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#3266133 - 01/31/14 05:20 PM How Get Shortest Braking Distance on Ice With ABS?
SubLGT Offline


Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 1775
Loc: Idaho
If you have a car equipped with winter tires and ABS, which braking technique will give you the shortest braking distance on ice:

1. Stomp on the pedal, and let ABS do all the work?
2. Push lightly on the brake pedal until ABS comes on, then back off slightly until ABS disengages?
3. Push lightly on the brake pedal, but do not allow ABS to activate?

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#3266138 - 01/31/14 05:24 PM Re: How Get Shortest Braking Distance on Ice With ABS? [Re: SubLGT]
bourne Offline


Registered: 12/20/06
Posts: 1281
Loc: Greenwood, IN
3 if your good at braking, 1 if youre not
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2008 G35S : Maxlife Syn 5w30(3qts) + Synpower 5w40 MST(2qts)
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#3266141 - 01/31/14 05:26 PM Re: How Get Shortest Braking Distance on Ice With ABS? [Re: SubLGT]
Ramblejam Offline


Registered: 11/05/13
Posts: 879
Loc: Kentucky
Braking without antilock brakes

If you don't have antilock brakes, the best way to stop is threshold braking. Keep the heel of your foot on the floor and use the ball of your foot to apply firm, steady pressure on the brake pedal to the “threshold” of locking your brakes. Remember, you must keep your heel on the floor. If your heel leaves the floor, the wheels could lock because you’re controlling the brake pedal with your thigh muscles instead of your ankle, which are incapable of finer control.

Braking with antilock brakes

If you have an antilock braking system (ABS), do not remove your foot from the brake. When you put on the brakes hard enough to make the wheels lock momentarily, you will typically feel the brake pedal vibrate and pulse back against your foot. This is normal. Do not pump
the pedal or remove your foot from the brake. The system is working as it was designed to work.

http://autoclubsouth.aaa.com/Assets/PDFs/HowtogoIceandSnow.pdf

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#3266149 - 01/31/14 05:46 PM Re: How Get Shortest Braking Distance on Ice With ABS? [Re: bourne]
Rand Offline


Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 7218
Loc: Akron,Ohio
Originally Posted By: bourne
3 if your good at braking, 1 if youre not


This
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2011 Subaru Forester X Prem. 5MT

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#3266152 - 01/31/14 05:50 PM Re: How Get Shortest Braking Distance on Ice With ABS? [Re: SubLGT]
DBMaster Online   content


Registered: 09/18/12
Posts: 1952
Loc: Texas
How about...?

4. Don't drive on ice.


May have no choice at some point, but around here the biggest hazard of driving on ice is the other drivers.
_________________________

Mike

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#3266169 - 01/31/14 06:03 PM Re: How Get Shortest Braking Distance on Ice With ABS? [Re: SubLGT]
SubLGT Offline


Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 1775
Loc: Idaho
I found this advice at edmunds.com:

"………………...I've battled snow- and ice-covered highways in two-dozen states behind the wheel of both passenger vehicles and 18-wheelers. I've performed hundreds of tire tests on snow-covered roads, attended snow-driving schools and done precision (translation: "barely in control") driving in the snow for videos and still photos. From this experience, here are some snow driving tips the average driver can follow to reduce the chances of a crash…………………………….

…………………... If you drive on icy roads or roads that are covered with snow, modify your ABS technique: After you "Stomp" and the ABS begins cycling — you will feel pulses in the pedal or hear the system working — ease up slightly on the pedal until the pulsing happens only once a second……………………..

http://www.edmunds.com/car-safety/driving-on-snow-and-ice-10-safety-tips.html

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#3266180 - 01/31/14 06:23 PM Re: How Get Shortest Braking Distance on Ice With ABS? [Re: SubLGT]
fdcg27 Offline


Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 8980
Loc: OH
The ABS will do a pretty good job on a really slick surface, but an experienced driver can do better.
Light and gradual pedal application with a skiiled driver is probably better, but I've often had to pump the pedal hard w/o ABS to allow steering under braking on really slick surfaces.
Those who grew up in the north understand this.
Those who didn't can learn.
The main benefit of ABS is that it allows steering control.
It doesn't produce shorter stops.
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#3266197 - 01/31/14 06:50 PM Re: How Get Shortest Braking Distance on Ice With ABS? [Re: SubLGT]
SubLGT Offline


Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 1775
Loc: Idaho
From a Nov 2011 article, written by Ian Law at Car Control School in Canada:

"………….Here is a fact that catches a lot of motorists by surprise: if the vehicle we are driving is equipped with ABS brakes, our stopping distances on ice and snow will be longer than if our vehicle did not have ABS brakes. In older vehicles and less expensive vehicles, ABS can lengthen our stopping distances by up to 50 per cent compared to non-ABS. In more modern vehicles and, in particular, ones with very sophisticated ABS braking systems, the difference is not so pronounced…………………"

"……...We all have to give our braking the respect it deserves. In winter conditions, slow down and leave more space for the vehicle in front…………"

http://www.wheels.ca/news/abs-brakes-can-add-to-stopping-distances/

http://www.carcontrolschool.com/winter-driving-school/

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#3266209 - 01/31/14 07:03 PM Re: How Get Shortest Braking Distance on Ice With ABS? [Re: SubLGT]
DBMaster Online   content


Registered: 09/18/12
Posts: 1952
Loc: Texas
All the more reason, especially around here, to avoid driving on ice at all costs. I don't have enough routine experience to do it well and most drivers around here can't even do well on dry roads.
_________________________

Mike

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#3266216 - 01/31/14 07:10 PM Re: How Get Shortest Braking Distance on Ice With ABS? [Re: bourne]
yonyon Offline


Registered: 03/06/12
Posts: 3492
Loc: NJ, USA
Originally Posted By: bourne
3 if your good at braking, 1 if youre not


I also agree with this but would like to remind you to take advantage of surface irregularities and if you really need it, safely bouncing off of things also can help.

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#3266219 - 01/31/14 07:13 PM Re: How Get Shortest Braking Distance on Ice With ABS? [Re: SubLGT]
dparm Online   content


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 12357
Loc: Chicago, IL
Originally Posted By: SubLGT
From a Nov 2011 article, written by Ian Law at Car Control School in Canada:

"………….Here is a fact that catches a lot of motorists by surprise: if the vehicle we are driving is equipped with ABS brakes, our stopping distances on ice and snow will be longer than if our vehicle did not have ABS brakes. In older vehicles and less expensive vehicles, ABS can lengthen our stopping distances by up to 50 per cent compared to non-ABS. In more modern vehicles and, in particular, ones with very sophisticated ABS braking systems, the difference is not so pronounced…………………"

"……...We all have to give our braking the respect it deserves. In winter conditions, slow down and leave more space for the vehicle in front…………"

http://www.wheels.ca/news/abs-brakes-can-add-to-stopping-distances/

http://www.carcontrolschool.com/winter-driving-school/




Not always. There is the logic that not having ABS allows snow to bunch up in front of the wheels, slowing it down faster. The guys at Tire Rack have told me off-the-record that this isn't necessarily optimal with newer tread designs and compounds.

I will say this: having tires that are rated for traction on ice will go a LONG way. All-seasons generally are not rated for that.
_________________________
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#3266232 - 01/31/14 07:24 PM Re: How Get Shortest Braking Distance on Ice With ABS? [Re: SubLGT]
Cristobal Offline


Registered: 01/02/11
Posts: 1954
Loc: Montebello, CA
For the shortest braking distance, drive as slowly as possible.
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1996 Toyota Avalon - "The Beast"

The Poodle Empire will conquer the Galaxy. All Cats must die!

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#3266250 - 01/31/14 07:45 PM Re: How Get Shortest Braking Distance on Ice With ABS? [Re: SubLGT]
Cujet Offline


Registered: 02/15/03
Posts: 4026
Loc: Jupiter, Florida
There are some significant brake bias differences in some modern ABS equipped vehicles. Front and rear brakes may have more similar initial torque. Due to these differences, the rear brakes have more initial stopping power than conventional older vehicles. These cars and trucks will sometimes rely on the ABS to prevent rear wheel lockup before the fronts even think about losing traction.

This gives a nicer braking feel to many cars.

Experienced drivers will notice that only modest ABS engagement is in play, and the fronts are not yet at the threshold limit. Much of this depends on tire compound, road conditions, vehicle loading and weight transfer.

This means that under some circumstances, threshold braking may not be the fastest deceleration rate.


Not sure how this translates to stopping on glare ice. And, better vehicles are tuned to reduce ABS authority at very low speeds. Allowing modest wheel lockup for snowy conditions.
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Turbo's rule.

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#3266281 - 01/31/14 08:22 PM Re: How Get Shortest Braking Distance on Ice With ABS? [Re: SubLGT]
Wagonmaster261 Offline


Registered: 10/19/03
Posts: 20
Loc: SE WI
Originally Posted By: SubLGT
If you have a car equipped with winter tires and ABS, which braking technique will give you the shortest braking distance on ice:

1. Stomp on the pedal, and let ABS do all the work?
2. Push lightly on the brake pedal until ABS comes on, then back off slightly until ABS disengages?
3. Push lightly on the brake pedal, but do not allow ABS to activate?


4. Plow into snowbank-tree-whatever is available. wink whistle

I have about a month on my General Arctic Altimaxs on my Sable. When we had an icing event around here, I was able to get around OK, and the ABS didn't kick in, due to having actual traction.
_________________________
99 Sable Duratec M1 0w30
96 Windstar 3.8 M1 0w30
96 Aerostar 4.0 M1 0w30
94 F150 300 Whatever doesn't leak out too fast...

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#3266284 - 01/31/14 08:30 PM Re: How Get Shortest Braking Distance on Ice With ABS? [Re: Wagonmaster261]
Ramblejam Offline


Registered: 11/05/13
Posts: 879
Loc: Kentucky
Originally Posted By: Wagonmaster261
I have about a month on my General Arctic Altimaxs on my Sable. When we had an icing event around here, I was able to get around OK, and the ABS didn't kick in, due to having actual traction.


Can you elaborate on "able to get around OK"?

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