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#3289560 - 02/21/14 01:18 PM '12 VW Passat TDI - Liqui Moly Top Tec 4200 5w-30
Nativefx Offline


Registered: 04/10/13
Posts: 10
Loc: Oregon
Ok so I did a couple of Oil Analysis on my '12 Passat TDI with mid 40k mileage. I pulled a sample at roughly 5k and then again on the same oil at 7.5K. The lab seems to be concerned about the high level of aluminum at 5K and even more concerned that it increased again at 7.5K. I'm new to these oil analysis reports so i'm hoping i can get some clarification about what I am seeing. My TDI currently has 68,500 miles and I am at about 5K on the current Liqui Moly Top-Tec 4200 5w-30 that my mechanic recommends.

Based on these results, should I be concerned? I didn't do an analysis when the dealer was using the VW recommended Castrol so i dont' have anything to compare.

Appreciate any input/clarification!

5K oil analysis report




Second Report on same oil after 7.5K miles


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#3289570 - 02/21/14 01:33 PM Re: '12 VW Passat TDI - Liqui Moly Top Tec 4200 5w-30 [Re: Nativefx]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 12333
Loc: Chicago, IL
Meh, it's an overpriced oil. I don't see the big draw to it. There are plenty of other oils that would be cheaper and work better. Clearly it isn't a good fit for your engine.
_________________________
2011.5 BMW M3 saloon ZCP
der stärkste buchstabe der welt
Castrol Edge Professional TWS 10w60 + Mahle OX 254D3

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#3289586 - 02/21/14 01:43 PM Re: '12 VW Passat TDI - Liqui Moly Top Tec 4200 5w-30 [Re: Nativefx]
Nativefx Offline


Registered: 04/10/13
Posts: 10
Loc: Oregon
dparm, I'm open to suggestions? I commute over 120 miles a day, so I put a lot of miles on very quickly. I wish I had gotten an analysis when the Castrol was using in the first 30K to compare. I've started looking at other oils offered on TDI sites and the prices seem to be fairly comparable so I'm not against changing brands. The Liqui Moly was just what my VW/Audi only mechanic uses regularly. I can have him source anything I want.

Also, any thoughts about why such high reading of aluminum???

thanks,

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#3289594 - 02/21/14 01:47 PM Re: '12 VW Passat TDI - Liqui Moly Top Tec 4200 5w-30 [Re: Nativefx]
Doog Offline


Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 3364
Loc: Ohio
I would try some Rotella T6 5w40 and see how you do. It is inexpensive enough at Walmart to change every 5-6000 miles.

"Also, any thoughts about why such high reading of aluminum???"

Yeah, something is coming apart.


Edited by Doog (02/21/14 01:49 PM)
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#3289608 - 02/21/14 02:06 PM Re: '12 VW Passat TDI - Liqui Moly Top Tec 4200 5w-30 [Re: Nativefx]
Jeffs2006EvoIX Offline


Registered: 02/28/10
Posts: 1250
Loc: Imperial Valley, California
Your post has caught my attention. The aluminum elevation is interesting.

I am not a TDI expert by no means, but Aluminum is mainly used in 2 areas on this engine to my knowledge. The Head, and the Turbo. Could be coming off the Turbo Journal. I cant think of anything in the head itself that would "wear". The Cams themselves are not Aluminum so I am not sure.

I would head over to the VW TDI forums and begin an inquiry in hopes someone can give you some insight. Then bring that info to your mechanic to see if it is of any concern.

Maybe try using M1 ESP 5w30 next oil change. Do a UOA after 3k miles to use as a comparison.

Jeff
_________________________
2013 VW GTI

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#3289612 - 02/21/14 02:13 PM Re: '12 VW Passat TDI - Liqui Moly Top Tec 4200 5w-30 [Re: Nativefx]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 12333
Loc: Chicago, IL
The full 504/507 list:

http://www.audiusa.com/content/dam/audiusa/Documents/Audi-1997-2012-Technical-Service-Bulletin.pdf


I'd also consider something like Mobil 1 ESP, Shell Rotella T6, or maybe Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck. Motul Specific 504 might be an interesting one to try.

The high aluminum points to a possible problem developing. I agree that the TDI forums are a good starting point, though I know we have some TDI guys on here who can chime in.
_________________________
2011.5 BMW M3 saloon ZCP
der stärkste buchstabe der welt
Castrol Edge Professional TWS 10w60 + Mahle OX 254D3

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#3289706 - 02/21/14 03:48 PM Re: '12 VW Passat TDI - Liqui Moly Top Tec 4200 5w-30 [Re: Doog]
Nativefx Offline


Registered: 04/10/13
Posts: 10
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: Doog
I would try some Rotella T6 5w40 and see how you do. It is inexpensive enough at Walmart to change every 5-6000 miles.

"Also, any thoughts about why such high reading of aluminum???"

Yeah, something is coming apart.


Doog, I don't believe Shell Rotella T6 meets the specifications for my TDI but I'll double check. I already use this in both my gf Audi 4.2 A6 and recently in my FX45 so it would be great if it was an option.

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#3289713 - 02/21/14 03:56 PM Re: '12 VW Passat TDI - Liqui Moly Top Tec 4200 5w-30 [Re: dparm]
Nativefx Offline


Registered: 04/10/13
Posts: 10
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: dparm
The full 504/507 list:

http://www.audiusa.com/content/dam/audiusa/Documents/Audi-1997-2012-Technical-Service-Bulletin.pdf


I'd also consider something like Mobil 1 ESP, Shell Rotella T6, or maybe Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck. Motul Specific 504 might be an interesting one to try.

The high aluminum points to a possible problem developing. I agree that the TDI forums are a good starting point, though I know we have some TDI guys on here who can chime in.


Thanks Dparm, I saw this on a TDI board so I was trying to find it again. As I suspected the 504/507 does not list Shell Rotella unfortunately. I may take a look at the M1 ESP or Pentosin. I'm at 5K now on the Liqui Moly so I think I will go ahead and change it and take a sample for another analysis. I'm hoping I don't have an issue with the turbo........

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#3289742 - 02/21/14 04:17 PM Re: '12 VW Passat TDI - Liqui Moly Top Tec 4200 5w-30 [Re: Nativefx]
rhhsiao Offline


Registered: 01/13/12
Posts: 96
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
You could also consider the Pennzoil Ultra Euro L 5W-30 which is available on Amazon.

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#3294703 - 02/26/14 08:20 AM Re: '12 VW Passat TDI - Liqui Moly Top Tec 4200 5w-30 [Re: Nativefx]
ac_tc Offline


Registered: 05/06/08
Posts: 492
Loc: sweden
Rotella doesent consider vw owners as customers anyway so
why certifie it againts vw demands?
- I have seen nomerous person usige rotella in vw´s even the
problematic pump dyse series with good results on these
forums.
Its your pick..
_________________________
-98 Dodge Durango 5.9 4*4 HDEO 10w- 40 ci4
-04 PT Cruser GT 10w- 40 HDEO ci4
-Everything else HDEO 10w- 40 ci4/STOU 10w-30/THF

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#3295681 - 02/26/14 10:31 PM Re: '12 VW Passat TDI - Liqui Moly Top Tec 4200 5w-30 [Re: Nativefx]
Philth Offline


Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 102
Loc: Scott AFB, IL
I could be wrong, but isn't 45k on the odometer still considered break in for a diesel? Is it possible the aluminum is still from the break in process?
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2012 Hyundai Genesis Sedan 3.8L GDI V-6
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#3295701 - 02/26/14 10:59 PM Re: '12 VW Passat TDI - Liqui Moly Top Tec 4200 5w-30 [Re: Nativefx]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 6988
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Op

Is the liqui-moly oil you used rated for your engine. As in is it diesel certified?
I know for a fact that liqui-moly is a premium oil company and is very highly regarded in Europe.
And I've used all of their additives and a few of their oils and I have been more than pleased with everything I've ever used,so I'm baffled as to why this report looks like it does,unless it doesn't meet or is approved for use in your engine.

I'd find an oil that meets your engines oem spec then run an interval and re-test


I just went to the liqui-moly site and looked at this oil. It says in the information that this oil is NOT suitable, nor approved for a tdi engine.
So considering this oil isn't approved and doesn't meet the required spec are we surprised by the outcome.

Copied from the liqui-moly site


Top Tec 4200 5 W-30
is a state-of-the-art all-season HC synthetic motor oil for gasoline and diesel-powered passenger cars including vehicles equipped with a diesel particulate filter in accordance with the Euro 4 emissions standard and extended maintenance intervals. Beside the universal usance in vehicles from the Audi/VW group (except TDI-Engines R5 and V10 before MY 06.2006) also suitable for BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Renault etc. The combination of unconventional base oils using HC synthetic technology, together with the latest additives, guarantees a motor oil that provides exceptional protection against wear and reduces oil and fuel consumption, while ensuring fast oil penetration of the engine. As such, oil change intervals of up to 30,000/50,000 km (or every 2 years for low mileage drivers) are possible as per the manufacturer's specifications.


It's plainly written except tdi engines.

So OP go buy the correct spec liqui-moly product and get another used oil analysis once your next interval comes around and I'll bet once you're using the right oil the used oil analysis comes back stellar.
Liqui-moly is a German product and they make something for every single European engine spec,so I'm positive they've got their stuff together and no way would a used oil analysis come back looking like this, in a European engine.
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#3295708 - 02/26/14 11:03 PM Re: '12 VW Passat TDI - Liqui Moly Top Tec 4200 5w-30 [Re: Clevy]
Philth Offline


Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 102
Loc: Scott AFB, IL
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Op

Is the liqui-moly oil you used rated for your engine. As in is it diesel certified?
I know for a fact that liqui-moly is a premium oil company and is very highly regarded in Europe.
And I've used all of their additives and a few of their oils and I have been more than pleased with everything I've ever used,so I'm baffled as to why this report looks like it does,unless it doesn't meet or is approved for use in your engine.

I'd find an oil that meets your engines oem spec then run an interval and re-test


I just went to the liqui-moly site and looked at this oil. It says in the information that this oil is NOT suitable, nor approved for a tdi engine.
So considering this oil isn't approved and doesn't meet the required spec are we surprised by the outcome.

Copied from the liqui-moly site


Top Tec 4200 5 W-30
is a state-of-the-art all-season HC synthetic motor oil for gasoline and diesel-powered passenger cars including vehicles equipped with a diesel particulate filter in accordance with the Euro 4 emissions standard and extended maintenance intervals. Beside the universal usance in vehicles from the Audi/VW group (except TDI-Engines R5 and V10 before MY 06.2006) also suitable for BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Renault etc. The combination of unconventional base oils using HC synthetic technology, together with the latest additives, guarantees a motor oil that provides exceptional protection against wear and reduces oil and fuel consumption, while ensuring fast oil penetration of the engine. As such, oil change intervals of up to 30,000/50,000 km (or every 2 years for low mileage drivers) are possible as per the manufacturer's specifications.


It's plainly written except tdi engines.

So OP go buy the correct spec liqui-moly product and get another used oil analysis once your next interval comes around and I'll bet once you're using the right oil the used oil analysis comes back stellar.
Liqui-moly is a German product and they make something for every single European engine spec,so I'm positive they've got their stuff together and no way would a used oil analysis come back looking like this, in a European engine.



LiquidMoly TopTec 4200 is an approved oil that meets VW 507 spec. Approved for all TDI engines with DPF installed.
_________________________
2012 Hyundai Genesis Sedan 3.8L GDI V-6
2012 Volkswagen Jetta TDI w/DSG

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#3295816 - 02/27/14 06:08 AM Re: '12 VW Passat TDI - Liqui Moly Top Tec 4200 5w-30 [Re: Philth]
DuckRyder Online   content


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 1389
Loc: Atlanta
Quote:
http://www.audiusa.com/content/dam/audiusa/Documents/Audi-1997-2012-Technical-Service-Bulletin.pdf


VW 504 00 / 507 00 | Liqui Moly Liqui Moly | Top Tec 4200 | SAE 5W-30


Top Tec 4200 meets the spec for a 12 Passat TDI and is an Approved VW / Audi oil.
_________________________
Robert
  • 1996 Acura 3.5RL
  • 2005 Honda Civic Sedan
  • 1972 Ford F100
  • 2012 Volkswagen Jetta TDi

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#3296618 - 02/27/14 06:22 PM Re: '12 VW Passat TDI - Liqui Moly Top Tec 4200 5w-30 [Re: ac_tc]
ottomatic Offline


Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 153
Loc: TN USA
Originally Posted By: ac_tc
Rotella doesent consider vw owners as customers anyway so
why certifie it againts vw demands?
- I have seen nomerous person usige rotella in vw´s even the
problematic pump dyse series with good results on these
forums.
Its your pick..


car requires low saps oil VW 507. oil

OP go here: http://forums.tdiclub.com/


Edited by ottomatic (02/27/14 06:22 PM)
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12 Jetta TDI Manual 10,875 mi
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