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#3281725 - 02/14/14 10:10 AM Re: PEA and Amine-based Fuel System Additives [Re: MolaKule]
StevieBoy Offline


Registered: 08/06/12
Posts: 135
Loc: Central Florida
Excellent info! Love it. Thank you, thank you, thank you....
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#3380078 - 05/24/14 02:20 PM Re: PEA and Amine-based Fuel System Additives [Re: MolaKule]
morris Offline


Registered: 08/24/08
Posts: 3681
Loc: ks, wichita
my mom told me that iam NEVER to old to learn. the older i get the more i know i dont know much at all. thanks.

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#3381923 - 05/27/14 04:18 AM Re: PEA and Amine-based Fuel System Additives [Re: MolaKule]
pbm Offline


Registered: 04/19/04
Posts: 5619
Loc: New York
Thanks Molakule...great info as usual.

"It is believed that the polar polyetheramine’s attach to the hydrocarbon deposit and via thermodynamic activation, softens the carbon. The flowstream across the valves and inside the combustion chamber then blow the hydrocarbon deposits to the exhaust stream.

Increases in hydrocarbon loads not only exit the exhaust stream, but can also enter the oil. It is always a good idea to change the oil after using a strong fuel system cleaner."


This is what I've always believed and is the reason I run a PEA FSC near the end of my OCI. I also believe it is better to run it during short trip driving (several stop and starts to allow the PEA to 'soak in' to the valves etc...) rather than on a long highway drive. It seems like a long highway drive is a good thing subsequent to the FSC treatment (to blow out the previously softened carbon).

I've also always felt that using FSC's in warmer weather was more effective but I'm probably being anal....




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#3435356 - 07/25/14 02:05 PM Re: PEA and Amine-based Fuel System Additives [Re: MolaKule]
RF Overlord Offline


Registered: 11/08/03
Posts: 3373
Loc: Cape Cod, MA
Mola is da' MAN... thumbsup
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#3435616 - 07/25/14 06:24 PM Re: PEA and Amine-based Fuel System Additives [Re: MolaKule]
Rosetta Offline


Registered: 07/06/14
Posts: 211
Loc: Sta Catarina, Br
"Most amine compounds are made by the reaction of some form of ammonia, NH3, with other chemicals."

Witch other chemicals would be?
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#3436404 - 07/26/14 02:54 PM Re: PEA and Amine-based Fuel System Additives [Re: Rosetta]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 15387
Loc: Iowegia - USA
Originally Posted By: Rosetta
"Most amine compounds are made by the reaction of some form of ammonia, NH3, with other chemicals."

Witch other chemicals would be?


Too long a list to post here.

One can always consult an Organic Chemistry book and see some of the other compounds.

One could always start here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amine
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#3436582 - 07/26/14 06:26 PM Re: PEA and Amine-based Fuel System Additives [Re: Quest]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 8816
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: Quest
Mola,

Your valuable contribution to this BITOG community is highly appreciated as always.

Q.



I couldn't agree more.

Thanks Molekule
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#3436819 - 07/26/14 10:13 PM Re: PEA and Amine-based Fuel System Additives [Re: MolaKule]
Rosetta Offline


Registered: 07/06/14
Posts: 211
Loc: Sta Catarina, Br
No, just look for most epoxy (like Araldite) glue, the hardener part is mostly PEA. Jeffamine D400 (Huntsman) or Baxxodur EC302 (BASF), they're pure PEA.
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#3436950 - 07/27/14 12:51 AM Re: PEA and Amine-based Fuel System Additives [Re: Rosetta]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 15387
Loc: Iowegia - USA
Originally Posted By: Rosetta
No, just look for most epoxy (like Araldite) glue, the hardener part is mostly PEA. Jeffamine D400 (Huntsman) or Baxxodur EC302 (BASF), they're pure PEA.


The current topic and the one that is the focus of this discussion
is PEA and Amine-based Fuel System Additives.

We're not discussing adhesives, curing agents, or cutting fluids or any other off-topic compound.
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#3437146 - 07/27/14 09:13 AM Re: PEA and Amine-based Fuel System Additives [Re: MolaKule]
Rosetta Offline


Registered: 07/06/14
Posts: 211
Loc: Sta Catarina, Br
I'm sorry, I thought I was discussing some PEA also, where it is also found. smile
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#3549353 - 11/27/14 11:09 AM Re: PEA and Amine-based Fuel System Additives [Re: pbm]
dkryan Offline


Registered: 04/11/03
Posts: 1784
Loc: Cincinnati
Originally Posted By: pbm
............This is what I've always believed and is the reason I run a PEA FSC near the end of my OCI. I also believe it is better to run it during short trip driving (several stop and starts to allow the PEA to 'soak in' to the valves etc...) rather than on a long highway drive. It seems like a long highway drive is a good thing subsequent to the FSC treatment (to blow out the previously softened carbon)................


I used to believe the same thing. However, Gumout recently posted a Q&A as part of the introduction of their new "multi-system fuel additive." In that Q&A they said that it was better to use the product during a long drive rather than several shorter trips. They went on to say that the performance of the product was dependent upon combustion chamber temperature and that a sustained higher temp would create a better cleaning environment than would several shorter (and possibly lower temp) trips.

Clearly the above is paraphrased. More info is available wherever that particular thread is located.
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#3552226 - 12/01/14 10:19 AM Re: PEA and Amine-based Fuel System Additives [Re: MolaKule]
Vikas Offline


Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 9094
Loc: NorthEast
As far as I know, once you are driving at sustained high speed, the temperature stabilizes and does not keep on increasing. Also I have often seen higher engine coolant temperature during stop and go driving than (barely illegal) high speed highway runs.

Only yesterday I advised my son to NOT use it up on a 450 mile one way MA->VA trip.

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#3565631 - 12/14/14 09:27 PM Re: PEA and Amine-based Fuel System Additives [Re: MolaKule]
ltslimjim Offline


Registered: 08/06/10
Posts: 5348
Loc: WatUpDoc
^I perhaps could see if you had a bit of cleaning needed that making sure you drive for a good while to help burn the crud away once it starts moving? ...but if an engine is just getting a nice yearly bottle dosage and is 'relatively' clean I doubt it matters.

On the other hand, if you are short tripping and stay in open-loop + combustion doesn't really get up to full operating temp then maybe that'd lessen product effectiveness.
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#3590070 - 01/06/15 11:08 AM Re: PEA and Amine-based Fuel System Additives [Re: MolaKule]
vo_marz Offline


Registered: 06/23/11
Posts: 128
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
One question for you guys to ponder:

Quote:
The primary use of PEA’s in fuel is to control intake valve and combustion chamber deposits.


In a DI engine, is this still true?


If the intake isnt wetted by any way, wont it stay clean as there is no gas to deposite varnish and gunk on it ? The intake valve that is

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#3590403 - 01/06/15 05:14 PM Re: PEA and Amine-based Fuel System Additives [Re: MolaKule]
Pontual Offline


Registered: 10/08/14
Posts: 319
Loc: SANTOS, BR
I believe in that case (as in any) the carbon deposits come from the engine oil that goes down the seals and endup in the valve stem/tulips. The hardest crude carbon is from the cooked oil (coke), mostly after engine shutdown (static valves doesn't get the moviment [centripeta] cleansing and become the hottest as it ever get).


Edited by Pontual (01/06/15 05:19 PM)

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