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#3284578 - 02/16/14 08:35 PM Re: Mobil 1 0-40 or Mobil 1 Turbo diesel truck 5-40 [Re: fonecord2]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 6515
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: fonecord2
I would to limit start up wear. I would need to see more uoa's before I jump in


I don't think start up wear is a huge issue.
Think about it. A bike is ridden in warmer temps. A 20w-50 or 15w-40 isn't thick in temps above 0c when most riders will be on their bikes,so a 5w-xx or 0w-xx isn't really needed.
I've used castrol 5w-50 and Mobil 1 5w-50 in my Harley. I never noticed any consumption but the noise was just too much and I drained them within 1000 miles.
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#3284579 - 02/16/14 08:38 PM Re: Mobil 1 0-40 or Mobil 1 Turbo diesel truck 5-40 [Re: skully]
pwr2tow Offline


Registered: 02/02/07
Posts: 95
Loc: -38*F winter, 118*F summer
Originally Posted By: skully
this thread is a joke, correct. why would you not use a 20/50 syn ma rated oil regardless of manufacturer. you should not be useing an oil less than a 15 in that engine. is there something that you know that everyone else doesnt? who in there right mind would use a 0 or 5 weight oil in a hd air cooled engine let alone contemplate it. ridiculous!


After reading Harley Davidson website forums for many years. Reading v-twin website forums for many years. Been a BITOG member for many years, reading and studying oil compositions and seeing chemical (additive packages) change over many years I'll respond to your post as follows.

Thank you for your response but please put me on your ignore list.

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#3284591 - 02/16/14 08:48 PM Re: Mobil 1 0-40 or Mobil 1 Turbo diesel truck 5-40 [Re: Clevy]
pwr2tow Offline


Registered: 02/02/07
Posts: 95
Loc: -38*F winter, 118*F summer
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: fonecord2
I would to limit start up wear. I would need to see more uoa's before I jump in


I don't think start up wear is a huge issue.
Think about it. A bike is ridden in warmer temps. A 20w-50 or 15w-40 isn't thick in temps above 0c when most riders will be on their bikes,so a 5w-xx or 0w-xx isn't really needed.
I've used castrol 5w-50 and Mobil 1 5w-50 in my Harley. I never noticed any consumption but the noise was just too much and I drained them within 1000 miles.


But I have to ask was the noise from synthetic or from the lower first multi-grade number?

Lots of people say they can hear more engine noise from a Harley with synthetics and less engine noise from conventional oils.

Would a cold 0 or 5 grade flow heavier then a hot 40 grade?

The only problem I see with using a wider spread multi-grade oil is that it could shear down faster. Is that still a problem with a true group IV synthetic?

Not trying to be a smart alex by asking questions, it's those questions that help educate someone like me. I had to throw that in here because it seems like I don't have the right tact when it comes to asking questions. LOL.

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#3284599 - 02/16/14 08:52 PM Re: Mobil 1 0-40 or Mobil 1 Turbo diesel truck 5-40 [Re: Clevy]
pwr2tow Offline


Registered: 02/02/07
Posts: 95
Loc: -38*F winter, 118*F summer
Originally Posted By: Clevy
K. I built my Harley so I'm gonna take a stab at why 0w-xx aren't a good idea.
I noticed that my pistons weren't as tight in the jugs compared to any v8 I've ever had a hand on. So that tells me a 0w in a Harley is gonna get consumed at start up, until the piston expands enough to tighten in the bores,which is why a 20w or 15w is suggested.
I'm just using some sense and experience although I could be wrong.


Sorry I missed your first post. Makes perfect sense to me. But now I have to ask what about the rest of the tolerances within the engine such as bearings, journals, valve guides etc. etc.

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#3284600 - 02/16/14 08:56 PM Re: Mobil 1 0-40 or Mobil 1 Turbo diesel truck 5-40 [Re: pwr2tow]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 6515
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: pwr2tow
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: fonecord2
I would to limit start up wear. I would need to see more uoa's before I jump in


I don't think start up wear is a huge issue.
Think about it. A bike is ridden in warmer temps. A 20w-50 or 15w-40 isn't thick in temps above 0c when most riders will be on their bikes,so a 5w-xx or 0w-xx isn't really needed.
I've used castrol 5w-50 and Mobil 1 5w-50 in my Harley. I never noticed any consumption but the noise was just too much and I drained them within 1000 miles.


But I have to ask was the noise from synthetic or from the lower first multi-grade number?

Lots of people say they can hear more engine noise from a Harley with synthetics and less engine noise from conventional oils.

Would a cold 0 or 5 grade flow heavier then a hot 40 grade?

The only problem I see with using a wider spread multi-grade oil is that it could shear down faster. Is that still a problem with a true group IV synthetic?

Not trying to be a smart alex by asking questions, it's those questions that help educate someone like me. I had to throw that in here because it seems like I don't have the right tact when it comes to asking questions. LOL.


K. I'll answer to the best of my ability.
Yes a 0w-40 is thicker cold than a sae 40 is hot,however the hot oils additive package is activated when hot so its protecting better than the cold 0w-40.
As far as the noise goes I've tried everything in my bike,from synthetics to hdeo's and the least noisy was royal purple automotive 20w-50,second least noisy is the rotella that's in it now.
I've used m1 15w-50,20w-50 v-twin,amsoil 20w-50 and more than I can remember.
I liked the motorex 10w-60 stuff but it was way too costly.
I've got to give honourable mention to Amsoil sae60. I've got 10 quarts left I'll use up this summer. It was a really nice oil running in my bike.
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#3284606 - 02/16/14 09:01 PM Re: Mobil 1 0-40 or Mobil 1 Turbo diesel truck 5-40 [Re: pwr2tow]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 6515
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: pwr2tow
Originally Posted By: Clevy
K. I built my Harley so I'm gonna take a stab at why 0w-xx aren't a good idea.
I noticed that my pistons weren't as tight in the jugs compared to any v8 I've ever had a hand on. So that tells me a 0w in a Harley is gonna get consumed at start up, until the piston expands enough to tighten in the bores,which is why a 20w or 15w is suggested.
I'm just using some sense and experience although I could be wrong.


Sorry I missed your first post. Makes perfect sense to me. But now I have to ask what about the rest of the tolerances within the engine such as bearings, journals, valve guides etc. etc.


Everything tightens up. But air cooled engines run much hotter than their liquid cooled counterparts which is why I think the minimum 40 grade should be adhered to.
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#3284703 - 02/16/14 10:41 PM Re: Mobil 1 0-40 or Mobil 1 Turbo diesel truck 5-40 [Re: pwr2tow]
skully Offline


Registered: 11/30/13
Posts: 35
Loc: NYS
Originally Posted By: pwr2tow
Originally Posted By: skully
this thread is a joke, correct. why would you not use a 20/50 syn ma rated oil regardless of manufacturer. you should not be useing an oil less than a 15 in that engine. is there something that you know that everyone else doesnt? who in there right mind would use a 0 or 5 weight oil in a hd air cooled engine let alone contemplate it. ridiculous!


After reading Harley Davidson website forums for many years. Reading v-twin website forums for many years. Been a BITOG member for many years, reading and studying oil compositions and seeing chemical (additive packages) change over many years I'll respond to your post as follows.

Thank you for your response but please put me on your ignore list.


id like to respond by stating that im not impressed by your years of practical hands on experience comprised of reading internet forums and your p.eng degree in mech/chemical from bitog. id ask you to add in your profiles signature line that your are neither competant nor qualified to give any professional advice regarding lubrication of internal combustion engines of any kind(air/water cooled) and that all information put forward by you is unsubstantiated and unproven.

that said, people pay alot of money for there motorcycles and pleasure vehicles, for someone to come across this thread and posts within and take them to be true, you should be held liable for there damages. i encourage and urge people to use the lubrication set forth by there vehicles/engines designers/manufacturers and use oils that meet or exceed there minimum/maximum viscosity/quality ratings but having no issues by using equally viable lubricants from different manufacturers that meet the standards of such. dont poison the pool with misinformation. believe me when i say this, i do not need to put you on any list of mine because i neither care what you have to say or believe, i shall not post back to this ridiculous thread further. skully

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#3284777 - 02/17/14 02:30 AM Re: Mobil 1 0-40 or Mobil 1 Turbo diesel truck 5-40 [Re: pwr2tow]
Reg# 43897 Offline


Registered: 11/28/04
Posts: 680
Loc: Fredericton
...and good riddance to you. Feel free to leave the rest of the Forum, too, while your at it. Your 1st response has already told us that you have nothing to say of value.

Don't go away mad, just go away.

John.

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#3284799 - 02/17/14 05:17 AM Re: Mobil 1 0-40 or Mobil 1 Turbo diesel truck 5-40 [Re: pwr2tow]
rossn2 Offline


Registered: 02/24/04
Posts: 290
Loc: Central Texas
OP trying to void the warranty on the bike? Use neither of the oils listed in your first post.

If you're looking for cheap alternative in Summer use 20w-50 like VR-1 in Engine and Transmission, 15w-40 in Primary and winter Rotella 15w-40 on engine and Primary with 20w-50 transmission. But you're not riding in winter (by your first post winter set in and you parked the bike. ) or you could try Mobil V Twin 20W-50 all three holes.

I run 20w-50 year round in Engine and Primary with 75-90 gear oil in tranny, and coldest I've ridden is 19 in the morning on way to work with no oil related issues. Lot's of early morning (6aM) in the 20's rides to work..

Unless you're conducting UOA's on your bike, everyone's suggestions are hearsay..



Edited by rossn2 (02/17/14 05:28 AM)
_________________________
2013 SuperCrew Lariat 4x4 EcoBoost V6
2013 Hyundai Elantra 4cyl
2013 CVO Ultra, '13 Tri Glide,'11 Electra Glide Limited,'08 Road King

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#3284806 - 02/17/14 05:49 AM Re: Mobil 1 0-40 or Mobil 1 Turbo diesel truck 5-40 [Re: rossn2]
rossn2 Offline


Registered: 02/24/04
Posts: 290
Loc: Central Texas
Quote:
"If it is necessary to add oil and Harley-Davidson oil is not available, use an oil certified for diesel engines. Acceptable diesel engine oil designations include: SH, CH-4, CI-4 and CJ-4.

The preferred viscosities for the diesel engine oils in descending order are: 20W50, 15W40 and 10W40."


This is incase of emergency and the regular 20w-50 oil in not available. The owner's manual even states to change back to correct oil vis. as quick as possible..
_________________________
2013 SuperCrew Lariat 4x4 EcoBoost V6
2013 Hyundai Elantra 4cyl
2013 CVO Ultra, '13 Tri Glide,'11 Electra Glide Limited,'08 Road King

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#3284892 - 02/17/14 08:18 AM Re: Mobil 1 0-40 or Mobil 1 Turbo diesel truck 5-40 [Re: rossn2]
BigCahuna Offline


Registered: 09/29/09
Posts: 1097
Loc: Deep in the heart of Jersey
Originally Posted By: rossn2
Quote:
"If it is necessary to add oil and Harley-Davidson oil is not available, use an oil certified for diesel engines. Acceptable diesel engine oil designations include: SH, CH-4, CI-4 and CJ-4.

The preferred viscosities for the diesel engine oils in descending order are: 20W50, 15W40 and 10W40."


This is incase of emergency and the regular 20w-50 oil in not available. The owner's manual even states to change back to correct oil vis. as quick as possible..
They put that in there so you don't realise that using diesel oil works as good as their oil, and is alot cheaper. Bottom line is they want you to keep over paying for their nothing special oil.,,

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#3285392 - 02/17/14 04:40 PM Re: Mobil 1 0-40 or Mobil 1 Turbo diesel truck 5-40 [Re: BigCahuna]
Dieselsrule Offline


Registered: 04/19/07
Posts: 83
Loc: nc
I've run 0W-40 m1 in my suburban and a kohler powered garden tractor. Suburban did fine but the kohler drank so much 0W-40 that I went back to m1 15W-50. Been runnin 5W-40 m1 in my cummins dodge for over 100,000 mi. with great UOA's. So I got both oils in the garage but it never occurred to me to put them in my Harley.
OP, I would really like to see you run both of these oils in your Harley and let us know the results. If the 0W-40 did OK then maybe you could try 0W-30 or 0W-20. This would tell us how thin you could go before it started clicking and/or drinking. Who knows you might teach us something.
_________________________
1998 Cummins Dodge
2006 Jetta TDI
Cub Cadet Kubota Diesel
2009 Harley Lowrider
1993 Suburban

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#3285458 - 02/17/14 05:50 PM Re: Mobil 1 0-40 or Mobil 1 Turbo diesel truck 5-40 [Re: rossn2]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 6515
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: rossn2
Quote:
"If it is necessary to add oil and Harley-Davidson oil is not available, use an oil certified for diesel engines. Acceptable diesel engine oil designations include: SH, CH-4, CI-4 and CJ-4.

The preferred viscosities for the diesel engine oils in descending order are: 20W50, 15W40 and 10W40."


This is incase of emergency and the regular 20w-50 oil in not available. The owner's manual even states to change back to correct oil vis. as quick as possible..



I'm using rotella t conventional 15w-40 in my Harley's engine and primary right now. I've got shockproof heavy in the tranny. That shockproof is a must have in the tranny. Shifting is night and day better with it.
As far as knowing what can get you through in a pinch all I can say is every gas station on earth has a diesel rated hdeo on the shelf so that would be my first choice in a pinch.

As far as m1 v-twin 20w-50 goes my bike was more noisy with it than anything else I used in it. Even the 5w-50 was less noisy. I don't like that stuff at all.
I'm really happy with rotella. It's my spring and fall oil now for life. I'm going to use up my sae 60 amsoil for summer.
If anyone is interested in used oil analysis of rotella in a 106 ci built and cammed Harley I think I'll do one at 2500 miles,just to help the data on its use in Harley's.
I'll start a thread for it in the spring.
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#3286541 - 02/18/14 06:49 PM Re: Mobil 1 0-40 or Mobil 1 Turbo diesel truck 5-40 [Re: pwr2tow]
pwr2tow Offline


Registered: 02/02/07
Posts: 95
Loc: -38*F winter, 118*F summer
I remember way back when, when multi-grade oils were introduced to the masses. Everyone thought engine longevity would suffer due to using 10-30 oil instead of straight 30 grade especially in warmer climates. Then my god what the heck were people thinking using that ultra thin 5-30 in the 80's your going to wreck your engine!!!

Fast forward to today and we see 0-20 recommended.

Todays oils and there additive packages are far superior to the 60's and 70's. Yet people still have the same mentality today they did back then. Time will tell, as they say.

Oh and Skully I have run 0-40 in a shared sump motorcycle without any catastrophic failures. And just to refresh your memory we do get into the 100's*F up here in North Dakota. I was wrenching and fixing things on the farm when I was 8 years old back in the 60's when you had to fix it because you couldn't afford to by new. I am ASE certified. I do wrench my own vehicles, complete vehicles not just the engine. I have gone to oil classes put on by companies. My father taught me to think outside the box before thinking outside the box was a common household saying.

Now if you'll just move on, take your bashing and hating some where else I would appreciate it. This forum and it's members deserves WAY more respect then what your giving it.

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#3287440 - 02/19/14 04:49 PM Re: Mobil 1 0-40 or Mobil 1 Turbo diesel truck 5-40 [Re: pwr2tow]
Reg# 43897 Offline


Registered: 11/28/04
Posts: 680
Loc: Fredericton
Well put...

I would be interested in that Rotella UOA Clevy. My FJR has a shared sump full of regular Rotella 15w-40 waiting for Spring. Have used mostly RTS & lately, a run of T5 for blanks & giggles.

John.

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