What anti-wear additives in lower SAPS oils?

[vinu_neuro]

Molakule, do you know what anti-wear additives are being used in the lower SAPS oils from the big companies (Inifinium, Lubrizol, etc) to meet standards like 229.51? For example, 229.51 oils have to meet the same wear requirements while being limited to 800ppm phosphorous. UOA's of these oils don't show anything else (like titanium). I've read you saying RLI is using antimony. Any idea about the big boys? The heavy-duty diesel oils like 228.51 are equally, if not more, impressive also constrained to 800 ppm phosphorous but also meet the requirements of CJ-4 and other OEM specs.

 

[MolaKule]

1. specific ester chemistry's such as polymer esters,

2. special dithiocarbamates.

Antimony is a multifunctional additive in that it is a friction modifier/anti-wear/anti-oxidant agent.


Quote:
UOA's of these oils don't show anything else (like titanium).


VOA's won't show any of these new organic compounds.

 

[A_Harman]

Would the Antimony show up in a VOA?

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Would the Antimony show up in a VOA?


Some labs will test for Antimony and sulfur if requested but will charge extra.

 

[bruce381]

LZ uses more stable ZDDP aswell as moly and boron will show as <100ppm tho

 

[Whitewolf]

If you request. It is used as a tracer in some lubricants to ensure that the correct product is being used.

 

[benjy]

oil technology and requirements are ever changing. lower zddp to protect the cats and the manufacturers warranty $$$$. 5-20 oils are a farce as well to get a half MPG, even newer diesel oils have a different chemistry, very interesting reading for sure trying to learn + keep up with the "BULL" being put out by manufacturers. they are like the drug companies pushing big $$$ meds that have more "side effects" than benefits!!!!

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:
...they are like the drug companies pushing big $$$ meds that have more "side effects" than benefits!!!!


If you are talking about ashless Anti-Wear additives, I suggest you read up some more.

 

[kschachn]

Wow, you sure know a lot about motor oil technology and the internal engineering processes of the oil companies. A bit of mind reading too!

This kind of insider information is one of the reasons I come to BITOG.

Originally Posted By: benjy
oil technology and requirements are ever changing. lower zddp to protect the cats and the manufacturers warranty $$$$. 5-20 oils are a farce as well to get a half MPG, even newer diesel oils have a different chemistry, very interesting reading for sure trying to learn + keep up with the "BULL" being put out by manufacturers. they are like the drug companies pushing big $$$ meds that have more "side effects" than benefits!!!!

 

[userfriendly]

Pharmaceutical chemical companies don't push drugs, they invent them. The "drugs" are initially expensive to pay for the R+D, testing and copyright protection.
The bio-chem,,(PHd pharm) has to work 5 years in the industry just to pay back tuition.
Want to live a long life drug free?
Quit smoking, drinking, lose 150 lbs and get out from in front of the computer.
Micro wave ovens, color TVs and computers were at one time a major purchase.
If the latest and greatest SN-GF-5, CJ-4 oil that cost $3.95 a liter now, were available 25 years ago, what would they have cost in 2014 dollars?