2001 Honda Valkyrie, M1 4T 10W40 Syn Oil

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Good Afternoon To All,

My bike is a Honda Valkyrie, 6 cyl, 1520 cc.

Miles on bike: 31,792
Miles on oil: 2,487
Time on oil: 1 Year

Aluminum 5
Chromium 1
Iron 30
Copper 11
Lead 0
Tin 2
Moly 82
Nickel 0
Manganese 1
Silver 1
Titanium 0
Potassium 3
Boron 234
Silicon 5
Sodium 5
Calcium 1771
Magnesium 125
Phosphorus 1034
Zinc 1153
Barium 1

SUS Viscosity @ 210F 67.8
cST Viscosity @ 100C 12.38
Flashpoint in F 405
Fuel % Antifreeze % 0.0
Water % 0.0
Insolubles % 0.1
TBN 4.8

Blackstone Comments: "...this level or iron is really quite a lot for just 2,487 miles of oil use. It's showing excess wear at steel parts. Maybe something operational is at play-we'll just keep an eye on it for next time..."

I really don't know what to do on this, could the iron be a result on not warming up the engine long enough before taking off on the ride? I am just guessing?? Short trips??

Any help/ideas welcome.

RevRider
 
Thanks for the UOA RevRider!

It's definitely an interesting UOA with the higher quantities of iron and what appears to be elevated levels of copper. The simple things first, you're past break in period, well within OCI as far as mileage is concerned and changed after one year of use, fuel dilution is negligible, just barely out of spec. of a 40 grade, and the silicon amount of 5 PPM should be the anti-foaming additive from the oil manufacturer; so nothing initially jumps out at me as being a major contributor to the elevated wear levels.

I don't think not warming up the engine long enough prior to a ride would be an issue; unless it's cold-started and you're maintaining high rev's near redline that could cause the by-pass valve in your oil filter to be activated, allowing unfiltered oil to circulate which can lead to increased wear. Is this your first UOA or do you have any other's to draw a comparison? Otherwise, it could just be an anomaly, a particle streak, or there was more left over oil from your previous oil change that didn't get fully drained that skewed the results of your UOA. I'd do another UOA when the time comes to hopefully determine what might be the cause...if anything at all. Just curious, what oil did you use by the way?
 
Usually gold wings and such produce the lowest wear and contamination numbers. Ive seen mobil1 produce higher iron numbers in some bikes, Ive just not seen this with the big Honda tour motors.

with the milege on the bike it should be well broke in, and 2500 miles on the oil, Id expect iron to be more in the single digit or low teens at worst, and that's using the bike for track use.

So would I swap from mobil1 one? well I don't see its doing any better than an oil at half its price, like a 15w40 motorcraft or Delo.
 
Thanks for your input.

I used the Mobil 1 Motorcycle Oil, Synthetic, 10w/40.

No high rev's, at all, just a start, idle at about 1000 to 1200 rpms, probably less than a minute, and then off to ride.

I have about 6 other reports that I have done on the Valk and plan to review them.
 
I think I may have figured it out, let me know what you think.

Where I live, we have a terrible parking situation, and in order to have spot to park, you have to hold a space with another vehicle. I use the Valk to do this. The bike had at least 2 starts per day, once in the morning, and at evening, 6 days a week, 52 weeks in the year, which means I have at least 624 starts on the bike, during this mileage for the year.

I am thinking the wear is at start up?

Since Jan 1st, I've only been starting the bike to move it back into the garage, I don't start it to move it out, which will cut the start up's in half.

Is this a crazy thought or reasonable idea?

If it's these starts that is producing the wear, would I be better off with a 0w40 or 5w40 oil?

Also, at these current annual wear numbers, any idea how long an engine would last?

The bike runs beautifully, doesn't burn any oil, no abnormal sounds, it's a great bike.

Let me know what you think.

Thanks.
 
2487 miles in a one year OCI, and 624 starts... That tells me the average trip is 4 miles. This motor is in severe service and the oil may be accumulating combustion by products because enough heat is not developed to boil them off. It may need to get out for some multi-hour rides every couple of weeks to clean up the oil.
 
Thanks for the comment.

I changed the oil to Rotella 15w/40 and plan to keep the oil in service no more than 6 months.

Also, I have eliminated the twice a day starts to move the bike on the property. I had it out today for 65 mile run and plan to do this weekly.

I think this is the solution, at least I hope so.
 
Rev,
that is a whole lotta starts!!!
hopefully you have that battery on a tender each night.

with that many starts there is 2 ways to think about cold flow startup:
1) go thick like vr1 20w50(and you can handle it i know the temps) and keep all the parts coated in syrup that doesnt move between starts
or
2) go thin and the faster pumping. like castrol syntec 0w30 or SRT 5w40

it would take 2 years to prove. ug.

i see that Irvine in your Loc and just smile.
lots of great memories from my time in El Toro/Mission Viejo.

steve
 
Wow. That's a lot of iron. And your explanation explains it well.
Sunruh is the bike oil expert. I would,and do,follow his advice when it comes to oils in my bikes. He's helped dispel many a bike oil myth in my eyes and he'll always tell it to you straight,even if it's not what you want to hear.
 
My 2000 Valk Interstate had much lower Fe; but I rode it a LOT. Had 50k miles on it in just 4 years, which is well above industry averages. You're annual mileage is very typical of most bikers; they don't ride much overall.

I suspect it's your very frequent start cycles.

Consider running 10w-30 HDEO in either conventional or T5.
 
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Consider running 10w-30 HDEO in either conventional or T5.


why would you consider 10w30????

10w is not any better cold flow

sae30 is fine at hot if it was really sae30 but its not its poor 10w30

he lives in socal

imho thats about the worst he could pick.

he needs to radically change what he uses for his 6billion cold starts a year
or
not care about his higher than average iron due to all his cold starts.
 
Good Afternoon To All,

Thanks for the recent posts, they're appreciated.

I examined my previous reports, only the last two had the elevated iron in them, the previous 5 were very low in wear metals. I really pamper this bike, it's a show-room beauty. The last two reports covered the last 24 months of use, all of 2012 and 2013. It's only in these last two years that I had so many starts, without putting much mileage on the bike. I've eliminated those starts this year, it's not going to happen, which I hope resolves the issue.

Steve, a couple of questions:

1. I have Rotella 15w/40 in there now, been in about a week, do you think I should dump and replace with the Rotella 5w/40, or just wait for the next change? I've used the 5/40 in the past with excellent results.

2. Have I significantly shortened the life of the engine with this recent report of 30 parts of iron? I hope not.


Big thanks to all who took the time to review the report and respond, it's appreciated.

Frank
 
The heck with pampering it, ride the wheels off that thing. Sure, don't abuse it, but put some miles on. Garage queens seem to have more problems than often driven/ridden ones. Took delivery of my Ducati in January 2013, odometer will click over to 10,000 miles in a couple weeks if the weather doesn't go to shiat again like the past entire month, otherwise I'd already be north of 10K.
 
leave that oil in its great oil.

you have already proven its the huge amount of cold starts.

you have quit doing that.

so, no more issue!!!

heck no, 30ppm is not that high. its a lot higher than it WAS...but its not a motor killer
well in 400,000 miles it might be, but that would take you....uh 60 more years.
laugh.gif


dont worry about it at all!
 
Hi Lone Ranger,

Thanks for the note, I wish I could put that many miles on the bike, but work and I also have another bike, 2014 Road King, that the Valk splits time with.
smile.gif


My total riding, at least at this point in my life, will be about 6k roughly.

I've been riding for 34 years, used to have a job that I could ride the bike everyday, but that changed about 7 years ago.

I love Duc's.
 
Hi Steve,

You are the man! Thanks for easing my OCD problem with this report.
smile.gif


Your knowledge is appreciated, I know many on this board, including me, appreciate your expertise and the time you take to review reports and respond with helpful action plans.

Hope all is well with you!

Frank
 
frank,
no problem at all!!!
i enjoy it!

there are a lot of motors (go look in car uoa and diesel uoa) that throw out 30ppm iron. yes they typically go more miles per uoa but still.
remember its 30 / 1,000,000

the real question is, where is the iron coming from?
i'm gonna bet you have chromemoly rings or are they plain iron?
honda parts finder doesnt tell me.
could it be just iron off the starter gear(s) and not really operational parts? i am betting so since you saw the extra iron only with additional starts. again parts finder doesnt show me how it all goes together.

steve
 
Why try something different? Because doing the same thing and expecting a different result is silly ....

I wasn't suggesting that the 10w versus 10w was the crux of my comment; it was to try a differnt product and see if they results were more beneficial. It's called an experiment. It's not like Mobil 1 oils haven't occasionally shown a propensity to have slightly elevated Fe counts, after all ....

I offered a suggestion based upon my experience with 10w-30 HDEO in my GL1500 Valkyrie; a bike essentially the same as his. Was also very successful with the same lube in my 1998 GL1500 'Wing, too.

I would agree that his frequent starts are the major contributor. I was under the impression he wanted to try to bring down the Fe. Why not try something truly different? If he tries the HDEO, and it gives the same results in Fe, it's still "better" in my book, because it's far cheaper, presuming all other inputs are essentially constant for comparison.

Take it or leave it; I don't care.
 
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No worries bro, I would stay with a motorcycle specific oil though. I'd go with an XXw50 like Sunruh said will leave a film of oil behind more long term than an XXw40. Valvoline 4T Synthetic 20W50 looks interesting and some Wal Marts stock it, as does Autozone and Advance Auto Parts.

Originally Posted By: RevRider
Hi Lone Ranger,

Thanks for the note, I wish I could put that many miles on the bike, but work and I also have another bike, 2014 Road King, that the Valk splits time with.
smile.gif


My total riding, at least at this point in my life, will be about 6k roughly.

I've been riding for 34 years, used to have a job that I could ride the bike everyday, but that changed about 7 years ago.

I love Duc's.
 
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