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#3284910 - 02/17/14 08:35 AM Risks associated with double dose Ceratec
Fuzz1 Offline


Registered: 05/01/08
Posts: 66
Loc: Cape Town , South Africa
Hey guys.

My question is, what is the risk of double dosing Liqui Moly Ceratec. This is, adding two bottles instead of one to the engine in a sump that contains 4.5L of oil.

I know the bottle says that optimum dosage is at 6%, but I have a little track day car that has seen many days of abuse on the circuit. The last one most recently in 36C heat.

Would a double dose prevent bearing wear under severe loads a bit better ? Can it help with the oil thinning when running hard and hot to protect the engine ?

Also, would the double dose increase solids to much and hamper oil flow, seeing Ceratec contains not only Boron Nitride as well as ZDDP and Moly ?

Or would it simply be a case of wasting money and receiving marginal returns / improvement over one bottle.

Your comments and insights would be appreciated.

Thanks.


Edited by Fuzz1 (02/17/14 08:42 AM)

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#3284914 - 02/17/14 08:40 AM Re: Risks associated with double dose Ceratec [Re: Fuzz1]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 20720
Loc: NY
You can email them your questions if you go to their website, and get an answer directly from them. They are really good at getting back to you quickly. If you do email them post their reply I'm sure some of us will be interested.
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#3284915 - 02/17/14 08:40 AM Re: Risks associated with double dose Ceratec [Re: Fuzz1]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 33226
Loc: New Jersey
Notionally any lube like that would only sit on the surface, and any more would be pushed out of the passages where the hydrodynamic wedge goes through.

Too much scares me in that it could be more prone to agglomeration.

I'd run at the identified rates, if you're more concerned, then try to ID an oil with a bit more film strength.

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#3284998 - 02/17/14 10:03 AM Re: Risks associated with double dose Ceratec [Re: Fuzz1]
Doog Offline


Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 3364
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: Fuzz1

Or would it simply be a case of wasting money and receiving marginal returns / improvement over one bottle.

Your comments and insights would be appreciated.

Thanks.


My thought is this...if you can find any additive that could reduce to coefficient of friction successfully it would be wildly sought after by every bearing and petroleum company in the business. This represents a global group of cutthroat billionaires who would kill each other to get this "magic" formula and patent it. Sorry, it hasn't happened yet.
All oil additives that make these claims are a waste of money. Your efforts and money are better spent finding a better oil and not adding any "snake oil" to the mix.

I have used the Liqui Moly products...useless.
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#3285008 - 02/17/14 10:14 AM Re: Risks associated with double dose Ceratec [Re: Fuzz1]
JRed Offline


Registered: 06/01/09
Posts: 1633
Loc: Virginia
I seem to remember there being some speculation about the fact that because ceramic is such an excellent electrical insulator that it could foul spark plugs and reduce spark efficiency if you had an engine that was burning a lot of oil. Who knows if that's the case but it's worth a thought.

I think oil additives are a waste, and Doog's comment is exactly why.

If you want to protect the bearings invest in an oil temp gauge and run an oil weight that's appropriate for your oil temp when on the track.
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#3285143 - 02/17/14 12:22 PM Re: Risks associated with double dose Ceratec [Re: Doog]
dave5358 Offline


Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 444
Loc: North Bend
Originally Posted By: Doog
My thought is this...if you can find any additive that could reduce to coefficient of friction successfully it would be wildly sought after by every bearing and petroleum company in the business. This represents a global group of cutthroat billionaires who would kill each other to get this "magic" formula and patent it. Sorry, it hasn't happened yet. All oil additives that make these claims are a waste of money. Your efforts and money are better spent finding a better oil and not adding any "snake oil" to the mix.


That seems to settle the question nicely.

Is it possible that some additives have qualities that an oil formulator might find unattractive, even if they were desirable from a strict engineering perspective? For example, an additive that turns your oil black, or requires that you shake well before using.

Or, perhaps an oil company determines [correctly] that their oil will last one oil change interval, provide adequate lubrication and is profitable to make. That same oil with some additional additive might last longer than one oil change interval, might provide better lubrication but would be less profitable to make. As a corporate person, which would you choose to make?

Originally Posted By: Doog
I have used the Liqui Moly products...useless.


Which product(s) are useless? The Liqui Moly folks make a wide variety of products, many of which are certified by BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, Renault, Citroen, Peugeot, ILSAC, etc - the list is quite impressive. Are those products useless as well?

BTW, some Liqui-Moly motor oil products contain MoS2, a well-known additive which they also market separately as Liqui-Moly Anti Friction. Are the oils containing this additive useless? If the additive is worthwhile when included in the Liqui-Moly motor oil formulation (which oil is certified by ... see list above], then is the additive worthless if added to some other brand of oil?
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#3285416 - 02/17/14 05:09 PM Re: Risks associated with double dose Ceratec [Re: Fuzz1]
dailydriver Offline


Registered: 03/14/06
Posts: 6820
Loc: Bucks County, Pa.
^^^ The same goes TRIPLE for the mentioned bearing manufacturers, who could be put out of business by 'too good' an oil/additive. wink
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#3285441 - 02/17/14 05:35 PM Re: Risks associated with double dose Ceratec [Re: Fuzz1]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 6988
Loc: Saskatoon canada
I use ceratec and love the liqui-moly brand. Everything they sell performs as advertised. Period.
Now as far as double dosing is concerned there is no benefit.the moving parts can only use so much of the ceratec as the parts are plated. Once plated its no longer required.
I see no harm in double dosing but no gain either.
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#3285455 - 02/17/14 05:45 PM Re: Risks associated with double dose Ceratec [Re: Clevy]
147_Grain Offline


Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 1260
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Clevy
I use ceratec and love the liqui-moly brand. Everything they sell performs as advertised. Period.

I see no harm in double dosing but no gain either.


I agree and have had positive experiences with Cera-Tec and MoS2 in multiple vehicles over the years.

Liqui-Moly products perform as advertised and are recommended / used by top automakers throughout the world.
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#3285479 - 02/17/14 06:09 PM Re: Risks associated with double dose Ceratec [Re: 147_Grain]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 6988
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: 147_Grain
Originally Posted By: Clevy
I use ceratec and love the liqui-moly brand. Everything they sell performs as advertised. Period.

I see no harm in double dosing but no gain either.


I agree and have had positive experiences with Cera-Tec and MoS2 in multiple vehicles over the years.

Liqui-Moly products perform as advertised and are recommended / used by top automakers throughout the world.


I never noticed before but their 0w-40 meets all the same certs as M1 0w-40. That's good company to be in.
And here in Canada I can get the liqui-moly in a 5 litre jug for 50 bucks. I can't find m1 0w-40 in jugs anywhere so I'd have to buy quarts at a minimum of 12 bucks each.
And I used the liqui-moly 0w-40 this fall in my charger. Immediately my old temps lowered by 20f on the highway at steady cruise which baffled me. I figured going thicker would increase my oil temps.
Risktaker sent me a couple jugs of M1 0w-40 from the states so I'm going to try it next in my charger and compare vs liqui-moly.
Liqui-moly is a top notch company. I'm very happy with everything they make,from fuel adds to oil adds the stuff pays for itself in a tank of fuel in my experience.
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#3286153 - 02/18/14 12:13 PM Re: Risks associated with double dose Ceratec [Re: Fuzz1]
KCJeep Offline


Registered: 06/30/11
Posts: 4455
Loc: Mahzurrah!
If more was better I reckon they'd be happy to recommend a higher dose to sell you more product. Follow the directions IMO.
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