RIP Philip Seymour Hoffman, age 46

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Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Originally Posted By: 02SE
It's tragic that shooting up was more important than his partner and kids well being. My condolences to them.


I'm sure his partner and kids will be fine with the fortune that he amassed, even while addled on drugs. And not only while being a junkie, at only talking roles that he found worthwhile and intriguing. By all accounts he never whored himself out for the money and still made a great living...


Yes, I'm sure it will be a great comfort to them as they go through life, knowing their partner and Father cared more about shooting up, than being there for them...
 
Originally Posted By: 02SE
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Originally Posted By: 02SE
It's tragic that shooting up was more important than his partner and kids well being. My condolences to them.


I'm sure his partner and kids will be fine with the fortune that he amassed, even while addled on drugs. And not only while being a junkie, at only talking roles that he found worthwhile and intriguing. By all accounts he never whored himself out for the money and still made a great living...


Yes, I'm sure it will be a great comfort to them as they go through life, knowing their partner and Father cared more about shooting up, than being there for them...


Thanks for the strawman-ism and false choice! It's a good thing we have empathetic mind readers like you that can distill things down to such simpleton terms for us all to understand.
crackmeup2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Originally Posted By: 02SE
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Originally Posted By: 02SE
It's tragic that shooting up was more important than his partner and kids well being. My condolences to them.


I'm sure his partner and kids will be fine with the fortune that he amassed, even while addled on drugs. And not only while being a junkie, at only talking roles that he found worthwhile and intriguing. By all accounts he never whored himself out for the money and still made a great living...


Yes, I'm sure it will be a great comfort to them as they go through life, knowing their partner and Father cared more about shooting up, than being there for them...


Thanks for the strawman-ism and false choice! It's a good thing we have empathetic mind readers like you that can distill things down to such simpleton terms for us all to understand.
crackmeup2.gif


I don't think being insulting toward another member is really warranted in this case. The poster was pointing out that your post was focused rather entirely on the financial aspects of this dead actors family, instead of what they really need....a father and loving companion that is stable. Yes, money is critical to survive...but when you sort of casually state...."I'm sure his partner and kids will be fine with the fortune that he amassed"...well, that implies that money is number one. That's all.
 
Well, I'm a bit offended at the notion that Hoffman simply "chose drugs over his children." Do the above posters realize that Hoffman attempted rehab several times and had quite heroin and relapsed. So obviously, he quite wanted to be with his children. His death was accidental -no question the result of foolish and ill advised behaviors- but in no way was he making some fundamental existential choice. According to a fellow addict friend, he was quite aware that he was potentially heading towards self-destruction, but took solace in the belief that if he died, his death might "save 10 addicts" from ever touching smack. Hopefully Hoffman's death will have some "existential" meaning in that perhaps more than 10 people will not try heroin or be more motivated to quit it. I think his picture alone -that of a 46 year old man going on 60- is enough to keep some kids off smack. In any case, I'm going to leave this thread with what I consider to be a dead-on commentary by actor comedian Russell Brand:

Quote:
From The Guardian

Russell Brand: Philip Seymour Hoffman is another victim of extremely stupid drug laws
Hoffman-brand-article-011.jpg

In Hoffman's domestic or sex life there is no undiscovered riddle – the man was a drug addict and, thanks to our drug laws, his death inevitable


Russell Brand
The Guardian, Thursday 6 February 2014

Philip Seymour Hoffman's death was not on the bill.

If it'd been the sacrifice of Miley Cyrus or Justin Bieber, that we are invited to anticipate daily, we could delight in the Faustian justice of the righteous dispatch of a fast-living, sequin-spattered denizen of eMpTyV. We are tacitly instructed to await their demise with necrophilic sanctimony. When the end comes, they screech on Fox and TMZ, it will be deserved. The Mail provokes indignation, luridly baiting us with the sidebar that scrolls from the headline down to (Hades).

But Philip Seymour Hoffman? A middle-aged man, a credible and decorated actor, the industrious and unglamorous artisan of Broadway and serious cinema? The disease of addiction recognises none of these distinctions. Whilst routinely described as tragic, Hoffman's death is insufficiently sad to be left un-supplemented in the mandatory posthumous scramble for salacious garnish; we will now be subjected to mourn-ography posing as analysis. I can assure you that there is no as yet undiscovered riddle in his domestic life or sex life, the man was a drug addict and his death inevitable.

A troubling component of this sad loss is the complete absence of hedonism. Like a lot of drug addicts, probably most, who "go over", Hoffman was alone when he died. This is an inescapably bleak circumstance. When we reflect on Bieber's Louis Vuitton embossed, Lamborghini cortege it is easy to equate addiction with indulgence and immorality. The great actor dying alone denies us this required narrative prang.

The reason I am so non-judgmental of Hoffman or Bieber and so condemnatory of the pop cultural tinsel that adorns the reporting around them is that I am a drug addict in recovery, so like any drug addict I know exactly how Hoffman felt when he "went back out". In spite of his life seeming superficially great, in spite of all the praise and accolades, in spite of all the loving friends and family, there is a predominant voice in the mind of an addict that supersedes all reason and that voice wants you dead. This voice is the unrelenting echo of an unfulfillable void.

Addiction is a mental illness around which there is a great deal of confusion, which is hugely exacerbated by the laws that criminalise drug addicts.

If drugs are illegal people who use drugs are criminals. We have set our moral compass on this erroneous premise, and we have strayed so far off course that the landscape we now inhabit provides us with no solutions and greatly increases the problem.

This is an important moment in history; we know that prohibition does not work. We know that the people who devise drug laws are out of touch and have no idea how to reach a solution. Do they even have the inclination? The fact is their methods are so gallingly ineffective that it is difficult not to deduce that they are deliberately creating the worst imaginable circumstances to maximise the harm caused by substance misuse.

People are going to use drugs; no self-respecting drug addict is even remotely deterred by prohibition. What prohibition achieves is an unregulated, criminal-controlled, sprawling, global mob-economy, where drug users, their families and society at large are all exposed to the worst conceivable version of this regrettably unavoidable problem.

Countries like Portugal and Switzerland that have introduced progressive and tolerant drug laws have seen crime plummet and drug-related deaths significantly reduced. We know this. We know this system doesn't work – and yet we prop it up with ignorance and indifference. Why? Wisdom is acting on knowledge. Now we are aware that our drug laws aren't working and that alternatives are yielding positive results, why are we not acting? Tradition? Prejudice? Extreme stupidity? The answer is all three. Change is hard, apathy is easy, tradition is the narcotic of our rulers. The people who are most severely affected by drug prohibition are dispensable, politically irrelevant people. Poor people. Addiction affects all of us but the poorest pay the biggest price.

Philip Seymour Hoffman's death is a reminder, though, that addiction is indiscriminate. That it is sad, irrational and hard to understand. What it also clearly demonstrates is that we are a culture that does not know how to treat its addicts. Would Hoffman have died if this disease were not so enmeshed in stigma? If we weren't invited to believe that people who suffer from addiction deserve to suffer? Would he have OD'd if drugs were regulated, controlled and professionally administered? Most importantly, if we insisted as a society that what is required for people who suffer from this condition is an environment of support, tolerance and understanding.

The troubling message behind Philip Seymour Hoffman's death, which we all feel without articulating, is that it was unnecessary and we know that something could be done. We also know what that something is and yet, for some traditional, prejudicial, stupid reason we don't do it.
 
Originally Posted By: Spazdog

Lupe Velez 1908-1944. "The Mexican Spitfire". Once married to Johnny Weissmuller. Swallowed an obscene amount of Seconal with the intent of being found dead on her bed surrounded by flowers. Actually found dead face down in the toilet.


http://willmckinley.wordpress.com/2012/0...lywood-babylon/

"Vogel quotes Clinton H. Anderson, chief of the Beverly Hills Police Department, who was first on the scene at 732 North Rodeo Drive that morning: “We found her dead in bed in her home."
 
It sure is tiring to see posts portraying this actor now as a "victim". The article from Russell Brand (noted drug user, alcoholic, bipolar and ADHD diagnosed) claims if these hard-core drugs were legally available, that addictions would be lessoned.
Opinions and conjecture often run rampant when well known people die from making poor choices. Excuses, such as Brand's article partially extolls, typically center around the nearly constant mantra of drug legalization being some sort of panacea of hope.
My opinion matters little in this discussion. I stand firm that only Hoffman is responsible for his death. No excuses....no sob stories...this foolish individual became an addict from his choices....in spite of numerous treatments from his self affliction he did not have the strength to overcome it. He failed. He DID choose to do drugs....nobody forced him to. He and ONLY HE is at fault here.
 
Russell is right about somethings, out to lunch on other IMO as a non-drug partaker.

First and foremost, of course addiction is a mental condition. Why, because that is what addiction does. It rewires the brain via different chemicals in response and because of the foreign substance introduction to the body system. It creates the dependency, makes the person push further and further and the edge becomes blurry. If one did not partake of the drug the rewiring would not partake, would not be addicted.

Anyone who partakes in drugs could and usually will be addicted to them. The escape, the rush, the altered reality is what lures in the first place. It is a basic human response that affects the body. It is a singular, self absorbed experience even among a group of people partaking at the same time. Anyone who is capable of rational thought knows that drug use has risks including dependency. What is the determining factor of a drug user vs a non-drug user? Choice. Non-users based on a variety of reasons simply choose not to partake. The drug user is always aware of the "first time" as it is a conscious decision to partake.

Since I have not and will never partake, I can't comment on what why a person would choose to, knowing there is never ever a positive outcome. I do know that we all are free agents in life and we are responsible for our choices. I know that human interaction and relationships are real and can be enduring throughout life. I value that over any temporary fix.

As far as monitored drug use is concerned, that is garbage. Just because it is monitored doesn't mean it's safe. Ask Micheal Jackson and others who have been asked to watch out for them while they partake. Monitoring removes personal care and responsibility to the hands of others. Increased dependence and cock-tailing will escalate because the next level of concentration is needed to produce that same experience. So if its controlled, will even more people partake now that somehow the risk is reduced? If users correspondingly increase, where does that leave society? There will still be addicts, even more of them but they are controlled addicts. There still will be people that go behind closed doors to get more of what wasn't given to them by the administrator. How will that affect the mind set of society, knowing that if you don't like something about your life, partake "risk free"? There will always be tough things in life, life is not perfect, because perfection is not human. Lets then talk about production of said drugs. Just because it is legal doesn't mean that there won't be cost cutting, and/or incorrect manufacturing ingredients and procedures. Will that get outsourced to foreign countries too to save costs? Slippery slippery slope IMO.

"Controlled use" is not the answer either. Abstinence is.

49.gif
 
Originally Posted By: andrewg
...claims if these hard-core drugs were legally available, that addictions would be lessoned.


And how is Big Brother making criminals out of people who require help working out so far?

Giving people heroin legally in a controlled environment has been tried several times - most famously in Switzerland just a few years ago - and it works to assist those who need the help.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2219559/

http://www.drugwarfacts.org/hatreatm.htm

It isn't perfect; but it moves in a positive direction and beats the holy snot out of having more people per capita in prison than China or North Korea or Cuba or anywhere else in the world.

Originally Posted By: andrewg
My opinion matters little in this discussion.


It matters plenty in this discussion. It is outside a silly web page on a motor oil discussion forum that these points and counter-points are consigned to oblivion.
 
I'm currently reading an excellent book right now, The Difference You Make by Pat Williams. Almost done with it. I picked it up at the library but it's very inspiring. Sure is a pick me up after reading about this guy's story. I was going to start a thread on it but thought I'd share it here first. Link:

http://www.amazon.com/Difference-You-Mak...by+pat+williams
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Well, I'm a bit offended at the notion that Hoffman simply "chose drugs over his children." Do the above posters realize that Hoffman attempted rehab several times and had quite heroin and relapsed. So obviously, he quite wanted to be with his children. His death was accidental -no question the result of foolish and ill advised behaviors- but in no way was he making some fundamental existential choice. According to a fellow addict friend, he was quite aware that he was potentially heading towards self-destruction, but took solace in the belief that if he died, his death might "save 10 addicts" from ever touching smack. Hopefully Hoffman's death will have some "existential" meaning in that perhaps more than 10 people will not try heroin or be more motivated to quit it. I think his picture alone -that of a 46 year old man going on 60- is enough to keep some kids off smack. In any case, I'm going to leave this thread with what I consider to be a dead-on commentary by actor comedian Russell Brand:

Quote:
From The Guardian

Russell Brand: Philip Seymour Hoffman is another victim of extremely stupid drug laws
Hoffman-brand-article-011.jpg

In Hoffman's domestic or sex life there is no undiscovered riddle – the man was a drug addict and, thanks to our drug laws, his death inevitable


Russell Brand
The Guardian, Thursday 6 February 2014

Philip Seymour Hoffman's death was not on the bill.

If it'd been the sacrifice of Miley Cyrus or Justin Bieber, that we are invited to anticipate daily, we could delight in the Faustian justice of the righteous dispatch of a fast-living, sequin-spattered denizen of eMpTyV. We are tacitly instructed to await their demise with necrophilic sanctimony. When the end comes, they screech on Fox and TMZ, it will be deserved. The Mail provokes indignation, luridly baiting us with the sidebar that scrolls from the headline down to (Hades).

But Philip Seymour Hoffman? A middle-aged man, a credible and decorated actor, the industrious and unglamorous artisan of Broadway and serious cinema? The disease of addiction recognises none of these distinctions. Whilst routinely described as tragic, Hoffman's death is insufficiently sad to be left un-supplemented in the mandatory posthumous scramble for salacious garnish; we will now be subjected to mourn-ography posing as analysis. I can assure you that there is no as yet undiscovered riddle in his domestic life or sex life, the man was a drug addict and his death inevitable.

A troubling component of this sad loss is the complete absence of hedonism. Like a lot of drug addicts, probably most, who "go over", Hoffman was alone when he died. This is an inescapably bleak circumstance. When we reflect on Bieber's Louis Vuitton embossed, Lamborghini cortege it is easy to equate addiction with indulgence and immorality. The great actor dying alone denies us this required narrative prang.

The reason I am so non-judgmental of Hoffman or Bieber and so condemnatory of the pop cultural tinsel that adorns the reporting around them is that I am a drug addict in recovery, so like any drug addict I know exactly how Hoffman felt when he "went back out". In spite of his life seeming superficially great, in spite of all the praise and accolades, in spite of all the loving friends and family, there is a predominant voice in the mind of an addict that supersedes all reason and that voice wants you dead. This voice is the unrelenting echo of an unfulfillable void.

Addiction is a mental illness around which there is a great deal of confusion, which is hugely exacerbated by the laws that criminalise drug addicts.

If drugs are illegal people who use drugs are criminals. We have set our moral compass on this erroneous premise, and we have strayed so far off course that the landscape we now inhabit provides us with no solutions and greatly increases the problem.

This is an important moment in history; we know that prohibition does not work. We know that the people who devise drug laws are out of touch and have no idea how to reach a solution. Do they even have the inclination? The fact is their methods are so gallingly ineffective that it is difficult not to deduce that they are deliberately creating the worst imaginable circumstances to maximise the harm caused by substance misuse.

People are going to use drugs; no self-respecting drug addict is even remotely deterred by prohibition. What prohibition achieves is an unregulated, criminal-controlled, sprawling, global mob-economy, where drug users, their families and society at large are all exposed to the worst conceivable version of this regrettably unavoidable problem.

Countries like Portugal and Switzerland that have introduced progressive and tolerant drug laws have seen crime plummet and drug-related deaths significantly reduced. We know this. We know this system doesn't work – and yet we prop it up with ignorance and indifference. Why? Wisdom is acting on knowledge. Now we are aware that our drug laws aren't working and that alternatives are yielding positive results, why are we not acting? Tradition? Prejudice? Extreme stupidity? The answer is all three. Change is hard, apathy is easy, tradition is the narcotic of our rulers. The people who are most severely affected by drug prohibition are dispensable, politically irrelevant people. Poor people. Addiction affects all of us but the poorest pay the biggest price.

Philip Seymour Hoffman's death is a reminder, though, that addiction is indiscriminate. That it is sad, irrational and hard to understand. What it also clearly demonstrates is that we are a culture that does not know how to treat its addicts. Would Hoffman have died if this disease were not so enmeshed in stigma? If we weren't invited to believe that people who suffer from addiction deserve to suffer? Would he have OD'd if drugs were regulated, controlled and professionally administered? Most importantly, if we insisted as a society that what is required for people who suffer from this condition is an environment of support, tolerance and understanding.

The troubling message behind Philip Seymour Hoffman's death, which we all feel without articulating, is that it was unnecessary and we know that something could be done. We also know what that something is and yet, for some traditional, prejudicial, stupid reason we don't do it.


I bolded the statement that really explains the tragedy of the situation. This person very well knew what he was doing would end in the worst possible way, and deprive his wife of a husband and his kids of a father, but only thought of how benevolent he was being by "sacrificing" his life to save untold and uncounted others.

What a narcassitic, self-gratifying load of bull puckey! The way I see it, this was just another death of a "human" being that was scraped from the bottom of the gene pool barrel. Nothing more and nothing less.

And for anything that Russell Brand says, that waste of space should have been taken out back and dispatched of years ago.
 
Originally Posted By: threeputtpar
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Well, I'm a bit offended at the notion that Hoffman simply "chose drugs over his children." Do the above posters realize that Hoffman attempted rehab several times and had quite heroin and relapsed. So obviously, he quite wanted to be with his children. His death was accidental -no question the result of foolish and ill advised behaviors- but in no way was he making some fundamental existential choice. According to a fellow addict friend, he was quite aware that he was potentially heading towards self-destruction, but took solace in the belief that if he died, his death might "save 10 addicts" from ever touching smack. Hopefully Hoffman's death will have some "existential" meaning in that perhaps more than 10 people will not try heroin or be more motivated to quit it. I think his picture alone -that of a 46 year old man going on 60- is enough to keep some kids off smack. In any case, I'm going to leave this thread with what I consider to be a dead-on commentary by actor comedian Russell Brand:

Quote:
From The Guardian

Russell Brand: Philip Seymour Hoffman is another victim of extremely stupid drug laws
Hoffman-brand-article-011.jpg

In Hoffman's domestic or sex life there is no undiscovered riddle – the man was a drug addict and, thanks to our drug laws, his death inevitable


Russell Brand
The Guardian, Thursday 6 February 2014

Philip Seymour Hoffman's death was not on the bill.

If it'd been the sacrifice of Miley Cyrus or Justin Bieber, that we are invited to anticipate daily, we could delight in the Faustian justice of the righteous dispatch of a fast-living, sequin-spattered denizen of eMpTyV. We are tacitly instructed to await their demise with necrophilic sanctimony. When the end comes, they screech on Fox and TMZ, it will be deserved. The Mail provokes indignation, luridly baiting us with the sidebar that scrolls from the headline down to (Hades).

But Philip Seymour Hoffman? A middle-aged man, a credible and decorated actor, the industrious and unglamorous artisan of Broadway and serious cinema? The disease of addiction recognises none of these distinctions. Whilst routinely described as tragic, Hoffman's death is insufficiently sad to be left un-supplemented in the mandatory posthumous scramble for salacious garnish; we will now be subjected to mourn-ography posing as analysis. I can assure you that there is no as yet undiscovered riddle in his domestic life or sex life, the man was a drug addict and his death inevitable.

A troubling component of this sad loss is the complete absence of hedonism. Like a lot of drug addicts, probably most, who "go over", Hoffman was alone when he died. This is an inescapably bleak circumstance. When we reflect on Bieber's Louis Vuitton embossed, Lamborghini cortege it is easy to equate addiction with indulgence and immorality. The great actor dying alone denies us this required narrative prang.

The reason I am so non-judgmental of Hoffman or Bieber and so condemnatory of the pop cultural tinsel that adorns the reporting around them is that I am a drug addict in recovery, so like any drug addict I know exactly how Hoffman felt when he "went back out". In spite of his life seeming superficially great, in spite of all the praise and accolades, in spite of all the loving friends and family, there is a predominant voice in the mind of an addict that supersedes all reason and that voice wants you dead. This voice is the unrelenting echo of an unfulfillable void.

Addiction is a mental illness around which there is a great deal of confusion, which is hugely exacerbated by the laws that criminalise drug addicts.

If drugs are illegal people who use drugs are criminals. We have set our moral compass on this erroneous premise, and we have strayed so far off course that the landscape we now inhabit provides us with no solutions and greatly increases the problem.

This is an important moment in history; we know that prohibition does not work. We know that the people who devise drug laws are out of touch and have no idea how to reach a solution. Do they even have the inclination? The fact is their methods are so gallingly ineffective that it is difficult not to deduce that they are deliberately creating the worst imaginable circumstances to maximise the harm caused by substance misuse.

People are going to use drugs; no self-respecting drug addict is even remotely deterred by prohibition. What prohibition achieves is an unregulated, criminal-controlled, sprawling, global mob-economy, where drug users, their families and society at large are all exposed to the worst conceivable version of this regrettably unavoidable problem.

Countries like Portugal and Switzerland that have introduced progressive and tolerant drug laws have seen crime plummet and drug-related deaths significantly reduced. We know this. We know this system doesn't work – and yet we prop it up with ignorance and indifference. Why? Wisdom is acting on knowledge. Now we are aware that our drug laws aren't working and that alternatives are yielding positive results, why are we not acting? Tradition? Prejudice? Extreme stupidity? The answer is all three. Change is hard, apathy is easy, tradition is the narcotic of our rulers. The people who are most severely affected by drug prohibition are dispensable, politically irrelevant people. Poor people. Addiction affects all of us but the poorest pay the biggest price.

Philip Seymour Hoffman's death is a reminder, though, that addiction is indiscriminate. That it is sad, irrational and hard to understand. What it also clearly demonstrates is that we are a culture that does not know how to treat its addicts. Would Hoffman have died if this disease were not so enmeshed in stigma? If we weren't invited to believe that people who suffer from addiction deserve to suffer? Would he have OD'd if drugs were regulated, controlled and professionally administered? Most importantly, if we insisted as a society that what is required for people who suffer from this condition is an environment of support, tolerance and understanding.

The troubling message behind Philip Seymour Hoffman's death, which we all feel without articulating, is that it was unnecessary and we know that something could be done. We also know what that something is and yet, for some traditional, prejudicial, stupid reason we don't do it.


I bolded the statement that really explains the tragedy of the situation. This person very well knew what he was doing would end in the worst possible way, and deprive his wife of a husband and his kids of a father, but only thought of how benevolent he was being by "sacrificing" his life to save untold and uncounted others.

What a narcassitic, self-gratifying load of bull puckey! The way I see it, this was just another death of a "human" being that was scraped from the bottom of the gene pool barrel. Nothing more and nothing less.

And for anything that Russell Brand says, that waste of space should have been taken out back and dispatched of years ago.

Lol....don't hold back now. I would have to say that for the most part I agree with everything you've said. Especially about Brand. He's led of life....and continues to lead one....that I find repugnant.
Just my opinion.
 
Originally Posted By: andrewg
...
Lol....don't hold back now. I would have to say that for the most part I agree with everything you've said. Especially about Brand. He's led of life....and continues to lead one....that I find repugnant.
Just my opinion.


What exactly do you find "repugnant" about Brand? He is clean and sober...
 
Originally Posted By: threeputtpar
...
What a narcassitic, self-gratifying load of bull puckey! The way I see it, this was just another death of a "human" being that was scraped from the bottom of the gene pool barrel. Nothing more and nothing less.

And for anything that Russell Brand says, that waste of space should have been taken out back and dispatched of years ago.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Smokescreen
...

"Controlled use" is not the answer either. Abstinence is.

49.gif




How would you explain the fact that alcoholism is lowest in European countries with the most permissive laws regarding age and alcohol consumption? Many places, teens drink with their parents early and somehow do not feel the need to binge drink in high school and college...
 
I don't have to explain anything. Different regions of the world have specific problems that might not be problems elsewhere. One area has problems with huffing, a different area has issues with a special kind of drug that some area have never heard of before, yet another with alcohol etc, etc. You can cherry pic examples of pretty much anything even as close as next door neighbors.

I do know that people that don't drink will never have an alcohol problem. I do know that people that never partake in drugs will never have a drug addiction problem. There is never a positive outcome from partaking in these things. I know that abstinence from addictive substances is universally applicable and 100% successful, and the reason why requires no explanation.
 
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Originally Posted By: andrewg
...
Lol....don't hold back now. I would have to say that for the most part I agree with everything you've said. Especially about Brand. He's led of life....and continues to lead one....that I find repugnant.
Just my opinion.


What exactly do you find "repugnant" about Brand? He is clean and sober...

Just about everything.
 
Originally Posted By: Smokescreen
I don't have to explain anything. Different regions of the world have specific problems that might not be problems elsewhere. One area has problems with huffing, a different area has issues with a special kind of drug that some area have never heard of before, yet another with alcohol etc, etc. You can cherry pic examples of pretty much anything even as close as next door neighbors.

I do know that people that don't drink will never have an alcohol problem. I do know that people that never partake in drugs will never have a drug addiction problem. There is never a positive outcome from partaking in these things. I know that abstinence from addictive substances is universally applicable and 100% successful, and the reason why requires no explanation.


So basically you're for prohibition?
 
No, I think he's stating there are benefits to being a teetotaler or abstainer. You don't OD on heroin if you don't use the product. You don't get charged for drunk driving if you don't consume alcohol.
 
I've never used heroin or any hard drug, so I guess I'm in agreement on that.

But what about opiates? Like ones prescribed for chronic pain where people become addicted? It seems to be one of the larger gateway drugs to heroin actually and is the biggest factor in heroin's comeback vogue, along with better supplies...

Also, the abstinence thing hasn't really worked, since that is basically the policy of North America, yet I think our rates are higher than those of Europe --where they don't turn alcohol into some demonic-water taboo...
 
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