Ford spark plug question

[buck91]

Found out that my F150 with the 5.0L Coyote needs the plugs done with only 48l on the clock. Figuring I'll get around to it when the weather breaks this spring, and other than finding a good deal on the plugs (SP-519?) I am curious if it matters what dielectric grease I use?

In the past I've used Syl-glide, but that does tend to dry out in this application. Can pick the the permatex stuff for a little under half the cost of the fancy motorcraft XG-3-A silicone grease- is there any reason to stick with the Ford stuff? Or to avoid the permatex?

 

[NHGUY]

Use Dielectric not silicone.Ford V8s are very touchy with the coil on plug setups when you don't use dielectric grease.One crossfire/misfire and the coil is toast.

 

[Cardenio327]

As far as I know Syl-Glide is just a lubricating grease. It may have dielectric properties but I wouldn't use it for plug boots.

Get a tube of grease at any good auto parts store that is actually labeled as being dielectric. It doesn't have to be Ford.

You can also get dielectric grease in the circuit breaker aisle of Home Depot or Lowe's.

 

[bdcardinal]

Use dielectric grease on the coil boots. The Motorcraft XG3A is really good stuff, Ford recommends that for lubricating the slide pins on brakes.

What was used to determine that the vehicle needs plugs so early?

 

[buck91]

bdcardinal, I have been experiencing some various shuddering type issues and shortly after dropping the vehicle offer they called me to inform that it was storing some misfire information for which they recommended new plugs. Based on the online researching I have been doing this does add up as under light to minor misfiring (not enough to trip the CEL) the engine will cut fuel to the cylinder to protect the catalytic element which will cause a shudder or hesitation. Plus, many people reporting plug gaps out of spec.

 

[buck91]

Also, any thoughts on using the Autolite XP5363 iridium plugs instead of the OE motorcrafts?

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: buck91
bdcardinal, I have been experiencing some various shuddering type issues and shortly after dropping the vehicle offer they called me to inform that it was storing some misfire information for which they recommended new plugs. Based on the online researching I have been doing this does add up as under light to minor misfiring (not enough to trip the CEL) the engine will cut fuel to the cylinder to protect the catalytic element which will cause a shudder or hesitation. Plus, many people reporting plug gaps out of spec.


So why is it not covered under the 8/80 Emissions warranty? Spark plugs and boots are specifically listed there. I'd save the grief and let them do it for free.

 

[buck91]

They are claiming its a "wear and tear" item. But I'm going to have to chat with them a bit further.

 

[bdcardinal]

Originally Posted By: buck91
They are claiming its a "wear and tear" item. But I'm going to have to chat with them a bit further.


You would think it would be under some sort of warranty.

As far as the Autolite number, I have no experience with those. I have the tick on the passengers side of my Coyote and I just noticed some slight misfires the other day when idling, but no codes.

 

[buck91]

Oh get this. According to "my" dealer...

1. Spark plugs are first line replacement item for the "random" misfire found (ok, yes.)

2. Spark plugs are rated for 60k mile service. Ford lists MI as a server service interval region due to weather. (Really?)

3. Spark plugs are NOT COVERED UNDER ANY WARRANTY and are strictly a maintenance item. (I will be looking into this further as well). The service writer has specifically told me the spark plugs are excluded from the powertrain warranty as well as the emissions warranty.

 

[bdcardinal]

Have him pull up parts coverage on your vehicle in OASIS. Put in your current mileage and the basic number of "12405" that will say for sure if it is covered or not. Do it there with your advisor and have him print you out a copy.

I could do it for you here, I just don't want to step on their toes. Dealers like this really annoy me because it makes me look bad by association.

 

[buck91]

I completely appreciate your input and will definitely look into that when I pick the truck up tomorrow. I'm not too optimistic, though. A separate dealer as well as the Ford Customer service line stately clearly and plainly that in no way are spark plugs considered a warranty item outside of the bumper to bumper and that they are analogous to brake pads or an air filter.

Not the worst issue I've heard of with Ford warranty, also I just don't see how a misfire at 48k miles does fall under either powertrain OR emission warranties...

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: buck91
They are claiming its a "wear and tear" item. But I'm going to have to chat with them a bit further.


Pg 20 of the 2011 Ford warranty booklet states specifically Spark Plugs and wires are covered.

The online PDF is here:

http://www.fordservicecontent.com/Ford_Content/catalog/owner_guides/11frdwa6e.pdf

 

[buck91]

But you must have both an emissions test failure as well as a fine or penalty for that failed test. Neither of which apply in my state.

 

[bdcardinal]

It seems weird they are doing spark plugs for a misfire without coils. I bet coils are covered, and when you replace a coil under warranty, Ford wants you to replace the spark plug also. Same if you replace a fuel injector, they want the spark plug replaced.

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: buck91
But you must have both an emissions test failure as well as a fine or penalty for that failed test. Neither of which apply in my state.


I'd argue for the performance warranty:

Quote:
EMISSIONS DEFECT WARRANTY COVERAGE
During the warranty coverage period, Ford Motor Company warrants that:
• your vehicle or engine is designed, built, and equipped to meet - at the time it is sold - the emissions regulations of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA).
• your vehicle or engine is free from emission-related defects in factory-supplied materials or workmanship, which are defects that could prevent the vehicle or engine from conforming with applicable EPA regulations.
• you will not be charged for diagnosis, repair, replacement, or adjustment of parts containing an emissions-related defect. Applicable parts are listed under What is Covered? on pages 20-21.


If it's misfiring it's non-conforming issue and that should be covered.

It's Bravo Sierra like this that makes me furious as both a fan of the brand and a shareholder. Spend the $100 and make this guy happy. He will tell his friends how good the service is and that can lead to more sales. Seems to be working well for Apple (I've always had excellent service from them.) and no reason it can't work for cars.

Luckily I have a decent dealer and have built a good rapport with them.

 

[buck91]

Ford is notorious for their lousy warranty coverage and service. This is my third trip in to the dealer for the vibration. First time they did the ubiquitous transmission reflash, second time they blew me of and the only reason they found the misfires this time is because I specifically requested the mode 06 test. I knew that going into Ford, just have had good experiences with older Fords as well as my '12 Mustang. After this plus the experiences others close to me have had I'm not sure if I'll be going Ford again.

 

[Propflux01]

New dealer time?

 

[bdcardinal]

Originally Posted By: buck91
Ford is notorious for their lousy warranty coverage and service. This is my third trip in to the dealer for the vibration. First time they did the ubiquitous transmission reflash, second time they blew me of and the only reason they found the misfires this time is because I specifically requested the mode 06 test. I knew that going into Ford, just have had good experiences with older Fords as well as my '12 Mustang. After this plus the experiences others close to me have had I'm not sure if I'll be going Ford again.


See that really annoys me, not only as a dealer employee, but as a shareholder. We try to treat all of our customers at my dealership like they are family. Sometimes we cannot help them, and that is unfortunate, but that would only be after exhausting all options.

Hearing a service writer say "that is not covered" so quickly really gets to me. It makes me think that service writer does not care. At the very least take a couple steps and double check something isn't covered.

 

[buck91]

Finally got around to doing the plugs myself. It was above 20F and sunny, so never mind that wind

Anyways, out with the CYFS-12Y and in with Autolite XP5363. Old plugs were showing >0.050in gap with no erosion evident. All looked nice and tan with no damage or issues except #4 (I think, in front of driver at back of block) which was a little darker and oily/sooty.

Feels MUCH better now with definite improvement in low end torque and noticeable reduction in take off shudder. Not sure if its gone or just much better, but with the heavy work week coming up I'll get lots of seat time to notice.

Argument starter: I did NOT use Motorcraft plugs. I DID use some anti seize. I DID use a torque wrench