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#3306304 - 03/09/14 04:07 PM Re: WHY leave trailer hitch on ! [Re: stockrex]
moving2 Offline


Registered: 11/30/05
Posts: 605
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: stockrex
I had people with their hitch back into me on 2 occasions, major damage one, bumper damage the other time.


I have NEVER backed into anyone, with or without a hitch, BUT...

I HAVE had people who weren't paying attention rear-end me at stop-lights on 2 occasions. 0 damage the first time (a forgettable 80's car with metal front bumper), and 0 damage the 2nd time (an 80's fullsize Chevy van). Due to bumper height differential, and the fact that my hitch sits just below my rear bumper and sticks out ~1in, I received no damage.

Some of you may find this hard to believe, but I do find that people are more cautious and do not tailgate me nearly as much with hitch vs. without. If you doubt this, your response doesn't mean much unless you've tried it. I live in LA, the car capital, and tailgaters are all over the place on the freeway no matter your speed or lane (and I'm a fast driver and not a left lane hog). My hitch has also clearly protected my vehicle in 2 accidents. I think I've made a pretty clear and practical case for why I leave mine on.

If it makes some of you feel better to ignore the practical reasons I've described to instead characterize it as a childish intimidation tactic, or to compare it to hanging testicles off a truck, then hey...whatever floats your boat, right? Your rants have little to do with why I leave my hitch on my truck, but it's fun to watch you get your ... in a bind over something that won't change, so keep those rants coming! smile
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#3306327 - 03/09/14 04:54 PM Re: WHY leave trailer hitch on ! [Re: stockrex]
ls1mike Offline


Registered: 06/14/08
Posts: 3175
Loc: In the Garage...
Originally Posted By: stockrex
I had people with their hitch back into me on 2 occasions, major damage one, bumper damage the other time.

what does the law say about it?

It varies from state to state. Here is Washington, it surprises, me there is no law about it.
However the law is clear on two things. If you back into someone you are at fault, if you don't have positive control of your vehicle and rear end someone you are at fault.

This the best you get from Washington state.
http://www.wsp.wa.gov/traveler/docs/cvd/170_129.pdf
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#3306332 - 03/09/14 05:04 PM Re: WHY leave trailer hitch on ! [Re: moving2]
FXjohn Offline


Registered: 05/25/07
Posts: 1236
Loc: NE Indiana
Originally Posted By: moving2
Originally Posted By: FXjohn

I use mine to tow. NOT to childishly try to intimidate people or cause damage to things or to pedestrians.


Again, Whizbanger may also use his to tow. Not sure why you are hesitant to consider this possibility. He also uses it to cause additional damage to people who rear-end him. Not sure why you make all those emotional assumptions about the latter.


because purposely wanting to cause damage is childish.

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#3306355 - 03/09/14 05:26 PM Re: WHY leave trailer hitch on ! [Re: FXjohn]
moving2 Offline


Registered: 11/30/05
Posts: 605
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: FXjohn

because purposely wanting to cause damage is childish.


FXjohn- and rear-ending someone is usually careless and stupid. I guess you guys are even then. smile
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#3306388 - 03/09/14 06:21 PM Re: WHY leave trailer hitch on ! [Re: moving2]
whip Offline


Registered: 03/03/05
Posts: 1606
Loc: ohio
Originally Posted By: moving2

a) People are more cautious when driving behind your vehicle when they see the hitch

Is this speculation on your part, or have there been studies to prove this? Speaking for myself, I've never once thought I should drive more cautious since the truck in front of me has the ball mount in place.
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#3306397 - 03/09/14 06:31 PM Re: WHY leave trailer hitch on ! [Re: whip]
moving2 Offline


Registered: 11/30/05
Posts: 605
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: moving2

a) People are more cautious when driving behind your vehicle when they see the hitch

Is this speculation on your part, or have there been studies to prove this? Speaking for myself, I've never once thought I should drive more cautious since the truck in front of me has the ball mount in place.


whip- neither. It is not speculation, and I have not searched for studies.

It is anecdotal evidence presented as my observations and experience over 12 years driving both with and without a hitch on busy LA freeways where tailgating is quite common. Drivers tailgate me less often, and leave more space when following me and when coming to a stop behind my vehicle; the difference is pretty noticeable. You may not be one of those drivers who is more cautious around a hitch, but my observation is that a lot of other drivers are. And, while I can understand your need for a scientific study, because the difference was readily apparent in my experience, that's all I need to know to leave the hitch on; not to mention the protection it has offered my vehicle in 2 accidents- see above.

If you're truly interested in obtaining statistically significant data, please do let me know what you find.
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#3306512 - 03/09/14 08:46 PM Re: WHY leave trailer hitch on ! [Re: moving2]
whip Offline


Registered: 03/03/05
Posts: 1606
Loc: ohio
Originally Posted By: moving2
Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: moving2

a) People are more cautious when driving behind your vehicle when they see the hitch

Is this speculation on your part, or have there been studies to prove this? Speaking for myself, I've never once thought I should drive more cautious since the truck in front of me has the ball mount in place.


whip- neither. It is not speculation, and I have not searched for studies.

It is anecdotal evidence presented as my observations and experience over 12 years driving both with and without a hitch on busy LA freeways where tailgating is quite common. Drivers tailgate me less often, and leave more space when following me and when coming to a stop behind my vehicle; the difference is pretty noticeable. You may not be one of those drivers who is more cautious around a hitch, but my observation is that a lot of other drivers are. And, while I can understand your need for a scientific study, because the difference was readily apparent in my experience, that's all I need to know to leave the hitch on; not to mention the protection it has offered my vehicle in 2 accidents- see above.

If you're truly interested in obtaining statistically significant data, please do let me know what you find.

So based on your experience, you would tailgate me if I taped pillows to my bumper?
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#3306530 - 03/09/14 09:05 PM Re: WHY leave trailer hitch on ! [Re: Kestas]
dlundblad Offline


Registered: 09/30/13
Posts: 2072
Loc: Indiana
Originally Posted By: Kestas
This is a timely thread. My coworker just reported an experience he had parking in a school parking lot that was compromised with mounds of snow. Coming out of the school he noticed one of his friends had a nice gash on the side of their car. It looked like it was opened with a can opener. They determined it must've been some schmuck with a trailer hitch who couldn't maneuver his truck properly. The car was legally parked.


How is this in any way the hitches fault? Hitch or not, I'm sure the driver of that truck would have still damaged your friends car.. especially if the damage was as bad as you described.
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#3306653 - 03/09/14 11:40 PM Re: WHY leave trailer hitch on ! [Re: whip]
moving2 Offline


Registered: 11/30/05
Posts: 605
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: whip

So based on your experience, you would tailgate me if I taped pillows to my bumper?


No, because I don't tend to tailgate people.

I would think you're both weird and grasping at straws, though. smirk
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#3306664 - 03/09/14 11:56 PM Re: WHY leave trailer hitch on ! [Re: moving2]
whip Offline


Registered: 03/03/05
Posts: 1606
Loc: ohio
Originally Posted By: moving2
Originally Posted By: whip

So based on your experience, you would tailgate me if I taped pillows to my bumper?


No, because I don't tend to tailgate people.

I would think you're both weird and grasping at straws, though. smirk

You said a hitch makes people back off because of the increased danger. Conversely, it would make sense that a soft target would make people drive closer because of the reduced danger. Based on your anecdotal evidence, that seems perfectly logical. How is that grasping at straws?
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#3306674 - 03/10/14 12:15 AM Re: WHY leave trailer hitch on ! [Re: whip]
moving2 Offline


Registered: 11/30/05
Posts: 605
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: whip
You said a hitch makes people back off because of the increased danger.


Correct so far, although I did not specify exactly why they are backing off, just that they are.


Originally Posted By: whip
Conversely, it would make sense that a soft target would make people drive closer because of the reduced danger.


Whoa. Make sense...to whom? Certainly not to me (see below). Moreover, my experience is with a trailer hitch, and not a pillow or anything else. Please do attach a pillow to your bumper and let us know what you find while I try to stop laughing. LOL


Originally Posted By: whip
Based on your anecdotal evidence, that seems perfectly logical. How is that grasping at straws?


Perfectly logical? It is about as far from perfect or logic as you can get. You are committing the most basic of logical fallacies here: denying the antecedent
...and that's exactly how it's both not logical AND grasping at straws. Please do let me know if you have any more questions, though.
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#3306901 - 03/10/14 09:08 AM Re: WHY leave trailer hitch on ! [Re: Traction]
supton Offline


Registered: 11/09/08
Posts: 5073
Loc: NH
I was reminded of this thread yesterday. At church we parked and walked up the sidewalk. Someone had parked their half-ton (maybe 3/4) in a nearby slot, backing into the slot. Wheels nearly to the curb, the bumper was at least a foot past the curb. Which meant their trailer hitch was halfway into the sidewalk. I thought of taking a pic but was running late. It was a large hitch, easily seen; but believe me, I've seen my kids (who were with me at the time) run into, well, everything. I could easily see my seven year old skip away from me (hey it's church, we're on a sidewalk) and right into that thing.

I understand that no one here backs up and onto the sidewalk like this, but I thought it was interesting nevertheless.
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#3307246 - 03/10/14 01:59 PM Re: WHY leave trailer hitch on ! [Re: moving2]
whip Offline


Registered: 03/03/05
Posts: 1606
Loc: ohio
Originally Posted By: moving2
Originally Posted By: whip
You said a hitch makes people back off because of the increased danger.


Correct so far, although I did not specify exactly why they are backing off, just that they are.


Originally Posted By: whip
Conversely, it would make sense that a soft target would make people drive closer because of the reduced danger.


Whoa. Make sense...to whom? Certainly not to me (see below). Moreover, my experience is with a trailer hitch, and not a pillow or anything else. Please do attach a pillow to your bumper and let us know what you find while I try to stop laughing. LOL


Originally Posted By: whip
Based on your anecdotal evidence, that seems perfectly logical. How is that grasping at straws?


Perfectly logical? It is about as far from perfect or logic as you can get. You are committing the most basic of logical fallacies here: denying the antecedent
...and that's exactly how it's both not logical AND grasping at straws. Please do let me know if you have any more questions, though.

you've been rear ended twice, and you say you don't tailgate. Once with the ball mount and once without. You say people tailgate less with the mount in place. I've never been rear ended, and I never leave the mount in place. You say my theories are full of holes, and yours are bulletproof. Carry on.
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#3307318 - 03/10/14 03:00 PM Re: WHY leave trailer hitch on ! [Re: whip]
moving2 Offline


Registered: 11/30/05
Posts: 605
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: whip
you've been rear ended twice, and you say you don't tailgate.


Correct- rear-ended at stoplights twice. And correct, I do not tailgate. It seems like you're attempting to draw a relationship between being rear-ended at stoplights and tailgating, but I'm just not seeing it. Please explain.


Originally Posted By: whip
Once with the ball mount and once without.


Incorrect. Both times were with hitch and ball mount.


Originally Posted By: whip
You say people tailgate less with the mount in place.


Correct.


Originally Posted By: whip
I've never been rear ended, and I never leave the mount in place.


Good for you. You've been luckier than I have when it comes to careless drivers at stoplights, apparently. But I'm really not sure what your point is. You seem to be trying to relate leaving my hitch in place to the probability of being rear-ended at stoplights. I don't see how leaving my hitch in place would increase or decrease my probability of being rear-ended, I believe it would only affect the damage a rear-ender might cause. I only mentioned the rear-enders to illustrate the fact that my hitch saved my vehicle from damage in those cases. Please explain the point you are trying to make here.


Originally Posted By: whip
You say my theories are full of holes, and yours are bulletproof. Carry on.


The difference is that I've responded to each of your points and I've pointed out specific faults in your arguments, while you haven't succeeded in doing the same. You also like to dodge my questions. You have yet to explain, for example, how your pillow example is logical as you claim, when it commits the most basic of logical fallacies. I'm all ears.
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#3307341 - 03/10/14 03:33 PM Re: WHY leave trailer hitch on ! [Re: moving2]
whip Offline


Registered: 03/03/05
Posts: 1606
Loc: ohio
Quote:

Originally Posted By: whip
Once with the ball mount and once without.


Incorrect. Both times were with hitch and ball mount.


Quote:
Originally Posted By: whip
You say people tailgate less with the mount in place.


Correct.

You don't see the contradiction in these two statements?

Quote:
I don't see how leaving my hitch in place would increase or decrease my probability of being rear-ended, I believe it would only affect the damage a rear-ender might cause.

You just said that exact thing in the quoted post above. If people tailgate less, your chances of being rear ended go down. Am I the only one that sees that?

Quote:
You have yet to explain, for example, how your pillow example is logical as you claim, when it commits the most basic of logical fallacies

I never made any claims about attachments on the rear of my vehicle affecting how those following me drive. That was your statement, and you've already contradicted it. I was simply asking questions.
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