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#3274511 - 02/08/14 07:16 AM Shell RT6, 5w-40, 21,466mi, 06 GMC Duramax
DNVDMAX Offline


Registered: 11/20/07
Posts: 173
Loc: Alaska
Very pleased with these results.

Lab was ALS-Atlanta this time, I bought the NAPA $14 kit, and the universal averages are from my first Blackstone report.

I have to admit I got the OCI itch to dump it at 15k, but I could DNewton's voice in my head, "Don't do it," "that's wasteful." Thanks Dave.

I will probably just keep my OCI at 20k and sample for a health report.

I kept the "mild" EFI Live tune throughout the duration of this OCI. I also changed the Baldwin Oil filter @10k into the OCI and cleaned the AFE 7-layer air filter ~500mi into the OCI.

The .5 qt of makeup is due the filter change.

BTW, my wife and I still drive it like it's stolen, and it's saw plenty of short trips under 5mi.

Comments appreciated.


Code:
MI/HR on Oil			21,466			13,893			6,700
MI/HR on Unit			106671			85,205			
Sample Date			01/13/14		03/05/12		
Oil				Rotella T6 5w-40	Rotella T6 5w-40			
Make Up Oil Added		.5 qts (Filter)		0 qts			Univ Averages

ALUMINUM			6			6			2
CHROMIUM			<1			1			0
IRON				24			34			13
COPPER				4			14			13
LEAD				1			0			3
TIN				2			3			1
MOLYBDENUM			67			62			36
NICKEL				<1			0			0
MANGANESE			Not Tested		1			0
SILVER				<1			0			0
TITANIUM			<1			0			0
POTASSIUM			<5			7			4
BORON				23			38			89
SILICON				6			8			10
SODIUM				10			4			4
CALCIUM				860			970			2212
MAGNESIUM			1171			1258			376
PHOSPHORUS			1070			1098			1082
ZINC				1312			1309			1268
BARIUM				<1			0			0

										Should Be:
SUS Viscosity @ 210F		Not Tested		77.3			66-78
cSt Viscosity @ 100C		15.0			14.84			11.9-15.3
Flashpoint in F		Not Tested		420			>410
Fuel %				<1			<0.5			<2.0
Antifreeze %			No			0.0			0.0
Water %				0.07			0.0			<0.1
Insolubles %			0.3			0.1			<0.8
TBN				7.2			8.3			>1.0
_________________________
06 GMC 2500HD DMAX EFILIVE RT6 5w-40 BALDWIN
12 VERSA SEDAN G-OIL Syn 5w-30 Puralotor P1

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#3274519 - 02/08/14 07:34 AM Re: Shell RT6, 5w-40, 21,466mi, 06 GMC Duramax [Re: DNVDMAX]
01_celica_gt Online   content


Registered: 07/29/13
Posts: 915
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Originally Posted By: DNVDMAX
Very pleased with these results.

Lab was ALS-Atlanta this time, I bought the NAPA $14 kit, and the universal averages are from my first Blackstone report.

I have to admit I got the OCI itch to dump it at 15k, but I could DNewton's voice in my head, "Don't do it," "that's wasteful." Thanks Dave.

I will probably just keep my OCI at 20k and sample for a health report.

I kept the "mild" EFI Live tune throughout the duration of this OCI. I also changed the Baldwin Oil filter @10k into the OCI and cleaned the AFE 7-layer air filter ~500mi into the OCI.

The .5 qt of makeup is due the filter change.

BTW, my wife and I still drive it like it's stolen, and it's saw plenty of short trips under 5mi.

Comments appreciated.


Code:
MI/HR on Oil			21,466			13,893			6,700
MI/HR on Unit			106671			85,205			
Sample Date			01/13/14		03/05/12		
Oil				Rotella T6 5w-40	Rotella T6 5w-40			
Make Up Oil Added		.5 qts (Filter)		0 qts			Univ Averages

ALUMINUM			6			6			2
CHROMIUM			<1			1			0
IRON				24			34			13
COPPER				4			14			13
LEAD				1			0			3
TIN				2			3			1
MOLYBDENUM			67			62			36
NICKEL				<1			0			0
MANGANESE			Not Tested		1			0
SILVER				<1			0			0
TITANIUM			<1			0			0
POTASSIUM			<5			7			4
BORON				23			38			89
SILICON				6			8			10
SODIUM				10			4			4
CALCIUM				860			970			2212
MAGNESIUM			1171			1258			376
PHOSPHORUS			1070			1098			1082
ZINC				1312			1309			1268
BARIUM				<1			0			0

										Should Be:
SUS Viscosity @ 210F		Not Tested		77.3			66-78
cSt Viscosity @ 100C		15.0			14.84			11.9-15.3
Flashpoint in F		Not Tested		420			>410
Fuel %				<1			<0.5			<2.0
Antifreeze %			No			0.0			0.0
Water %				0.07			0.0			<0.1
Insolubles %			0.3			0.1			<0.8
TBN				7.2			8.3			>1.0


WOW TBN of 7.2, couldn't you go significantly further?
_________________________
01 Celica GT 1ZZ-FED(Rebuilt @ 186) Auto @ 203k

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#3274528 - 02/08/14 07:41 AM Re: Shell RT6, 5w-40, 21,466mi, 06 GMC Duramax [Re: DNVDMAX]
LotI Online   content


Registered: 01/01/13
Posts: 348
Loc: America's Dairyland
Stellar TBN retention. Are we starting to see some thickening? I show virgin vis. At 14.2.

I am seeing that people who drive hard show great UOA's. Hmmm
_________________________
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12 Honda Accord 2.4L

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#3274605 - 02/08/14 09:01 AM Re: Shell RT6, 5w-40, 21,466mi, 06 GMC Duramax [Re: DNVDMAX]
DNVDMAX Offline


Registered: 11/20/07
Posts: 173
Loc: Alaska
Yeah I think although the TBN is great the thickening does raise an eyebrow. Even the sample seemed a little thick at room temp.

My EGR is disabled, but my PCV is intact.

Here is the UOA doc:
_________________________
06 GMC 2500HD DMAX EFILIVE RT6 5w-40 BALDWIN
12 VERSA SEDAN G-OIL Syn 5w-30 Puralotor P1

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#3274634 - 02/08/14 09:38 AM Re: Shell RT6, 5w-40, 21,466mi, 06 GMC Duramax [Re: DNVDMAX]
abycat Offline


Registered: 12/06/10
Posts: 1351
Loc: grande prairie AB
I bet 30k would look pretty close to what you have there. I wonder if it would be progressively thicker as km goes on. Those dmax are really nice on oil.
_________________________
1994 f-150 4x4
2011 nissan versa hb

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#3274668 - 02/08/14 10:02 AM Re: Shell RT6, 5w-40, 21,466mi, 06 GMC Duramax [Re: abycat]
01_celica_gt Online   content


Registered: 07/29/13
Posts: 915
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Originally Posted By: abycat
I bet 30k would look pretty close to what you have there. I wonder if it would be progressively thicker as km goes on. Those dmax are really nice on oil.


That UOA is in miles
_________________________
01 Celica GT 1ZZ-FED(Rebuilt @ 186) Auto @ 203k

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#3276124 - 02/09/14 04:21 PM Re: Shell RT6, 5w-40, 21,466mi, 06 GMC Duramax [Re: DNVDMAX]
dustyroads Offline


Registered: 05/13/13
Posts: 337
Loc: upstate NY
Would've been interesting to see TAN but everything looks excellent. It appears that you could go longer still if you wanted to, but do what you're comfortable with based on the info you now have.

I can't help but think even a conventional could get you 20k based on the dmax historical results. Then again maybe it would thicken much more than the t6 (?)


Edited by dustyroads (02/09/14 04:32 PM)
_________________________
2011 Taurus sel

2012 Volvo big rig with D11

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#3276294 - 02/09/14 07:45 PM Re: Shell RT6, 5w-40, 21,466mi, 06 GMC Duramax [Re: DNVDMAX]
dnewton3 Offline



Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 5717
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
Typical boring Dmax UOA. Nothing to be afraid of there; looks great. Air filter is doing great with the Si so low! Don't change it; it's doing exactly what you need it to do.


Perhaps consider getting a Fumoto valve; then you can sample first, and then only decide to change oil if the UOA indicates (which this would not). That is what I'm doing on mine; into my third year of the OCI. You might also consider a bypass system, if you drive far annually. Then you can really stretch the OCI!


Edited by dnewton3 (02/09/14 07:46 PM)
_________________________
Conventionals vs. Synthetics isn't about which is "better"; it's about which lasts longer, while assuring safe operation, in relation to cost. Any product can be over or under utilized. The same applies to filters.
Make an informed decision; first consider your operating conditions, next determine your maintenance plan, and then pick your lube and filter. Don't do it the other way around ...

Top
#3279066 - 02/12/14 08:27 AM Re: Shell RT6, 5w-40, 21,466mi, 06 GMC Duramax [Re: DNVDMAX]
A_Harman Offline


Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 4473
Loc: Michigan
Here is one of my oil analysis reports on RT6 in a Cummins at 24k miles:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3192153/01_Cummins_Dodge_Ram_2500,_243#Post3192153

Fairly similar numbers. TBN holds up well.
_________________________
1985 Z51 Corvette track car
2002 Camaro Z28 LS1/6-speed
2001 Dodge Ram 2500 diesel
1972 GMC 1500 shortbed project truck

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#3279950 - 02/12/14 08:01 PM Re: Shell RT6, 5w-40, 21,466mi, 06 GMC Duramax [Re: A_Harman]
DNVDMAX Offline


Registered: 11/20/07
Posts: 173
Loc: Alaska
A_Harman,

Wow, those numbers are pretty close. I even run similar boost levels at 35 psi.

I wonder how Mobil 1 TDT would compare. I bought a good stash when AZ was running their 12.99 special. I just hate to stray from something that is working fine.

I like the idea of putting a bypass on the truck, as DN3 stated above, but I don't know how much of an ROI I will see.

Off subject: Man do I miss my 2002 Z/28 like the one listed in your sig. I bought one from the Texas Department of Public Safety in 2003 with 2,100 miles on it. It had roll up windows, manual locks, and a radio with no CD player. I was able to get into the deep 11s for not much cash, I sold it in 2006. I liked the camaro more than the 2002 WS6 T/A that replaced it.
_________________________
06 GMC 2500HD DMAX EFILIVE RT6 5w-40 BALDWIN
12 VERSA SEDAN G-OIL Syn 5w-30 Puralotor P1

Top
#3281867 - 02/14/14 11:45 AM Re: Shell RT6, 5w-40, 21,466mi, 06 GMC Duramax [Re: DNVDMAX]
Black6spdZ Offline


Registered: 12/12/10
Posts: 17
Loc: MS
I bought my 07 with 20k on it and my first two oil changes filled it with M1 TDT, UOA at ~10k miles, copper was VERY high. Something in the M1 TDT leaches the copper from the oil cooler. Then I switched to T6 and it went back to normal.

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#3282619 - 02/15/14 04:50 AM Re: Shell RT6, 5w-40, 21,466mi, 06 GMC Duramax [Re: DNVDMAX]
dnewton3 Offline



Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 5717
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
Not just TDT. Amsoil and RP and RL have been known to do it as well. It's also happened with "normal" products, but at a much lower lever and frequency.

It's not harmful to the engine at all. But it has the ability to mask the onset of real problems, and by the time the overt spike of Cu from the chelation settles, the other problem may be a much bigger issue.

Look at the data in my "normalcy" article. Then consider what happens when we try to discover engine issues ...
If your Dmax were to average 3ppm over 7k miles, and you changed to a fluid that suddenly spike your Cu to 150ppm, you'd NEVER see any true shift in actual wear during that period. If it takes perhaps three successive OCIs to "flush" out the chelation from the reaction, and you try to get reasonable use of the syn fluid (perhaps 25k miles per OCI), then that represents 75k miles of driving around where you cannot see the trending due to wear in Cu.

Typically, we are looking for wear trending (three successive moves in the same direction in or out of range) to indicate an issue. Knowing the standard deviation helps here to understand what is "normal" for variance. Presume 3ppm in sigma allowance for an example.

So if you typically run 3ppm of Cu, and you start to get wear that shows 9 additional ppm of Cu, that would be a total of 12ppm of Cu in a "normal" OCI. We'd notice that for sure. But if you were at 120ppm of Cu due to the chelation, and you "add" in 9ppm of Cu wear, you'll never know it! It's too flipping hard to discern small wear shift from BIG chemical noise. How high can this get? I have documented data from one Dmax UOA where the Cu spiked to over 900ppm in the OCI. Yes - OVER NINE HUNDRED PPM! That is the most extreme case, but it's not uncommon to see 100-200ppm in an OCI often with this reaction.

Many folks would note that you can look for Pb to increase and if it's not there, to ignore the Cu spike. DANGEROUS! That is making a WHOLE lot of presumptions that cannot be thrown out like a blanket. Here are things to consider:
1) Pb avg (both macro and micro)
2) Pb std dev (macro and micro)
3) Engine family history
4) Engine family design (is Pb always present in the component design?)
5) External contributors to Pb?
I would agree that watching Pb is a good idea, but you cannot safely rely on it as a 100% effective communicative device to say you can simply ingore Cu. There are many times when Cu wear may be present, and no Pb shift takes place. They are not 100% mutually inclusive; they can be exclusive depending upon many other conditions.

These chemical Cu reactions are not harmful at all, but they completely mask part of the information we're seeking by doing a UOA in the first place.

I am not saying that one should never use those products. Nor am I saying that one should quit doing UOAs if you choose to use them. I am stating that you must understand all the benefits and limitations of every product you use, and that it's not just about the lube, but also the equipment and monitoring processes you select as well.


Edited by dnewton3 (02/15/14 04:53 AM)
_________________________
Conventionals vs. Synthetics isn't about which is "better"; it's about which lasts longer, while assuring safe operation, in relation to cost. Any product can be over or under utilized. The same applies to filters.
Make an informed decision; first consider your operating conditions, next determine your maintenance plan, and then pick your lube and filter. Don't do it the other way around ...

Top