Jack stands under "frame rails" on unibody cars

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So what is the consensus on this? Frame rails ok or not?

I'd be scared to lift on a control arm or subframe bolt because though the metal is strong, it could distort the rubber parts that connect everything to everything else. Don't want to play that game and throw alignment off.

Something flat against the frame rail does make an issue, especially if round, when just two wheels are up and so the car is angled. Not much of a contact point then. Think a quarter laying on a table top with just one side picked up slightly... All of a sudden there is just the leading edge of the circle touching, very minimal interface/contact area and perhaps more dangerous due to digging in or denting. Any thoughts on that? At minimum, I'd think a 1/8" rubber sheet should be an interface... So it can flex and give at that contact point.
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
So what is the consensus on this? Frame rails ok or not?

I'd be scared to lift on a control arm or subframe bolt because though the metal is strong, it could distort the rubber parts that connect everything to everything else. Don't want to play that game and throw alignment off.

Something flat against the frame rail does make an issue, especially if round, when just two wheels are up and so the car is angled. Not much of a contact point then. Think a quarter laying on a table top with just one side picked up slightly... All of a sudden there is just the leading edge of the circle touching, very minimal interface/contact area and perhaps more dangerous due to digging in or denting. Any thoughts on that? At minimum, I'd think a 1/8" rubber sheet should be an interface... So it can flex and give at that contact point.


I think the argument about fitment at an angle is a compelling reason to be careful. Personally I wouldn't do it without a good rubber pad either way but the discussion here has made me think that maybe standard stands are better for the frame rails anyway.

For my part, as the OP, I've decided to get a better rubber pad setup for the factory (pinch weld) jack points before moving to the frame rails on my car.
 
This seems like a good idea. Uni strut with a rubber liner. Do t see how the tilt comes into play though if two wheels are on the ground. Risk of a stand tilting is a big issue too.

100_4025.jpg


Because spreading force is the name of the game here... Otherwise we get this, which was shared here on BITOG before.

DzPUJ.jpg


Doesn't help with jackstand placement, but this strikes me as a good idea,mad it seems that if one had two jacks, then an entire car could be easily lifted completely evenly, preventing irregular forces or bending, and at that point, some of the aspects of danger from lowering onto stands would be moot. Perhaps the stands could even be used to support the brace vs car directly?

Harbor Freight Cross Brace
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2


Because spreading force is the name of the game here... Otherwise we get this, which was shared here on BITOG before.

DzPUJ.jpg




As was mentioned another time this was shared, whoever did that had no idea what they were doing. The jacking/support point on that car is the heavier piece of metal sticking below the pinch weld just to the right of the crushed area.

I don't think "spreading force" with a small adapter like the uni-strut you show would have helped in this situation, because the force would still be applied to the improper place next to the correct support point.

If they had lifted/supported the car on the provided factory point it would have been fine.

On my Sonata the factory life point is a reinforced part of the pinch weld. I use a simple piece of 2x4 on top of the jack to protect it from damage.
 
Originally Posted By: stephen9666
Originally Posted By: JHZR2


Because spreading force is the name of the game here... Otherwise we get this, which was shared here on BITOG before.

DzPUJ.jpg




As was mentioned another time this was shared, whoever did that had no idea what they were doing. The jacking/support point on that car is the heavier piece of metal sticking below the pinch weld just to the right of the crushed area.

I don't think "spreading force" with a small adapter like the uni-strut you show would have helped in this situation, because the force would still be applied to the improper place next to the correct support point.

If they had lifted/supported the car on the provided factory point it would have been fine.

On my Sonata the factory life point is a reinforced part of the pinch weld. I use a simple piece of 2x4 on top of the jack to protect it from damage.


If you use wood, be sure to mount it ACROSS the grain on the pinch weld. Mounting it along the grain might cause a split. Hardwood is better than soft like most 2 x 4's.
 
Originally Posted By: stephen9666
As was mentioned another time this was shared, whoever did that had no idea what they were doing. The jacking/support point on that car is the heavier piece of metal sticking below the pinch weld just to the right of the crushed area.

I don't think "spreading force" with a small adapter like the uni-strut you show would have helped in this situation, because the force would still be applied to the improper place next to the correct support point.

If they had lifted/supported the car on the provided factory point it would have been fine.

On my Sonata the factory life point is a reinforced part of the pinch weld. I use a simple piece of 2x4 on top of the jack to protect it from damage.


I agree, and perhaps I wasnt clear enough.

If we are to JACK the car up on the jackpoint, then the stand has to go someplace else. If we are going to put the stand on the jackpoint, then you have to lift the vehicle someplace else. Both are compromises that could cause damage. Since the thread was going the direction of putting a stand right on the jackpoint, then it begs the question again of how to do so, given that we dont want to put the jackstand force on the frame rail, but dont have anyplace else to life the vehicle from...

Thoughts???
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2

If we are to JACK the car up on the jackpoint, then the stand has to go someplace else. If we are going to put the stand on the jackpoint, then you have to lift the vehicle someplace else. Both are compromises that could cause damage. Since the thread was going the direction of putting a stand right on the jackpoint, then it begs the question again of how to do so, given that we dont want to put the jackstand force on the frame rail, but dont have anyplace else to life the vehicle from...

Thoughts???


Most vehicles in my experience have a central jacking point in the front and rear (although some seem to not have good ones in the rear). I've been lucky enough to always have such a jack point to use for lifting. But maybe this is less common on some brands?
 
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lower cars can be troublesome. And then you're lowering the car onto two separate points from one mid jacking point. Not sure how stable and good that is...
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
lower cars can be troublesome. And then you're lowering the car onto two separate points from one mid jacking point. Not sure how stable and good that is...


I've never done it any other way and haven't really had a problem due to that. Some cars have better jacking points than others. Both my car and my wife's (Subaru WRX and Mazda3) require driving up on a couple of thin pieces of wood even to get my relatively low profile jack under far enough to hit the jacking point behind the engine. On the Mazda, the jack point isn't even totally centered so one side always ends up a little higher than the other. But even the smallest stands I have are rated at 1.5 times the car's full weight so slowly lowering one end onto stands shouldn't be a problem, and hasn't been.
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
So what is the consensus on this? Frame rails ok or not?


A consensus is not reachable on this website. I AM NOT saying it is a bad website, the opposite is true, it's awesome. There is more than one way to skin a cat, and some think their way is the best and it might be, but then others would disagree. No consensus here. You must wade through the comments and decide for yourself. Afer a while, certain posters seem to achieve more credibility than others. Just saying. FWIW, I will lift on frame rails without hesitation.
 
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