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#3285031 - 02/17/14 10:33 AM Re: Colt45's Trans swap chronicles [Re: OVERKILL]
Brent_G Offline


Registered: 07/12/11
Posts: 406
Loc: Aberdeen SD
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
[quote=Colt45ws
Yup, I seen pictures where someone put 4.10s in a CV and left the civilian steel shaft in.
I think he was going 95mph and the transmission tailshaft housing exploded. Caused a lot of damage underneath as the thing flopped about until he got it stopped.
Course, the trans was gone too. Not only was the tail housing gone the casing itself was cracked.
Thinking about it, itll probably be worth it to invest in a driveshaft loop. Metco makes one for these cars.


I grenaded a stock Mustang yoke and it blew the tailstock off the transmission. I was probably only doing about 80(km/h) but holy *bleep* did that make a lot of bad noises banging around on top of the H-pipe crzy It marked up the tunnel quite badly.


Mine came right through the floorboard in a 63 cadillac! Ripped the back seat to shreds and would have been a REAL problem for anyone back there!


WOW!! shocked [/quote]

Driveshaft loops are amazing things haha.

The amount of damage a drive shaft can do is downright scary. I've seen a fair share of it from a few different friends who followed the classic style of big engine, leave everything else stock. Lets just say i'm glad I wasn't in back.

Same with trans... Some can become a bomb when pushed outside their limits.
_________________________
05 Grand Prix GTP Delo LE 5w40
01 Ford F150 Havoline 5w20
06 Yamaha R1
69 Roadrunner 528 Hemi
M1 0w40
68 Dart GTS 512
71 Superbee's 440 and 383
87 Camaro 454

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#3285041 - 02/17/14 10:41 AM Re: Colt45's Trans swap chronicles [Re: Colt45ws]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 25659
Loc: Ontario, Canada
That reminds me of a rather crazy one I saw: The flywheel on a Camaro come off at the strip at WOT and fly out the cowl in pieces. It cut through a chunk of the trans tunnel and was extremely close to removing the driver's gas pedal foot from what I learned later.
_________________________
Network Engineer
02 Expedition
01 BMW ///M5
05 Forester XT

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#3285110 - 02/17/14 11:34 AM Re: Colt45's Trans swap chronicles [Re: OVERKILL]
Brent_G Offline


Registered: 07/12/11
Posts: 406
Loc: Aberdeen SD
If its one thing that will catastrophically destroy a drivetrain its the strip haha. The worst i ever experienced was in our superbee. 4100 lb car, built 440 on a 150 shot, and a mildly built 727. Let off the transbrake at launch and grenaded the front drum inside of it.

Thankfully it was only a temporary transmission while the th400 was being rebuilt and we had a scatter shield/diaper under it. It completely blew the center out and ripped the shield right off. The tail was still hanging from the rear mount and the bell housing was still bolted to the block...just nothing in between. Without that shield I cant imagine the things that would have came through the floor pan.
_________________________
05 Grand Prix GTP Delo LE 5w40
01 Ford F150 Havoline 5w20
06 Yamaha R1
69 Roadrunner 528 Hemi
M1 0w40
68 Dart GTS 512
71 Superbee's 440 and 383
87 Camaro 454

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#3285453 - 02/17/14 05:44 PM Re: Colt45's Trans swap chronicles [Re: SteveSRT8]
Jarlaxle Offline


Registered: 02/02/12
Posts: 3781
Loc: New England
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Colt45ws
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Good, just glad you are aware of the stresses by shorter gears.

Lots of folks find out after they destroy the floor pan after failure!!!

My sympathies on the cash thing, this sort of stuff never happens when you're ready for it...

Yup, I seen pictures where someone put 4.10s in a CV and left the civilian steel shaft in.
I think he was going 95mph and the transmission tailshaft housing exploded. Caused a lot of damage underneath as the thing flopped about until he got it stopped.
Course, the trans was gone too. Not only was the tail housing gone the casing itself was cracked.
Thinking about it, itll probably be worth it to invest in a driveshaft loop. Metco makes one for these cars.


I grenaded a stock Mustang yoke and it blew the tailstock off the transmission. I was probably only doing about 80(km/h) but holy *bleep* did that make a lot of bad noises banging around on top of the H-pipe crzy It marked up the tunnel quite badly.


Mine came right through the floorboard in a 63 cadillac! Ripped the back seat to shreds and would have been a REAL problem for anyone back there!


Liz lost the driveshaft on her Grand National a while back. Note: some u-joints do not like wrinkle-wall slicks, 3900lb cars, and 800+HP! No major carnage (didn't even take out the trans!), but the last foot of the drive shaft took on this interesting "S" shape...

The car now uses non-greaseable (read: not drilled for grease passages) Spicers. And yes, it DOES have a scattershield!
_________________________
1979 Coupe de Ville, 542 stroker, Super Tech 15W40, Purolator
1995 Dakota, 5.2, VWB 10W-30, Motorcraft
2012 Suzuki AN400A, unknown

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#3285494 - 02/17/14 06:26 PM Re: Colt45's Trans swap chronicles [Re: Jarlaxle]
Colt45ws Offline


Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 7359
Loc: Central Washington
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Colt45ws

Yup, I seen pictures where someone put 4.10s in a CV and left the civilian steel shaft in.
I think he was going 95mph and the transmission tailshaft housing exploded. Caused a lot of damage underneath as the thing flopped about until he got it stopped.
Course, the trans was gone too. Not only was the tail housing gone the casing itself was cracked.
Thinking about it, itll probably be worth it to invest in a driveshaft loop. Metco makes one for these cars.


I grenaded a stock Mustang yoke and it blew the tailstock off the transmission. I was probably only doing about 80(km/h) but holy *bleep* did that make a lot of bad noises banging around on top of the H-pipe crzy It marked up the tunnel quite badly.


Mine came right through the floorboard in a 63 cadillac! Ripped the back seat to shreds and would have been a REAL problem for anyone back there!


Liz lost the driveshaft on her Grand National a while back. Note: some u-joints do not like wrinkle-wall slicks, 3900lb cars, and 800+HP! No major carnage (didn't even take out the trans!), but the last foot of the drive shaft took on this interesting "S" shape...

The car now uses non-greaseable (read: not drilled for grease passages) Spicers. And yes, it DOES have a scattershield!

So much destruction in this thread, and I haven't even torn down the old trans yet!
_________________________
-Colton
2004 Ford Crown Vic LX, 76k "Tank" Back in Service
2002 Ford Crown Vic PI, 160k "Highwayman" (Ex-Kootenai County, ID Unit #42)

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#3285657 - 02/17/14 08:38 PM Re: Colt45's Trans swap chronicles [Re: Colt45ws]
Colt45ws Offline


Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 7359
Loc: Central Washington
Went and bought some Schaeffers #204SAT from a local distributor.

I love this stuff. Cost me a pretty penny. Im probably going to use a whole case just to get it running. Then I have to also refill the power steering since it shares the cooler with the transmission. That's a couple quarts. Need some for top-up from changing the Racor filter. I think Ill probably have about 6 quarts left all said and done.
Also did this.

Yeah, I painted the flexplate. Yeah, Im a dork. No Im not trying to avoid going under it and actually working on it. Stop looking at me like that.


Edited by Colt45ws (02/17/14 08:38 PM)
_________________________
-Colton
2004 Ford Crown Vic LX, 76k "Tank" Back in Service
2002 Ford Crown Vic PI, 160k "Highwayman" (Ex-Kootenai County, ID Unit #42)

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#3348207 - 04/20/14 02:21 PM Re: Colt45's Trans swap chronicles [Re: Colt45ws]
Colt45ws Offline


Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 7359
Loc: Central Washington
So, I got tired of not making any progress.
I bought three prybars trying to find one that would help me remove the transmission crossmember.
I finally had enough when I had a 3ft prybar stuck in the crossmemeber, and Im standing up, jumping on the thing and its not moving at all.
All I had managed to do was bend the crossmember and the frame mounts.
It'd probably be different if I had a car lift and could work under it, but with the limited clearance it really hindered getting a swing with a hammer and how the prybar could be positioned. Really limited stuff to get leverage off of besides the floor pan.
So I bought this stuff:

I started off trying to cut it through a thin spot to let me leverage one side out, then the other.
Then I got the idea to just make a relief cut in the top of it on one side. That worked beautifully. I had to make a large cut in the bottom to get my small 4 1/2" grinder in there, but once I did that and made the cut it slid out with relative ease. Then I wiggled it up and down, hammered, wiggled it some more; eventually worked it out of the other frame pocket.

I have another crossmember I bought off ebay on the way. This one is scrap.
Trans should be out here soon.


Edited by Colt45ws (04/20/14 02:22 PM)
_________________________
-Colton
2004 Ford Crown Vic LX, 76k "Tank" Back in Service
2002 Ford Crown Vic PI, 160k "Highwayman" (Ex-Kootenai County, ID Unit #42)

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#3348247 - 04/20/14 03:44 PM Re: Colt45's Trans swap chronicles [Re: Colt45ws]
Colt45ws Offline


Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 7359
Loc: Central Washington

Draining it again in preparation for the autopsy.


Edited by Colt45ws (04/20/14 03:45 PM)
_________________________
-Colton
2004 Ford Crown Vic LX, 76k "Tank" Back in Service
2002 Ford Crown Vic PI, 160k "Highwayman" (Ex-Kootenai County, ID Unit #42)

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#3348622 - 04/20/14 09:55 PM Re: Colt45's Trans swap chronicles [Re: Colt45ws]
Colt45ws Offline


Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 7359
Loc: Central Washington
I know I can attract some views with some...
DESTRUCTION PHOTOS!

First bad thing that came tumbling out was the large stub shaft piece. Everything before that was good, even the [censored] OD band was prestine.

Once I got the direct clutch out, I had to hammer the small piece out of it.

Yeah, thats scrap.

Also scrap.

Clutches were a bit wierd. The first three (coming in from the front of the trans), were good to near mint. Then the forth one was tore up on one side a bit and wiped clean on the other. The rest following were also wiped clean.
_________________________
-Colton
2004 Ford Crown Vic LX, 76k "Tank" Back in Service
2002 Ford Crown Vic PI, 160k "Highwayman" (Ex-Kootenai County, ID Unit #42)

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#3348917 - 04/21/14 08:58 AM Re: Colt45's Trans swap chronicles [Re: Colt45ws]
Colt45ws Offline


Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 7359
Loc: Central Washington
So, I talked with someone knowledgeable in these transmissions and the bushings getting torn up and seizing on the sun gear and planetary are fairly common.
What is uncommon is the stub shaft breaking at my power level. Its a known weak point, but really only affects modified cars 400RWHP+
Not really 220RWHP (On a good day) lightly modded vehicles.
We discussed the probability of it being the tune. He said there have been complaints coming in lately about shift issues with the person I had do my tune.
I told him I had put a wideband on the car and found the tune was giving me a WOT AFR of ~14:1 which is [censored] lean. Surprised I havent melted the cats. Good thing its N/A or I would've surely melted a piston.
That has nothing to do with the trans; but it makes you wonder how the rest of the tune is.
Before I bring it back into service Im getting the SCT Pro Racer software and Ill build my own tune which is the purpose I bought a wideband for anyway.
_________________________
-Colton
2004 Ford Crown Vic LX, 76k "Tank" Back in Service
2002 Ford Crown Vic PI, 160k "Highwayman" (Ex-Kootenai County, ID Unit #42)

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#3353725 - 04/26/14 09:59 AM Re: Colt45's Trans swap chronicles [Re: Colt45ws]
Colt45ws Offline


Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 7359
Loc: Central Washington
Minor update:
First, More parts:


For doing the VB modification on the new trans. Im going to do that this weekend and have it ready for install next weekend. My new crossmember will not be here until Monday, so I can't install it anyway.

Got a O2 bung welded into the driver side cat for my wideband sensor. I had pre-marked the location prior to removing it from the car. I picked a location with a fair amount of flexibility so the location didnt have to be machinist precise to make it fit. It was $30 to have it done off the car like this.

New flexplate installed. This is a later 'dual pattern' flex plate that can accept either the 12" 'standard' or 11.25" 'performance' torque converter.



Edited by Colt45ws (04/26/14 10:04 AM)

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#3353748 - 04/26/14 10:34 AM Re: Colt45's Trans swap chronicles [Re: Colt45ws]
The_Eric Offline


Registered: 03/31/10
Posts: 3150
Loc: Iowa
Thanks for keeping us updated! Keep 'em coming.
_________________________
2001 Hyundai Elantra 2.0
1998 Chevy Malibu 2.4
1995 Pontiac Grand Am 3.1
1979 Ford F-150 351M

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#3353787 - 04/26/14 11:34 AM Re: Colt45's Trans swap chronicles [Re: Colt45ws]
Colt45ws Offline


Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 7359
Loc: Central Washington
Anybody good with looking at broken parts and seeing what happened?
The large stub shaft piece was pretty much a melded mess, since it kept spinning. In one spot on the broken end it was blue from the heat generated.
But the small piece is mostly intact from its original state after the breakage occurred. It just got pushed into the hub and only got wiped on the high spot.
I got curious after seeing the ADTR.net 'RocketCouch' 600RWHP 1992 Crown Victoria shear the same part. But it was a clean shear right at the top of the splines. Like someone just spun it while holding against a blade and cut through it.
Mine is a bit different.

I think mine somehow ended up cracked which weakened it enough to allow my comparatively weak engine tear it apart.
I circled in blue a large area I think was cracked before the final failure. About the last 2mm towards the outside of the shaft is broke like this all the way around. Smooth, sharp edges.
In red I lined a crack I found. It starts (I don't really know where it started, that is just where it is convenient for me to start) about 3 splines across from where it breaches the surface in a valley. It goes across one spline at an angle then makes a almost u-turn to head back in the valley. About .5mm under the valley it makes a 90* turn and goes directly under that spline.
In green I think is where it finally tore off on that last 2-3.

But, this is all just my guessing.

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#3354732 - 04/27/14 02:56 PM Re: Colt45's Trans swap chronicles [Re: Colt45ws]
Colt45ws Offline


Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 7359
Loc: Central Washington

Opened the new transmission to modify the valve body and swap the EPC (Electronic Pressure Control) Solenoid.

The correct one for my 2004 is on the left and the incorrect one used 2005-2008 is on the right. The new one will not give the correct pressure commanded by the PCM and will quickly burn up the trans. The manual shift lever had to be mostly removed in order to replace this.

These are holes I enlarged and the drill bits used.
Hole #2 (Intermediate clutch feed): 7/64
Hole #4 & #5 (Direct clutch feed): 7/64
Hole #6 (Direct clutch exhaust): #21 drill
Hole #7 (Reverse servo feed for Manual 1st): 3/32
Hole #10 (Reverse feed): 3/32"
Hole #9 & #11 (Forward clutch feed): #31 drill

Back together with my modified 'Supertuff' plate.

Ready for install. Its not 100% complete, I didnt put a filter in it. Also, the transmission pan that it has is scrap from it sitting on it like this. I have the infamous 'Uhaul' factory pan with drain plug, on the way to replace this one.
_________________________
-Colton
2004 Ford Crown Vic LX, 76k "Tank" Back in Service
2002 Ford Crown Vic PI, 160k "Highwayman" (Ex-Kootenai County, ID Unit #42)

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#3356545 - 04/29/14 09:06 AM Re: Colt45's Trans swap chronicles [Re: Colt45ws]
Colt45ws Offline


Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 7359
Loc: Central Washington
So last night I pulled the radiator so I could replace the transmission oil cooler.



Giving me acres of room in there. I took the time to install the new tensioner I bought when I first started this.

This morning, after work, I decided to move the A/C accumulator forward on the frame, drilling new holes for it.

The purpose of which is to accommodate the Mustang GT belt routing.

I overlaid the difference. On Crown Vics, the pulley just to the left of the alternator is a ribbed one, and the belt runs over it, then drops down around the A/C.
On the Mustang, the same pulley is a smooth one, so the belt runs under it, then over a ribbed pulley before going around the A/C.
I had had my car setup like this, but, when I fixed my A/C I had to swap back to factory because of the low pressure sensor sticking off to the side there.
The factory 03-04 accumulator had the sensor standing straight up off the top, then in 2005 Ford changed it to the design seen here. If you order a service accumulator, you get the new design.
Several other people have run into the problem and fixed it by doing what I did here, move the accumulator forward 3/4".
Difference is, it was really easy for me to perform with no radiator and fan in the way. laugh
Then Ill just zip tie the harness to make sure it does not get sucked into the belt.

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