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#3272040 - 02/06/14 12:28 AM Re: Mobil 5w50 SN VOA [Re: LoneRanger]
CATERHAM Online   content


Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 9712
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
Nice but how might it hold up in a shared sump motorcycle with wet clutch? There's your test for sheer stability! wink

Probably not that great since it's made with lighter base stocks than a 10W-40 4T oil. But there is only one way to find out, try it and report back.
_________________________
74 Lotus Europa 5W-50
86 Porsche 928S TGMO 0W-20 25%/M1 0W-40
96 BMW 328i Idemitsu/TGMO 0W-20 70%/M1 0W-40
94 Caterham 7 Sustina 0W-20 80%/0W-50

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#3272068 - 02/06/14 03:03 AM Re: Mobil 5w50 SN VOA [Re: CATERHAM]
Shannow Offline


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 27078
Loc: a prison island
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
Nice but how might it hold up in a shared sump motorcycle with wet clutch? There's your test for sheer stability! wink

Probably not that great since it's made with lighter base stocks than a 10W-40 4T oil. But there is only one way to find out, try it and report back.



Interested in how you can work that one out CATERHAM...got a hints for dummies on how to work out which base-stock is lighter ?

I look at the PDS for either and get a different answer re basestock weight.

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#3281044 - 02/13/14 06:08 PM Re: Mobil 5w50 SN VOA [Re: Shannow]
CATERHAM Online   content


Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 9712
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
5W oils use lighter base stocks than 10W oils, plus the the 5W-50 has a 180 VI, a further indication that relatively light base stocks are used. Are you going to argue with that?
_________________________
74 Lotus Europa 5W-50
86 Porsche 928S TGMO 0W-20 25%/M1 0W-40
96 BMW 328i Idemitsu/TGMO 0W-20 70%/M1 0W-40
94 Caterham 7 Sustina 0W-20 80%/0W-50

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#3283389 - 02/15/14 06:25 PM Re: Mobil 5w50 SN VOA [Re: CATERHAM]
Shannow Offline


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 27078
Loc: a prison island
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
5W oils use lighter base stocks than 10W oils, plus the the 5W-50 has a 180 VI, a further indication that relatively light base stocks are used. Are you going to argue with that?


Yes, I am going to argue with that.

firstly, 5W requiring lighter basestocks than 10W is a myth perpetuated even on the 101 on the front page... You don't "start with a 5W, and make it act like a 40/50 at the top end.

VII work both ends of the spectrum, improving the cold perforamnce, AS WELL AS the top end.

Don't believe me, then believe AFTON...

http://www.aftonchemical.com/ProductDataSheets/Lubricant%20Components/HiTEC-5710_PDS.pdf

Check out the treat rates of the 150N oil.

At a treat rate of 10%, in what's basically an ISO32 mineral oil, the characteristics are in the ballpark of the M1 5W-50 (very close, with a mineral, VI 100 basestock).

Note how the pour point has dropped from -15 to -42 in that example.

Note, this was a mineral "5W-50", with an ISO32 basestock.

Another manufacturer of VIIs (these are solid, not pre-diluted)
http://www.functionalproducts.com/Catalogs/Solid_VII_Products.pdf

Lists the starting oil for their 10W-40 recipe (page 4) as also an ISO 32...

So it's entirely possible that a 10W-40 and a 5W-50 could have identical basestocks...your assertion that the 40 has to have heavier basestocks because it's a 10W is not true.

As to why I called you out in the first place, looking at the PDS' for either oil
http://www.mobil.com/Australia-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil1_Racing_4T.aspx
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil1_5W-50.aspx

shows the 10W-40 has a flash point of 212C, while the 5W-50 has 231C...logically, the 5W-50 is made of "heavier" stuff than the 10W-40, most likely base-stocks, as the VII additives tend to be somewhat lower in FP.

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#3283570 - 02/15/14 10:04 PM Re: Mobil 5w50 SN VOA [Re: Matt_N]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 33985
Loc: New Jersey
Didn't realize this was a product available in NA!

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#3284398 - 02/16/14 05:52 PM Re: Mobil 5w50 SN VOA [Re: JHZR2]
CATERHAM Online   content


Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 9712
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Didn't realize this was a product available in NA!

Yes it's made and bottled in US quarts in the States but distribution is limited.
_________________________
74 Lotus Europa 5W-50
86 Porsche 928S TGMO 0W-20 25%/M1 0W-40
96 BMW 328i Idemitsu/TGMO 0W-20 70%/M1 0W-40
94 Caterham 7 Sustina 0W-20 80%/0W-50

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#3285423 - 02/17/14 05:14 PM Re: Mobil 5w50 SN VOA [Re: CATERHAM]
dailydriver Offline


Registered: 03/14/06
Posts: 7157
Loc: Bucks County, Pa.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Didn't realize this was a product available in NA!

Yes it's made and bottled in US quarts in the States but distribution is limited.


Some NAPAs and select speed shops carry it.
_________________________
2000 Z28 1SC 6 speed 175K miles
Red Line 0W-40/Sustina 0W-20 (20/80 mix)
Fram Ultra filter
Synpower 75W-140/4oz. XL-3
Red Line D4 in the T56

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#3285433 - 02/17/14 05:27 PM Re: Mobil 5w50 SN VOA [Re: dailydriver]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7629
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Didn't realize this was a product available in NA!

Yes it's made and bottled in US quarts in the States but distribution is limited.


Some NAPAs and select speed shops carry it.



I got like 10 quarts in my yard sale oil score a few years ago. I tried it in my Harley. Didn't like it.
In hindsight I should have saved it.
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#3286478 - 02/18/14 05:32 PM Re: Mobil 5w50 SN VOA [Re: Clevy]
Wilhelm_D Offline


Registered: 01/28/09
Posts: 818
Loc: Tacoma, WA
Originally Posted By: Clevy
How exactly is dumping oil that isn't depleted and replacing it with oil that isn't depleted "cheap insurance"

Price oil. Price an engine. Voila!

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#3286521 - 02/18/14 06:12 PM Re: Mobil 5w50 SN VOA [Re: Wilhelm_D]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7629
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D
Originally Posted By: Clevy
How exactly is dumping oil that isn't depleted and replacing it with oil that isn't depleted "cheap insurance"

Price oil. Price an engine. Voila!




That makes no sense.
How does draining oil that is still serviceable,and replacing it with oil that is serviceable cheap insurance. If the oil isn't depleted then its performing the same as new oil.
Actually since engine oil requires some oxidation to perform as intended the old oil is providing better protection.

Wanna try that voila again?
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#3286563 - 02/18/14 07:05 PM Re: Mobil 5w50 SN VOA [Re: Clevy]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 11756
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Looking at the math, what I saved on oil and filters in the taxis by doubling the OCI and sticking to conventional was significant. Going to manufacturers recommended OCIs and synthetics for "cheap insurance" would have bought each taxi a brand new crate engine at the end of their service life, which wasn't needed anyhow since the engines ran fine while everything else was falling apart.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Hastings LF113
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

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#3297894 - 03/01/14 12:37 AM Re: Mobil 5w50 SN VOA [Re: Matt_N]
Shannow Offline


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 27078
Loc: a prison island
$36 for 5 litres today at Supercheap...

Bought the limit (1).

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#3298347 - 03/01/14 02:50 PM Re: Mobil 5w50 SN VOA [Re: Shannow]
dailydriver Offline


Registered: 03/14/06
Posts: 7157
Loc: Bucks County, Pa.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
$36 for 5 litres today at Supercheap...

Bought the limit (1).


For the M1 5W-50??

If so, then they are giving it away considering the normal Ozzie prices!!
_________________________
2000 Z28 1SC 6 speed 175K miles
Red Line 0W-40/Sustina 0W-20 (20/80 mix)
Fram Ultra filter
Synpower 75W-140/4oz. XL-3
Red Line D4 in the T56

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#3298416 - 03/01/14 04:20 PM Re: Mobil 5w50 SN VOA [Re: Matt_N]
Shannow Offline


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 27078
Loc: a prison island
Yep, half price on 5W-30, 0W-40, and 5W-50.

last 5L bottle of M1 in my store, so word is out.

Bought some shell helix for less than $3/l the other day.

Something's moving

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#3304551 - 03/07/14 02:18 PM Re: Mobil 5w50 SN VOA [Re: Clevy]
Matt_N Offline


Registered: 11/05/10
Posts: 58
Loc: Akron, OH
Originally Posted By: Clevy
How exactly is dumping oil that isn't depleted and replacing it with oil that isn't depleted "cheap insurance"

Sounds more like expensive insurance considering if the tbn is at 7 and starts at 9 or 10 you've effectively thrown money out the window.
Cheap insurance,right,because the oil is some kind of risk.


Simple. Rather than spending $35 on a UOA+TBN, I spend $40 and put fresh oil in. I periodically send samples to make sure wear metals are in order, but not every OCI. If, as you suggest, I were using UOA+TBN to make sure I was getting every last ounce of life out of the oil, I'd be spending hundreds in oil analyses before finally changing the oil.

My engine spends about 25% of it's total miles at Mid Ohio Sports Car Course or Watkins Glen. Under those conditions, I'd rather have the piece of mind of KNOWING my oil is fresh, instead of wondering if the next sample is going to come back with TBN of 0.9 or KV@100C of 11.0 and wear metals through the roof. So to me, the $5 difference between sending in a sample or just changing the oil is cheap insurance.

Nevermind that Porsche re-manufactured engine is $13,000 + 30hrs labor.

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