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#3274975 - 02/08/14 03:39 PM Re: Archoil AR6200 [Re: kschachn]
yonyon Offline


Registered: 03/06/12
Posts: 3492
Loc: NJ, USA
Originally Posted By: kschachn
I only have a minor in chemistry, so I'm going to qualify my comment with that statement.

I have to say this sounds like the biggest load of pseudoscience I have heard in a while. Yes, you can reduce combustion temperatures with a catalyst but you will be able to see it happen. None the tests you mention in this post show anything, it keeps saying "no, you can't see this in any test". That right there is a huge red flag.


If something can't be tested then it's either junk or it's religion. We don't discuss religion on BITOG but there is discussion of this product here. One way to explain this is that the participants in the discussion are in consensus that the product is junk.

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#3275034 - 02/08/14 04:40 PM Re: Archoil AR6200 [Re: jonny-b]
TurboJim Offline


Registered: 10/30/04
Posts: 827
Loc: Oregon
Suggest we restrict this thread to those who have actually used the product. Those who haven't used the product and especially those who have no intention of using the product can start their own thead.

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#3275860 - 02/09/14 11:51 AM Re: Archoil AR6200 [Re: TurboJim]
kschachn Offline


Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 2317
Loc: Upper Midwest
OK, backing off. But tell me this - if the product does something that they themselves are saying can't be measured, then how does Archoil know that it does?

Originally Posted By: TurboJim
Suggest we restrict this thread to those who have actually used the product. Those who haven't used the product and especially those who have no intention of using the product can start their own thead.
_________________________
1994 BMW 530i, 186K
1996 Honda Accord, 199K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 301K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 222K

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#3275988 - 02/09/14 01:36 PM Re: Archoil AR6200 [Re: jonny-b]
jonny-b Offline


Registered: 01/06/06
Posts: 1071
Loc: Norway
"AR6200 Fuel Modification Complex was developed to address the shortcomings in carbon based fuels. AR6200 utilizes the principle of catalysis and at the same time is a demulsifier, increases available combustion BTU by lowering the burn rate, controls bacteria growth, a polymerization retardant and more. Tested in the field for MPG using the EPA CMB test averaging an 8% improvement, the most accurate EPA test for MPG. Can be used in any carbon fuel type including bunker and will maintain storage fuel integrity. One pint treats 1280 gallons".

It looks like they know it because of the testing.


Edited by jonny-b (02/09/14 01:37 PM)

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#3277925 - 02/11/14 10:48 AM Re: Archoil AR6200 [Re: jonny-b]
kschachn Offline


Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 2317
Loc: Upper Midwest
Did you look that up? The "EPA CMB" is a Chemical Mass Balance model, not even a test as such. It is a computer model. And it is used to predict air pollution.

Unless there is another "EPA CMB test" then this doesn't appear to even relate to what they claim.

Originally Posted By: jonny-b
"AR6200 Fuel Modification Complex was developed to address the shortcomings in carbon based fuels. AR6200 utilizes the principle of catalysis and at the same time is a demulsifier, increases available combustion BTU by lowering the burn rate, controls bacteria growth, a polymerization retardant and more. Tested in the field for MPG using the EPA CMB test averaging an 8% improvement, the most accurate EPA test for MPG. Can be used in any carbon fuel type including bunker and will maintain storage fuel integrity. One pint treats 1280 gallons".

It looks like they know it because of the testing.
_________________________
1994 BMW 530i, 186K
1996 Honda Accord, 199K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 301K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 222K

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#3277967 - 02/11/14 11:47 AM Re: Archoil AR6200 [Re: jonny-b]
jonny-b Offline


Registered: 01/06/06
Posts: 1071
Loc: Norway
OK. Great to see that you have finally tried AR6200, kschachn!

What is your impression after the first 1000 miles?


Edited by jonny-b (02/11/14 11:48 AM)

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#3277974 - 02/11/14 11:53 AM Re: Archoil AR6200 [Re: jonny-b]
jonny-b Offline


Registered: 01/06/06
Posts: 1071
Loc: Norway
Can you see for yourself how stupid it looks like, when somebody who doesn't have first-hand knowledge about AR6200, cycles into this tread.

Having tried it, is actually the criteria for saying something under this tread.

You still doesn't understand it, or...?


Edited by jonny-b (02/11/14 11:54 AM)

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#3278178 - 02/11/14 03:13 PM Re: Archoil AR6200 [Re: kschachn]
edhackett Offline


Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 1492
Loc: Sequim, WA
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Did you look that up? The "EPA CMB" is a Chemical Mass Balance model, not even a test as such. It is a computer model. And it is used to predict air pollution.

Unless there is another "EPA CMB test" then this doesn't appear to even relate to what they claim.

Originally Posted By: jonny-b
"AR6200 Fuel Modification Complex was developed to address the shortcomings in carbon based fuels. AR6200 utilizes the principle of catalysis and at the same time is a demulsifier, increases available combustion BTU by lowering the burn rate, controls bacteria growth, a polymerization retardant and more. Tested in the field for MPG using the EPA CMB test averaging an 8% improvement, the most accurate EPA test for MPG. Can be used in any carbon fuel type including bunker and will maintain storage fuel integrity. One pint treats 1280 gallons".

It looks like they know it because of the testing.


Late to this thread, but good catch, kschachn.

CMB is a source-receptor model used to do source apportionment of regional air pollutants. It was developed by the Principal Investigators at the Desert Research Institute's Environmental Anyalysis Facility. This is where I spent the last 17 years of my career at DRI. A large part of my work there was analyzing source and ambient samples and putting the results into final form for input into CMB.

I can tell you without a doubt that Archoil did not use CMB to determine a fuel milage increase of an additive.

CMB is used to "back out" the sources of pollution in an area. Source profiles are generated by sampling major point sources in the area of interest; refinery stack emissions, cooking(Burger King is a big polluter), power plants, chemical factories, etc. These samples are comprehensively analyzed to create a chemical signature of each point source. Non-point source emission source profiles are added to the data; gasoline powered vehicles, light, medium, and heavy duty diesel, OPE, BBQ, etc. Ambient samples are taken around the region, neighborhood, or even a specific point such as an elementary school. CMB backs out the contribution of each source profile entered to the specific ambient sample of interest.

CMB

Ed
_________________________
Never attribute to engineers that into which politicians, lawyers, accountants, and marketeers have poked their fingers.

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#3278884 - 02/12/14 01:37 AM Re: Archoil AR6200 [Re: jonny-b]
nleksan Offline


Registered: 11/20/08
Posts: 562
Loc: Cincinnati, OH
You don't need to have tried a product to comment on it. Especially when there are plenty of very knowledgeable people here...
_________________________
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88 M6 (Eu) - RL
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#3278894 - 02/12/14 02:22 AM Re: Archoil AR6200 [Re: jonny-b]
spasm3 Offline


Registered: 05/30/10
Posts: 3407
Loc: north carolina
found this online
http://www.archoil.nl/pdf/msds/SDS%20AR6200%20NL%28EN%29.pdf

Composition/information on ingredients
3.1 Mixtures
Chemical Name
Concentration CAS Number EC Number R/H Phrases* Symbols
1-decene, homopolymer, hydrogenated 1-5% 68037-01-4 500-183-1 H304
R65
GHS08
Xn
Distillates (petroleum) hydrotreated light 70-80% 64742-47-8 265-149-8 H304
R65
GHS08
Xn
Solvent naphtha (petroleum) heavy aromatic 10-20% 64742-94-5 265-198-5 H304
R65
GHS08
Xn
Ethylenediamine
<1% 107-15-3 203-468-6 H226, H302,
H312, H314,
H317, H334
R10, R21/22,
R34, R42/43
GHS02, GHS05,
GHS07, GHS08
Xn, C
Hexahydro-1,3,5-triethyl-s-triazine
<5% 68955-53-3 273-279-1 H302, H311,
H314, H317,
H318, H330,
H400, H410
R22, R24,
R26, R34,
R43, R41,
R50-53
GHS05, GHS06,
GHS09
T+, C, N

70-80% light petroleum distillate and 10-20% naptha
not too special


Edited by spasm3 (02/12/14 02:24 AM)
_________________________
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13 elantra 27k penplat5w30
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#3278901 - 02/12/14 02:55 AM Re: Archoil AR6200 [Re: jonny-b]
jonny-b Offline


Registered: 01/06/06
Posts: 1071
Loc: Norway
What you found there, spasm3, is actually quite useful.

However, when I started this tread, I was thinking more of a tread where actual users of this product could say something.
Good or bad.

If someone with great technical know-how, tribologists and others have something they want to share, it would be great if they did it in another tread, where they can tell everyone what they know about this product, what they feel about this product, etc, etc, etc,......

But, interestingly enough, people who claim this or that about a product they haven't tried, must have quite a desperate need to say something about a product they should not care about.

Unless it is an effort to look smart, or trying to talk down a bothersome competition.

Or, it could be a natural talent of being rude.
Who knows?

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#3279383 - 02/12/14 12:45 PM Re: Archoil AR6200 [Re: jonny-b]
kschachn Offline


Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 2317
Loc: Upper Midwest
What is it about the MSDS you find useful?

Originally Posted By: jonny-b
What you found there, spasm3, is actually quite useful.
_________________________
1994 BMW 530i, 186K
1996 Honda Accord, 199K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 301K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 222K

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#3279492 - 02/12/14 02:47 PM Re: Archoil AR6200 [Re: jonny-b]
kschachn Offline


Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 2317
Loc: Upper Midwest
Wow. You're not going to scare me away by demanding that I not address you again, LOL.

You were the one who said the post was useful, in fact you said it was "quite useful". I wondered what it was that you found useful about the data that was posted.

I don't think that I have once been demeaning or rude here, yet you continue to be that way. And I have made up my mind? Absolutely not. But it certainly appears you have, at least to the extent that you do not want to know if the product is of any value or not.
_________________________
1994 BMW 530i, 186K
1996 Honda Accord, 199K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 301K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 222K

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#3280836 - 02/13/14 03:03 PM Re: Archoil AR6200 [Re: jonny-b]
jonny-b Offline


Registered: 01/06/06
Posts: 1071
Loc: Norway
kschachn, I found it was interesting that it is biodegradable and does no harm if it leaks into water.

I really don't understand your speculation in if I don't want to know if the product is of any value or not?

How can you ask such a strange question, when you know that I am using it (AR6200)?

I already know that it is useful.

But, in which, and how many ways, I will come back to when I have driven 2000 kilometers with both my personal cars.

As I have said before.

The advantage of using 20 Bucks in product and testing it personally, is that you can see/feel/measure what differences that occur.

How far you want to go with it, depends on if you have your own private lab.

However, if several persons that have actually USED it, tell what they experience, it is an indication that it does something.

Good or bad.

I have to repeat once again, that this tread was meant for those who have actually tried the product.

Those who like speculations, can start their own tread.

Of course, for a person who want to sabotage this tread, it is very easy to do what kschachn have done with success, so far.


Edited by jonny-b (02/13/14 03:03 PM)

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#3281203 - 02/13/14 08:34 PM Re: Archoil AR6200 [Re: jonny-b]
kschachn Offline


Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 2317
Loc: Upper Midwest
Well, first off please explain to me how asking you questions about posts YOU have made to this thread is somehow "sabotaging" it. You posted the data, I only asked about what YOU posted.

And second, why would I or anyone spend $20 on a product and test it, when the company is making apparently unsubstantiated and dubious claims?

Why would you?
_________________________
1994 BMW 530i, 186K
1996 Honda Accord, 199K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 301K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 222K

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