Recent Topics
Pennsylvania Oil Lease?
by BBrier
6 minutes 37 seconds ago
I am filing suit against Carter Fuel Systems
by DoubleWasp
Today at 03:37 PM
Smart Thermostats
by OVERKILL
Today at 03:26 PM
make your own coil pack removal tool cheap!!
by raaizin
Today at 03:14 PM
Does my car just hate Autocraft batteries, or what
by daves87rs
Today at 02:14 PM
Old Mac SW on new Mac, possible?
by sleddriver
Today at 01:40 PM
Quickstruts and my 2007 Escape....
by badtlc
Today at 01:16 PM
Anyone using Falken Ziex Ze950 A/S tires ?
by wbwanzer
Today at 01:10 PM
Mobil 1 15/w50 in Ford 4.6 V8 12,706 Mile OCI
by Doktor_Bert
Today at 11:48 AM
Mobil 1 0w40 to castrol syntec 0w40 European
by MetalSlug
Today at 11:38 AM
Tire rotation at Mavis Tire
by Donald
Today at 11:38 AM
tire speed rating vs tire longevity
by friendly_jacek
Today at 10:42 AM
Newest Members
Mike_T13, spau, FLYNAVY, ArtGarcia, 12e
51662 Registered Users
Who's Online
85 registered (19jacobob93, 97tbird, 87sammy, 01rangerxl, 01_celica_gt, 901Memphis, 7 invisible), 1764 Guests and 179 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
51662 Members
64 Forums
221066 Topics
3494438 Posts

Max Online: 2862 @ 07/07/14 03:10 PM
Donate to BITOG

Topic Options
#3279119 - 02/12/14 09:17 AM An oldie but a goody, req'd reading for BITOG'ers?
LoneRanger Offline


Registered: 07/02/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: Midwest
From 2009, lot of good basic info:

http://www.zddplus.com/TechBrief10%20-%20Oil%20Base%20Stocks.pdf

Amsoil vs. Mobil debaters, take note of 1972, 1973, 1977. Amsoil may have been first w/ a diester base product by a year (1972), but Mobil was actually first to use PAO base with Amsoil following Mobil's lead in 1977 and reformulating to PAO... or so it appears.

_________________________

'09 Subaru Forester .. (Kendall GT-1 Syn Blend 5W30)
'13 Ducati MTS .......... (Silkolene Pro 4 Ester 15W50)

Top
#3279179 - 02/12/14 10:19 AM Re: An oldie but a goody, req'd reading for BITOG'ers? [Re: LoneRanger]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 33778
Loc: New Jersey
Will be interesting to hear Doug and Tom's input on this wrt dates.

Top
#3279183 - 02/12/14 10:20 AM Re: An oldie but a goody, req'd reading for BITOG'ers? [Re: LoneRanger]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 12539
Loc: Chicago, IL
It's form 2008 so obviously it's a bit out of date.
_________________________
2011.5 BMW M3 saloon ZCP
der stärkste buchstabe der welt
Castrol Edge Professional TWS 10w60 + Mahle OX 254D3

Top
#3279294 - 02/12/14 11:43 AM Re: An oldie but a goody, req'd reading for BITOG'ers? [Re: LoneRanger]
Wilhelm_D Offline


Registered: 01/28/09
Posts: 818
Loc: Tacoma, WA
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
From 2009, lot of good basic info:

http://www.zddplus.com/TechBrief10%20-%20Oil%20Base%20Stocks.pdf

Amsoil vs. Mobil debaters, take note of 1972, 1973, 1977. Amsoil may have been first w/ a diester base product by a year (1972), but Mobil was actually first to use PAO base with Amsoil following Mobil's lead in 1977 and reformulating to PAO... or so it appears.


The blurb states:

"Amsoil™ reformulates its product to the higher performance PAO/ester blend"

I am not sure that PAO/ester is "higher performance" than diester per se. I worked with a number of diester-based synthetics in the late 60s into the mid-70s that were pretty darned good. The main problem was expense - they were not cheap to formulate.

There were also motor oils based on polyalkylene glycol (PAG), neopentyl polyol esters, alkylated benzenes, and others. Some of them had compatibility issues with seals, gaskets, and in the case of PAG other motor oils.

A lot of the information I read about the history of synthetics is not very accurate.

Top
#3280387 - 02/13/14 08:15 AM Re: An oldie but a goody, req'd reading for BITOG'ers? [Re: LoneRanger]
Tom NJ Offline


Registered: 07/27/06
Posts: 1628
Loc: New Jersey & Virginia
The Amsoil synthetic was introduced in 1972. The reformulation to PAO/Diester took place in 1979.

My recollection is that Mobil 1 was released in the USA in 1974, but they did introduced it in Europe about a year earlier. IIRC, the European product was about 80% PAO with about 10% each of two polyol esters (TMP C7 and PE C7), while the USA offering contained PAO with a single POE (TMP C8C10). They switched the ester portion to a diester (DTDA) around 1980, and then back to POE (TMP C8C10) in the 90s. They began introducing Grp III+ in the early 2000s, and by 2006 were mostly Grp III+ with PAO and AN and very little POE.

Not that this has any value beyond historical trivia.

Tom NJ

Top
#3280394 - 02/13/14 08:23 AM Re: An oldie but a goody, req'd reading for BITOG'ers? [Re: Wilhelm_D]
Tom NJ Offline


Registered: 07/27/06
Posts: 1628
Loc: New Jersey & Virginia
Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D
I am not sure that PAO/ester is "higher performance" than diester per se. I worked with a number of diester-based synthetics in the late 60s into the mid-70s that were pretty darned good. The main problem was expense - they were not cheap to formulate.


I agree, those early all diester synthetic oils were quite good (Amsoil, Pacer, Zonex, Red Line, Neo, etc.) Hatco ran one through a double Sequence III engine test and had 0% viscosity increase! The SE specification was 400% max.

Tom NJ

Top
#3282481 - 02/14/14 10:33 PM Re: An oldie but a goody, req'd reading for BITOG'ers? [Re: LoneRanger]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14642
Loc: Midwest
The whole debate of who was first in synthetics is somewhat silly in my view.

It took many years of chemistry development by many people to arrive at where we are.

But for Trivia purposes, here is another historical view:


Synthetic Oil Development by LePera
_________________________
My bank has a service where they text me my balance every afternoon. I just don’t think they should add “LOL” to the end. smile

Top
#3282821 - 02/15/14 09:57 AM Re: An oldie but a goody, req'd reading for BITOG'ers? [Re: MolaKule]
Tom NJ Offline


Registered: 07/27/06
Posts: 1628
Loc: New Jersey & Virginia
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
The whole debate of who was first in synthetics is somewhat silly in my view.

It took many years of chemistry development by many people to arrive at where we are.

But for Trivia purposes, here is another historical view:


Synthetic Oil Development by LePera


Thanks Phil - that was the first "History of Synthetics" type article that I have found no fault with.

And the winner is.... "the Army is recognized for leading the introduction of synthetic oils for automotive engine and powertrain applications."

Tom NJ

Top