AGM Battery . Who has the best deal and quality

[martinq]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
You're running the battery closer to its max, so it will create issues with the chemistry, higher internal heating, etc. You can expect poorer life because of the size/rating you selected, unfortunately.

I'm hoping for 8-10 years out of this one. Time will tell.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: martinq
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
You're running the battery closer to its max, so it will create issues with the chemistry, higher internal heating, etc. You can expect poorer life because of the size/rating you selected, unfortunately.

I'm hoping for 8-10 years out of this one. Time will tell.


Indeed it will. Doesn't change the physics of the situation which will occur exactly as I define. Lead acid is lead acid, regardless of if it is valve regulated with AGM, or anything else. There is very little difference besides some plate alloying. Your comment before worries me..

Originally Posted By: martinq
Originally Posted By: GaleHawkins
If one is buying a car AGM battery that needs the car's OEM charging system altered/tweaked it seems to me one is buying the wrong brand of AGM battery.

It's not the brand that's the issue it's the chemistry. AGM is not the same as FLA or SLA.


There is no magic to these things, and they will encounter the same thermally-induced calendar life issues/ageing that any flooded battery does,,they just can't have their electrolyte recovered. They will still offgas at above a 3C rate roughly, they will also be damaged just as easily by being undercharged. Running higher loads on a smaller,high impedance battery is going to take its loaded voltage way down, and create life issues too.

I wish you all the luck in the world, I just don't believe it will last for the long run given the service use.

 

[Hollow]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: Hollow

As I too have a vehicle that can sit for 2-4 weeks at a time, and have now had 3 poor Johnson Controls made batteries in a row (mid grade Autocraft came in car, replaced with 2 Everstart Maxx that have both vented an unacceptable amount of gas/acid out the caps and heavily corroded)I'm looking into something that doesn't have vent caps to leak from in my group 35 size.

Around me, both Autozone and O'Reilly's have their "house brand" AGM batteries for under $160. Compared to the DieHard Gold regular battery at about $130 I was planning on getting, I think I'll try something new. I can justify a small premium, but not a doubling of cost like some of the higher end AGM lines.


Id say that you have a charging issue given what you've found. Perhaps Grp 35 has design flaws, and Ive not been thrilled with the maxx battery performance/longevity personally, but IMO you have an issue. AGM is less tolerant of abuse, and there isn't excess electrolyte, so overcharge or dryout happens faster, and can result in thermal runaway (fire) sooner. Id look into your electric system.


What would you you suggest for checking my charging system? I have a Scangauge II, it shows the voltage within normal limits whenever I am in the car. But these Maxx batteries are venting something awful.

 

[martinq]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Lead acid is lead acid, regardless of if it is valve regulated with AGM, or anything else. There is very little difference besides some plate alloying. Your comment before worries me..

Originally Posted By: martinq
It's not the brand that's the issue it's the chemistry. AGM is not the same as FLA or SLA.

Don't be worried, just read the spec-sheets. You'll find the differing construction/chemistry reflected in the mfg's listed temperature/voltage charge curves. If the chemistry was the same then there should be no change in voltage requirements.

 

[martinq]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
There is no magic to these things,

I did not realize that the dark-arts had been brought into this discussion ... ?


Originally Posted By: JHZR2
... and they will encounter the same thermally-induced calendar life issues/ageing that any flooded battery does,,they just can't have their electrolyte recovered.

Yet somehow they achieve double the life-expectancy?


Originally Posted By: JHZR2
They will still offgas at above a 3C rate roughly, they will also be damaged just as easily by being undercharged.

From the tech manual:
Quote:
The inrush current does not need to be limited under constant voltage charge. However, because the typical alternator voltage is only 14.2V instead of 14.7V, the charge times will be longer ...



Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Running higher loads on a smaller,high impedance battery is going to take its loaded voltage way down, and create life issues too.

This characteristic is slightly different for a battery that is designed and rated to handle deep-discharging. From the tech manual:
Quote:
Unlike other AGM VRLA batteries, the ODYSSEY battery is capable of delivering up to 400 cycles when discharged to 80% DOD and properly charged.

... at end of life an ODYSSEY battery will still deliver 80% of its rated capacity.

I also know, from previous experience, that the Odyssey will bounce back from 'dead-flat' numerous times with no noticeable change in performance.


Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I wish you all the luck in the world, I just don't believe it will last for the long run given the service use.

Like I mentioned, the 9-years of service on the previous battery gives me more than just luck or hope.

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: martinq
After several starts below -20C and my first at -30C (yesterday) I can say that the Odyssey is really doing well on it's first winter.

For some perspective, this is a 265CCA Odyssey in a 435CCA BCI-51 application.

Previously I was using a 220CCA Odyssey in a 525CCA BCI-86/26/75 application. This battery outlived the car and was then used for several years in the current car for a total useful life of 9 years (but I don't recall any -30C starts).

The price for these Odyssey batteries is the same as the larger, heavier and corrosion-promoting lead-acid batteries that are typically used but they last almost double (in my experience). Hoping for many good years with the new battery.


This is from their smaller, lighter racing line, correct??

 

[martinq]

Originally Posted By: dailydriver
This is from their smaller, lighter racing line, correct??

No, this is one of their standard products (didn't know there was a racing line). I believe it's listed as a power-sports application.

Previous used the pc680, currently using the pc625 which has:
- higher capacity
- less weight
- higher CCA
- same price (or less even!)

Looks like the Canadian site has old/incorrect info compared to the current owners-manual (they've revised the ratings somewhere between 2011 and 2013). Current ratings for these batteries are:

http://www.odysseybattery.com/battspecs.html
pc680
- 170 CCA
- 24 mins reserve
- 7kg

pc625
- 200 CCA
- 27 mins reserve
- 6kg

 

[dailydriver]

^^^I could NEVER EVER use anything with those low CCA, and reserve capacity specs!

Which is also WHY I would never even consider the Braille units (plus, I am told they are just re-branded for 2-3x+ the price, Dekas, as are the Hawkers).

I even 'stepped up' from a 75/86 1230 Odyssey to a (slightly) larger/heavier, 34/78 1500!

 

[martinq]

Originally Posted By: dailydriver
^^^I could NEVER EVER use anything with those low CCA, and reserve capacity specs!

To each his own. Like I said, 9 years on the 170CCA but I've stepped-up to the beefy (and lighter) 200CCA unit.