What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do?

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147_Grain you are welcome. I just learned about nano technology use in motor oil a few months ago and it caught me off guard concerning the advances that have been made.

Having this blown 325cc Polaris engine to use as a shop project for training the son and daughter (ages 16) on wrenching got me to thinking about how I could objectively see if nano technology use in engines was more than snake oil. Being in research of new info about new things I hit upon this project with Liqui Moly Ceratec that would require the tear down of an engine AFTER Ceratec use to have any real meaning to myself or others.

Since I have learned about Archoil. Have you read about this company. It seems they are just breaking into retail sales (not sure why) but have years of history in supplying nano technology for ships, locomotives and other very heavy equipment.

If you will read about Archoil AR9300 and share your thoughts as to if it may be better or worse than Ceratec I would appreciate it. I have purchased a small bottle of AR6200 fuel additive but due to winter storms and lack of time and money have not bought any of their motor oil additives like AR9100 or AR9300 to use/test.

In time I will try to work with the kids to pull together photos the best we can as how Ceratec actually did coat some parts with a hard smooth new surface. Folks we are not talking about adding metal to any degree. From reading it seems like a coating may only be a couple microns thick but that would mean no metal to metal contact of engine parts on cold starts or due to sheared motor oil.

Thanks again for your thoughts on our project and AR9300 from just reading about it.

It pains me to see how some multilevel marketing groups are abusing the marketing of nano technology in that they sound like snake oil salesman.

I have proved to myself Ceratec is not snake oil and would like to see what companies offer the most in the way of nano based technology to reduce engine friction.

Thanks Clevy for your post when I was writing mine. I too am bother by those who call everything new 'snake oil' because they are unable/unwilling to prove it one way or another.

I learned many years ago when a company with a track record like Liqui Moly or Archoil typically have evidence that their marketing statements can be supported in a court of law.
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Thanks for the write up Gale. I have a few observations/questions based on reading up on the product, although I haven't tried it. I'm wondering if it is a good idea once an engine is treated with it, not to introduce MoS2 and just add a small maint dose of Ceratec at each OCI after the initial full bottle treatment? Archoil which has a similar product recommends dosing at each OCI IIRC which is why I'm leaning toward a main't dose of Ceratec.

I also think that once an engine has been treated with MoS2 Ceratec won't be able to coat/plate the surfaces because MoS2 has already done its own coating/plating. In other words once you start with Ceratec stick with it, the same holds true for MoS2. This is just my opinion based on reading up on the product and nothing more.
 
demarpaint there is a post claiming to be from Liqui Moly tech that stated to use Ceratec then use MoS2 for the next 2-3 OCI then Ceratec again.

You may be on to something based on info from Archoil about their AR9300 that is made to sound like Ceratec on steroids.
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Archoil suggest AR2300 a few 1000 miles before an oil change then new oil and add AR9300. It sounds like the cleaner the surface the better it attracts/holds both MOS2 and nano variations of Boron. Note in your post you are talking about AR9100 which is called a second generation nano boron additive.

You must compare Ceratec to AR9300 to be apples to apples because AR9300 does built a film that does NOT leave with an oil drain.
AR9100 leaves the engine shortly after an OCI.

Your logic to use Ceratec as labelled the first time then a fractional dose after each oil change does make sense to me. Should something start to fail the Ceratec would be there to start coating new bare metal.

I noticed the nice finish on both steel and aluminum bearing surfaces. Ceratec does stop building thickness at some point based on what I read yet it does wear off.

We really can only go the info passed out by the makers of this nano technology.

There is no way of proving the validity of its usage without tearing down an engine after 3K miles or what ever mileage the maker claims max film thickness occurs.

While our testing does not give a lot of info but now at least I know Ceratec does lay down a hard shiny film IF there is heat and pressure points.

I will look at the timing chain and see if it looks or feels different. One concern I have that could be an issue was the bearing contact with the rough crankshaft was making some metal and do not know if the oil filter was catching it all or not during our 11.5 run time.

Hope we will read more tear down results by others in 2014.

I am sold on the fact Ceratec works and would extend that to include other nano tech usage in lubrication do work to reduce friction. Archoil states the use of AR9100 (really big with the Ford 6.0, etc diesels) or AR9300 with double the OCI. That alone would cover its cost.

The below is from GEARSolutions:

"These two methods, mechanical and chemical reduction of friction, can also be combined. Cera Tec from LIQUI MOLY is such a product. Originally it was developed for use in motor oil in cars, but it is also beneficial in transmissions. Instead of molybdenum sulfide, it contains minute ceramic particles with a hexagonal boron nitride base. These not only increase performance, they also provide an additional advantage: They adhere so tenaciously to the metal, that they even withstand an oil change providing virtually the same performance in the new oil. The result is a highly effective wear protection additive with exceptional resistance to high temperature and pressure. Its use is not limited to engines, because it can also be used in compressors, pumps, and transmissions. The ceramic particles are smaller than 0.5 μm, allowing them to pass easily through the oil filter."

"However, the use of LIQUI MOLY is not limited only to large transmissions. The vehicles used in the mines now also benefit from the extra protection provided by LIQUI MOLY, and this pays off. “We used to have to change the motor oil in our excavators and dumpers every 250 hours, and now only every 500 hours,” according to Graven. In the meantime, more than a dozen mines in South Africa benefit from the additional protection."

http://www.gearsolutions.com/article/detail/6177/protecting-massive-gears is the source.
 
Hi Gale-The reason why I suggested sticking with either MoS2 or Ceratec was based on a string of emails I had with someone from Lubro Moly. Then reading here and chatting with my buddy Clevy we discovered the info to be a bit confusing. At any rate both Ceratec and Archoil's products interest me, and is worth further investigation. There was also talk of Ceramic products fouling spark plugs some time ago as well.

With regard to AR9300, is it even available in the USA to buy? Thanks-
 
9300 is available but it is $50 to mix with 4-5 liters of engine oil. Need to call them and ask for it.
 
Originally Posted By: a2gtinut
9300 is available but it is $50 to mix with 4-5 liters of engine oil. Need to call them and ask for it.


Good to know.
 
I put a can of Lubro Moly in the crankcase of my Venza last month. It is hard to determine, from the drivers seat, any performance enhansment. However, when is too much moly a bad thing? The quote for an internet site makes this statement...

"Also, molybdenum compounds in motor oils can degrade and
cause bearing corrosion and is particularly aggressive towards copper. In almost all cases, any engine oil
formula having "moly" will also contain a copper deactivator which will protect bearings from the moly
compounds. The only problem, the copper deactivator decomposes at relatively low temperatures and looses
it's potency after a few thousand miles, which can be seen in used oil analyses of moly rich oils having higher

than normal copper levels. Link Additionally, there is documentation in various SAE publications showing a
vast number of different species of moly friction modifiers, some providing better wear than fuel savings and
vice-versa, and unfortunately, there is no easy way to determine how a friction modified oil is formulated
other than to assume that a GF-4 or energy conserving oil is most likely to bias fuel savings for lower wear
protection . . ."

I would be interested in a discussion on the merits of the above quote.
 
Originally Posted By: Tron1
I put a can of Lubro Moly in the crankcase of my Venza last month. It is hard to determine, from the drivers seat, any performance enhansment. However, when is too much moly a bad thing? The quote for an internet site makes this statement... "Also, molybdenum compounds in motor oils can degrade and
cause bearing corrosion and is particularly aggressive towards copper. In almost all cases... "

Just as a point of clarification, you are talking about Liqui-Moly Oil Additive product - the L-M MoS2 additive? This additive product was formerly known as L-M Anti Friction.

If you are referring to Liqui-Moly Ceratec, which was the subject of this thread, it does not appear to contain MoS2. The 'Liqui-Moly' part of this product's title is simply the company's current name.

If there's a moderator in the house, maybe he could make this a new thread.
 
Here's a few links:

Cera Tec

http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/produktdb.nsf/id/en_3721.html?Opendocument&land=DE

http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/mediendb.nsf/gfx2/3721%20Cera%20Tec_EN.pdf/$file/3721%20Cera%20Tec_EN.pdf


MoS2 Lubro Moly

http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/produktdb.nsf/id/en_1011.html?Opendocument&land=DE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qMJ1Fl1B77E


Additive Overview

http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/mediendb.nsf/gfx/2D2A7C2D3D0CCA42C12573DA00315AAF/$file/5616.pdf
 
Originally Posted By: gus7
graphite is BAD news for a lub ...it wear down like a lapping job and ceramics ....[censored] worst than graphite pour in sand !!!



You can expect to be taken seriously can you
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Why would one add another borate when you already have something similar to this in fully formulated motor oils?


Borate Ester


^^^How do we know for sure that ALL fully formulated motor oils contain this already??
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Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Why would one add another borate when you already have something similar to this in fully formulated motor oils?

Borate Ester


How do we know for sure that ALL fully formulated motor oils contain this already?


Well, you could look here. Sadly, the use (or not) of boron is all over the landscape - 2ppm or less in Lucas, Royal Purple, Pennzoil Platinum, up to 245ppm or more in Mobile Super Synthetic, Kendall GT-1 and Shell Formula. If you're a Pennzoil fan but have to have your daily boron, then get Pennzoil Ultra (152ppm); Mobil-1 checks in at 108ppm.
 
I created an account here to ask a few questions on this product. Is liqui-moly ceratec OK to use with a magnetic drain plug? I am planning to change my oil soon and should I use this in conjuction with MOS2 when I do the oil change? Or should I just use ceratec and then on the next oil changes use MOS2 and use ceratec instead at every 30k miles? (Ceratec at every 30k miles and MOS2 every oil change?)
 
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Originally Posted By: Jteran5
I created an account here to ask a few questions on this product. Is liqui-moly ceratec OK to use with a magnetic drain plug? I am planning to change my oil soon and should I use this in conjuction with MOS2 when I do the oil change? Or should I just use ceratec and then on the next oil changes use MOS2 and use ceratec instead at every 30k miles? (Ceratec at every 30k miles and MOS2 every oil change?)

No problem on magnetic drain plugs.

Why not stick with one product or the other and follow the label directions?

Both products - L-M Ceratec and L-M MoS2 Anti-Friction - have their followers and detractors. Ceratec provides wear protection by adding a ceramic coating to your engines friction surfaces. MoS2 fills in the pores of the metal. MoS2 has been in use for a much longer period and the industrial benefits of MoS2 are well known - automotive benefits less so. Ceratec is a new kid on the block, much more pricey and its benefits may last longer.

Big question: What are you trying to accomplish? If you have a specific goal you wish to accomplish (e.g. reduce oil consumption past the rings), then you may get a more meaningful response.

Please note that if this thread continues for any length of time, someone (who has never used either additive) will jump in and announce that you don't need either product. Strangely enough, they might be right if your engine is well ordered, gets regular oil changes, etc.
 
Originally Posted By: dave5358
Originally Posted By: Jteran5
I created an account here to ask a few questions on this product. Is liqui-moly ceratec OK to use with a magnetic drain plug? I am planning to change my oil soon and should I use this in conjuction with MOS2 when I do the oil change? Or should I just use ceratec and then on the next oil changes use MOS2 and use ceratec instead at every 30k miles? (Ceratec at every 30k miles and MOS2 every oil change?)

No problem on magnetic drain plugs.

Why not stick with one product or the other and follow the label directions?

Both products - L-M Ceratec and L-M MoS2 Anti-Friction - have their followers and detractors. Ceratec provides wear protection by adding a ceramic coating to your engines friction surfaces. MoS2 fills in the pores of the metal. MoS2 has been in use for a much longer period and the industrial benefits of MoS2 are well known - automotive benefits less so. Ceratec is a new kid on the block, much more pricey and its benefits may last longer.

Big question: What are you trying to accomplish? If you have a specific goal you wish to accomplish (e.g. reduce oil consumption past the rings), then you may get a more meaningful response.

Please note that if this thread continues for any length of time, someone (who has never used either additive) will jump in and announce that you don't need either product. Strangely enough, they might be right if your engine is well ordered, gets regular oil changes, etc.




Why does one need to have smoothing wrong to use a additive? This reasoning is getting old. I have nothing wrong, what I want to do is prevent less wear, and that what this is advertised to do. I like to take care of my things, nothing wrong with them, I am not trying to "solve" any problem, in fact I am trying to prevent problems.

I have used both extensively in all motorized applications, Im running mos2 in my bmw m3, after this run I am putting ceratec in it, I want to do a lab test before ceratec to see if it prevents a lot less wear. I run MoS2 every oil change after ceratec but this time wanted to do a before and after to see if I am actually preventing less wear.
 
Originally Posted By: dave5358

Why not stick with one product or the other and follow the label directions?

Both products - L-M Ceratec and L-M MoS2 Anti-Friction - have their followers and detractors. Ceratec provides wear protection by adding a ceramic coating to your engines friction surfaces. MoS2 fills in the pores of the metal. MoS2 has been in use for a much longer period and the industrial benefits of MoS2 are well known - automotive benefits less so. Ceratec is a new kid on the block, much more pricey and its benefits may last longer.

Big question: What are you trying to accomplish? If you have a specific goal you wish to accomplish (e.g. reduce oil consumption past the rings), then you may get a more meaningful response.

Please note that if this thread continues for any length of time, someone (who has never used either additive) will jump in and announce that you don't need either product. Strangely enough, they might be right if your engine is well ordered, gets regular oil changes, etc.


I just picked up a 2014 Subaru Sti. I want to get the most life out of it. I want the best protection for the engine. I figured that ceratec was a good additive to use every 30k as instructed and that the MoS2 was a good additive to use every oil change.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Jteran5
Originally Posted By: dave5358

Why not stick with one product or the other and follow the label directions?

Both products - L-M Ceratec and L-M MoS2 Anti-Friction - have their followers and detractors. Ceratec provides wear protection by adding a ceramic coating to your engines friction surfaces. MoS2 fills in the pores of the metal. MoS2 has been in use for a much longer period and the industrial benefits of MoS2 are well known - automotive benefits less so. Ceratec is a new kid on the block, much more pricey and its benefits may last longer.

Big question: What are you trying to accomplish? If you have a specific goal you wish to accomplish (e.g. reduce oil consumption past the rings), then you may get a more meaningful response.

Please note that if this thread continues for any length of time, someone (who has never used either additive) will jump in and announce that you don't need either product. Strangely enough, they might be right if your engine is well ordered, gets regular oil changes, etc.


I just picked up a 2014 Subaru Sti. I want to get the most life out of it. I want the best protection for the engine. I figured that ceratec was a good additive to use every 30k as instructed and that the MoS2 was a good additive to use every oil change.



You are doing the right thing. Reduce friction, reduce wear.....and the pro's are endless.
 
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