2014 Passat 2.5 or 1.8T?

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FWIW, I'm fairly vibration sensitive and every 5 cyl I have owned or driven has had an odd harmonic, I do not think harsh or unrefined is an accurate description, but it is definitely unique. I think "artificial" is about as close as I can come to describing it. Some might not notice it and even if you do it might not bother you but it is worth spending a little time in one to see...
 
We had the 1st version of the 2.5 with only 150HP and it was more than adequate for the Rabbit/Golf.

I drove a 2.5 Passat and it didn't seem slow at all, pretty good low end tq for it's size.

I would only like the 1.8t now if I could get it with a decent 6 sp manual. A 5 sp leaves a lot to be desired in terms of fun. Granted the DSG is the next best thing but that won't be a choice. They say you can use regular octane but I'd use premium anyway because you will notice the difference.

I will say you may be able to get away with a lack in maintenance on a non-turbo but you must maintain the 1.8t on schedule and use the proper synthetic oil because they are not all equal.

A note to the person who does 3k OCI with GC0w30 on a 2.5. Stop wasting your money there is no reason what so ever to dump it that early. 5k is the minimum but with more highway driving you could certainly go longer. With did 7.5k on hers on a long trip with no ill effects. UOA showed even less wear per 1000 miles than with 5k OCI. Just a thought...
 
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
FWIW, I'm fairly vibration sensitive and every 5 cyl I have owned or driven has had an odd harmonic, I do not think harsh or unrefined is an accurate description, but it is definitely unique. I think "artificial" is about as close as I can come to describing it. Some might not notice it and even if you do it might not bother you but it is worth spending a little time in one to see...


From wiki:

Quote:
The five-cylinder engine's advantage over a comparable four-cylinder engine is best understood by considering power strokes and their frequency. A four-stroke cycle engine fires each cylinder once every 720 degrees — the crankshaft makes two complete rotations. If we assume an even firing engine, we can divide 720 degrees by the number of cylinders to determine how often a power stroke occurs. For a four-cylinder engine, 720° ÷ 4 = 180° so there is a power stroke every 180 degrees, which is two power strokes per revolution of the crankshaft. A V8 engine gets a power stroke every 90 degrees: 720° ÷ 8 = 90°, which is four power stokes for each revolution of the crankshaft.

A given power stroke can last no more than 180 degrees of crankshaft rotation, so the power strokes of a four-cylinder engine are sequential, with no overlap. At the end of one cylinder's power stroke another cylinder fires. In a one, two, or three cylinder engine there are times when no power stroke is occurring. In a three-cylinder engine a power stroke occurs every 240 degrees (720° ÷ 3 = 240°). Since a power stroke cannot last longer than 180 degrees, this means that a three-cylinder engine has 60 degrees of "silence" when no power stroke takes place.

Five-cylinder engines have a crank with 72 degree angles (except for the VW V5, that has an offset in the crank that corresponds to the angle between the cylinders. Despite the V configuration the engine has even firing intervals.). Most five cylinder engines have the firing order 1-2-4-5-3. Firing of one cylinder after another (e.g. 1-2-3-4-5 in case of a five cylinder engine) is never used except in 3 cylinder engines where there is no alternative. The reason for this is that the resulting engine will have a strong tendency of rocking from end to end, as well as having generally poor balance.
A five-cylinder engine gets a power stroke every 144 degrees (720° ÷ 5 = 144°). Since each power stroke lasts 180 degrees, this means that a power stroke is always in effect. Because of uneven levels of torque during the expansion strokes divided among the five cylinders, there are increased secondary-order vibrations. At higher engine speeds, there is an uneven third-order vibration from the crankshaft which occurs every 144 degrees. Because the power strokes have some overlap, a five-cylinder engine may run more smoothly than a non-overlapping four-cylinder engine, but only at limited mid-range speeds where second and third-order vibrations are lower.

Every cylinder added beyond five increases the overlap of firing strokes and makes for less primary order vibration. An inline-six gets a power stroke every 120 degrees. So there is more overlap (180° - 120° = 60°) than in a five-cylinder engine (180° - 144° = 36°). However, this increase in smoothness of a six-cylinder engine over a five-cylinder engine is not as pronounced as that of a five-cylinder engine over a four-cylinder engine. The inline-five loses less power to friction as compared to an inline-six. It also uses fewer parts, and it is physically shorter, so it requires less room in the engine bay, allowing for transverse mounting.
A five-cylinder engine is longer and more expensive to manufacture than a comparable four-cylinder engine, but some manufacturers feel these costs are outweighed by its greater capacity in a smaller space than a six-cylinder.


Plenty more here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straight-five_engine

But seems to indicate your findings on harmonics, but also discusses smoothness and parts counts and power strokes.

With all my years and miles on Mercedes 5 cyl engines,(diesel), I'm obviously a fan. But it seems there is some goodness there that makes them superior to I4s.

My 5 cyl MB is far smoother than my 4 cyl.
 
Originally Posted By: Thermo1223
I would only like the 1.8t now if I could get it with a decent 6 sp manual. A 5 sp leaves a lot to be desired in terms of fun.

How does having a 6-speed manual (as opposed to 5-speed manual) translate into having more fun? Not sure I follow...
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Thermo1223
I would only like the 1.8t now if I could get it with a decent 6 sp manual. A 5 sp leaves a lot to be desired in terms of fun.

How does having a 6-speed manual (as opposed to 5-speed manual) translate into having more fun? Not sure I follow...


Not sure either. Maybe having a wider spread of ratios to keep the engine in the powerband better? Although with a turbo tuned for low/midrange punch like this VW engine sounds like it is, the powerband is pretty darned broad. A 5-speed will work fine, although a 6-speed does offer more chances for picking the optimal engine RPM for a given situation.
 
Originally Posted By: sciphi
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Thermo1223
I would only like the 1.8t now if I could get it with a decent 6 sp manual. A 5 sp leaves a lot to be desired in terms of fun.

How does having a 6-speed manual (as opposed to 5-speed manual) translate into having more fun? Not sure I follow...


Not sure either. Maybe having a wider spread of ratios to keep the engine in the powerband better? Although with a turbo tuned for low/midrange punch like this VW engine sounds like it is, the powerband is pretty darned broad. A 5-speed will work fine, although a 6-speed does offer more chances for picking the optimal engine RPM for a given situation.


Im no fan of "performance" 6-sp MTs in most cars. I noted on an Acura ILX sitting in the mall that the 6MT only comes with the 2.4L. Seems ridiculous. I like the idea of two ODs. Heck, the 5-sp in my 2004 saab can have TWO ODs, and with the low inertia turbo, shows no lag and has great off idle torque. No reason VW cant add a good deep OD and pull out a few extra MPGs. Turbo cars make so much torque down low that it can handle it.
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
No reason VW cant add a good deep OD and pull out a few extra MPGs.

They kind of do. The 5-speed trans mated to this 1.8T has a ratio of 0.86:1 in 4th, and 0.66:1 in 5th gear. Final drive is 3.65:1. That gives around 2000 rpm in 5th gear at 65 mph.
 
My 2.5L engine @ idle transmits no vibration at all to the steering wheel in my Golf. I can't recall any of the 4 cyl cars that I've owned past or present which has been as vibration free. Also something to consider on a 4 vs 5 cyl. engine w/the AC on, in my experiences, much less vibration on the 5 cyl.
 
Originally Posted By: sciphi
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Thermo1223
I would only like the 1.8t now if I could get it with a decent 6 sp manual. A 5 sp leaves a lot to be desired in terms of fun.

How does having a 6-speed manual (as opposed to 5-speed manual) translate into having more fun? Not sure I follow...


Not sure either. Maybe having a wider spread of ratios to keep the engine in the powerband better? Although with a turbo tuned for low/midrange punch like this VW engine sounds like it is, the powerband is pretty darned broad. A 5-speed will work fine, although a 6-speed does offer more chances for picking the optimal engine RPM for a given situation.


^^^

Exactly that, preferably with only one OD gear at the end or 6th speed if we are talking pure performance with some form of economy.

However in an everyday commuter car I would mostly likely appreciate and almost OD 5th and a real OD 6th.
 
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Originally Posted By: sparky123
My 2.5L engine @ idle transmits no vibration at all to the steering wheel in my Golf. I can't recall any of the 4 cyl cars that I've owned past or present which has been as vibration free. Also something to consider on a 4 vs 5 cyl. engine w/the AC on, in my experiences, much less vibration on the 5 cyl.


I have to agree with you on this. A few years ago I had my 2007 A6 3.2 in for service and they gave me a 2006 A4 2.0t for a loaner and was quite disappointed on how much vibration was in the 2.0t. Fast foward when my daughter began to drive we bought her a 2008 jetta SE 2.5. I would take the jetta engine over the A4 engine any day of the week. I really enjoy driving the jetta! I would say drive them both and then decide
 
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On the highway our 6spd Camry has like 100-200 rpm split between 5 and 6. I wish it was taller in sixth, as it has yet to see a hill on the highway that requires a downshift. On the backroads at 50-55 there is hardly any difference between 5&6; if it won't pull the hill in 6th then it certainly won't in 5th. If I need to accelerate I wind up going for 4th (and occasionally 3rd!).

Looking here http://www.vibratesoftware.com/html_help/2011/Toyota/1997-2014_Toyota_Transmissions.htm#EB62 it looks like I have 0.875 for 5th and 0.733 for sixth.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
No reason VW cant add a good deep OD and pull out a few extra MPGs.

They kind of do. The 5-speed trans mated to this 1.8T has a ratio of 0.86:1 in 4th, and 0.66:1 in 5th gear. Final drive is 3.65:1. That gives around 2000 rpm in 5th gear at 65 mph.



Well our 2.5 with the 5-sp MT is geared great for around town but not so great on the highway - have never done better than 32 MPGs.

# First Gear Ratio :)1): 3.78
# Second Gear Ratio :)1): 2.12
# Third Gear Ratio :)1): 1.36
# Fourth Gear Ratio :)1): 1.03
# Fifth Gear Ratio :)1): 0.77
# Reverse Ratio :)1): 3.60
# Final Drive Axle Ratio :)1): 3.65

Kind of odd that they didnt make 4th direct drive...

But going down the road at 25-35 MPH in 4th yields >40 MPG all day long, which is far better than highway driving in 5th... obviously.
 
Ironically our Rabbit w/ the 6sp auto did the same.

It would have no issue putting along in 6th at 35-45mph and yield way more than 30mpg doing it.

The tach would sit at 1200 rpm but shift at the hint of a hill but then right back down it would go.
 
OP, don't fear the turbo. If VAG is still using Borg Warner KO3s, they should last the full life of the car with the proper oil maintenance.

I have two with 167k miles on them in the Audi, and with a stage 1 tune they are pushing 15psi on a daily basis. Just change the oil and filter every 5k miles with a 502.00 oil and you should have no issues.
 
Myself and my sons have had 3 VW 1.8T's all went way over 100K miles, all used syn oil @ 5000 oil changes. The issue I see is premium gas, is it required for the 1.8T? It was on all my previous VW's
 
Originally Posted By: IMPALA08
Myself and my sons have had 3 VW 1.8T's all went way over 100K miles, all used syn oil @ 5000 oil changes. The issue I see is premium gas, is it required for the 1.8T? It was on all my previous VW's


The VW website says 'regular unleaded' is the fuel requirement.
 
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