12 Honda Pilot M1 0w-40 7400 mi OCI-max towing

[Autodarken]

This report is from my X-2012 Honda Pilot EX-L with around 30k miles, and 7400mi of which were run with Mobil 1 0w-40. I got the 0w-40 for free, and having it on hand I wanted to prove its ok to run when temps dont drop below 32f. And I was towing about 3k miles of the 7400 miles at near max (4300lbs), towing a 25ft travel trailer. At 7400k miles the MM was at just 15%, even after all that towing.

 

[tommygunn]

I wonder what would've happened had you used regular syn blend 0w20!

How is the Pilot as a tow vehicle? Did it feel noticeably sluggish? Did it run appreciably hotter than normal?

 

[Clevy]

M1 0w-40 should pump just fine even at -30c,so 32f isn't even testing the oil.

So you've got better wear numbers than typical engines on a shorter interval and you towed the max for many of those miles.
I'd call that a stellar report.
Thanks for posting.

 

[Autodarken]

Originally Posted By: tommygunn
I wonder what would've happened had you used regular syn blend 0w20!

How is the Pilot as a tow vehicle? Did it feel noticeably sluggish? Did it run appreciably hotter than normal?


There is so much [censored] said about the Pilot towing, so I had my Torque app on and installed a digital temp gauge to watch the ATF temp during this last season of towing. And I moved it from the cooler outlet to the trans outlet to compare temps. Its amazing how low ATF temps will go during nomral cruising, and while towing nothing got out of hand. Water/Engine temps was 100% boring, uneventfull, never over 185f. Ever.

Its got plenty of power too, so long as you dont mind rev'ing a gas motor and putting the pedal down when its time for serious movement. 8% grades for 2 miles at a crack (bluffs not mountains) were easy and I had power to spare.

We since bumped up to a Sequoia for National travel the next 3-4 years. But in state, the Pilot was real decent. And perfect for all our other requirements.

 

[Ayrton]

Hey it sheared as much as it did in my Saab in 3,800 miles.

Seems like a great report! I have a lot of respect for Honda engines!

 

[Autodarken]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
M1 0w-40 should pump just fine even at -30c,so 32f isn't even testing the oil.



The W rating is @ 32f/0c, so you may want to double check on this statement. I found under 32f specs for 0w-40 Mobil 1 was drastically thicker than 5w-30's, 5w-20's and 0w-20's.

 

[gregk24]

Looks ok I guess.

 

[Autodarken]

Originally Posted By: Autodarken
Originally Posted By: Clevy
M1 0w-40 should pump just fine even at -30c,so 32f isn't even testing the oil.



The W rating is @ 32f/0c, so you may want to double check on this statement. I found under 32f specs for 0w-40 Mobil 1 was drastically thicker than 5w-30's, 5w-20's and 0w-20's.


I'm slightly off. Its well below 32f that I saw drastic differences. Copy paste from Mobil web specs:

M1 0w-20 MRV @ -40ºc, cP (ASTM D4684) = 9200
M1 0w-40 MRV @ -40ºC, cP (ASTM D4684) = 31,000

 

[CATERHAM]

What is the recommended max' towing capacity for the Honda Pilot?
Did you install any supplemental air shock or the like in the rear suspension?

Yes I'd be more concerned about the AT (as you were) than the engine since as you mentioned you had power to spare.

Don't know what to say about the UOA. It would have been nice to know what your max' oil temp's and oil pressure were. The cars spec'd for 0W-20 so I don't know if running the 40 grade oil was counter-productive or not.

 

[Autodarken]

The Gen2 Honda Pilot 4WD (2008 to 2014) is rated to tow 4500lbs.

I did find huge improvments when I swapped OEM tires for stiff UHP 19" tires on aftermarket wheels. And I added air bags too, for added spring rate, not lift. It all worked in concert for less than day travels, but the tires were the #1 improvement.

The point of running 0w-40 was to prove nearly anything can run it, even if the oil cap says 0w-20. There's more to 0w-20 than just a spec oil (CAFE/EPA), and most on this site know that. And pushing the Pilot to its limits, I knew it would only help matters, not harm.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Autodarken
Originally Posted By: Clevy
M1 0w-40 should pump just fine even at -30c,so 32f isn't even testing the oil.



The W rating is @ 32f/0c, so you may want to double check on this statement. I found under 32f specs for 0w-40 Mobil 1 was drastically thicker than 5w-30's, 5w-20's and 0w-20's.


But the 0 in front of that W denotes a CCS viscosity of no higher than 6,200cP at -35C.

 

[kschachn]

You knew this how?

Originally Posted By: Autodarken
And pushing the Pilot to its limits, I knew it would only help matters, not harm.

 

[Autodarken]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
You knew this how?

Originally Posted By: Autodarken
And pushing the Pilot to its limits, I knew it would only help matters, not harm.


You must be the type that sticks to what the oil cap says, eh? Well, when you can prove one must run 0w-20 at all times just because its on the oil cap, or bad things happen...come on back.

I know as a matter of fact, different viscosity oils can be run without any harm what-so-ever. Now I'm not talking 15w-50's and such, I'm talking upto 5w-30's and 40's.

This report not only shows 0w-40 runs well in said recomended 0w-20 engine, but doesnt it make you wonder what would have happend to 0w-20 in the same situation? Do you think it would have lasted and protected as well? Based on this report, I say no, it would not.

I am a firm believer that Xw-20 oils are not the best option for heavy duty (towing in my case) use, granted this is not proven anywhere I know of. However, some OEM's do open this door within the owners manual. The Tundra/Sequoia 5.7L is one such example. And my own calls to Honda and Mobil 1 have resulted in the same response, Xw-20 oil may not be the best choice for towing.

 

[Autodarken]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Autodarken
Originally Posted By: Clevy
M1 0w-40 should pump just fine even at -30c,so 32f isn't even testing the oil.



The W rating is @ 32f/0c, so you may want to double check on this statement. I found under 32f specs for 0w-40 Mobil 1 was drastically thicker than 5w-30's, 5w-20's and 0w-20's.


But the 0 in front of that W denotes a CCS viscosity of no higher than 6,200cP at -35C.

Then call Mobil and tell them they are all wrong:

M1 0w-20 MRV @ -40ºc, cP (ASTM D4684) = 9200
M1 0w-40 MRV @ -40ºC, cP (ASTM D4684) = 31,000

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Autodarken
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Autodarken
Originally Posted By: Clevy
M1 0w-40 should pump just fine even at -30c,so 32f isn't even testing the oil.



The W rating is @ 32f/0c, so you may want to double check on this statement. I found under 32f specs for 0w-40 Mobil 1 was drastically thicker than 5w-30's, 5w-20's and 0w-20's.


But the 0 in front of that W denotes a CCS viscosity of no higher than 6,200cP at -35C.

Then call Mobil and tell them they are all wrong:

M1 0w-20 MRV @ -40ºc, cP (ASTM D4684) = 9200
M1 0w-40 MRV @ -40ºC, cP (ASTM D4684) = 31,000



You aren't following this correctly

MRV and CCS are separate measures. Please look at the chart again. CCS for a 0w-xx is measured at -35C. MRV is measured at -40C.

The limit for MRV is 60,000cP. The limit for CCS is 6,200cP.

Both figures you just quoted are MRV, not CCS, and were measured at -40C, not -35C.

Mobil doesn't provide CCS figures for either of the oils you mentioned, however we know that they are 6,200cP or less as per the limits defined by the SAE.

 

[kschachn]

You must be the type that responds sarcastically to a question about a statement you made, eh?

Your answer, worded with "doesn't it make you wonder", "what would have happened", "Do you think", "I am a firm believer" and "may not be" says nothing really, as you yourself note when you say it is not proven anywhere. I was just questioning you saying "I knew it would only help matters" in your post. How do you know that? What is deficient with a 0W-20?

And I don't need to prove that you should use what is on the oil cap, as I didn't advocate you using 0W-20 for towing. I was wondering what you had to show that proved to you that 0W-40 was a better choice.

Originally Posted By: Autodarken
Originally Posted By: kschachn
You knew this how?

Originally Posted By: Autodarken
And pushing the Pilot to its limits, I knew it would only help matters, not harm.


You must be the type that sticks to what the oil cap says, eh? Well, when you can prove one must run 0w-20 at all times just because its on the oil cap, or bad things happen...come on back.

I know as a matter of fact, different viscosity oils can be run without any harm what-so-ever. Now I'm not talking 15w-50's and such, I'm talking upto 5w-30's and 40's.

This report not only shows 0w-40 runs well in said recomended 0w-20 engine, but doesnt it make you wonder what would have happend to 0w-20 in the same situation? Do you think it would have lasted and protected as well? Based on this report, I say no, it would not.

I am a firm believer that Xw-20 oils are not the best option for heavy duty (towing in my case) use, granted this is not proven anywhere I know of. However, some OEM's do open this door within the owners manual. The Tundra/Sequoia 5.7L is one such example. And my own calls to Honda and Mobil 1 have resulted in the same response, Xw-20 oil may not be the best choice for towing.

 

[Autodarken]

Lets narrow this down to one thing...

0w-40 is thicker at extreme cold temps than 0w-20 per MRV testing at Mobil. I cannot find specs at 32f.

As I said, I was off about the 32f/0c comment, but I was not off about the two oils being different at cold temps despite them both being 0w-XX oils.

 

[Autodarken]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
You must be the type that responds sarcastically to a question about a statement you made, eh?

Your answer, worded with "doesn't it make you wonder", "what would have happened", "Do you think", "I am a firm believer" and "may not be" says nothing really, as you yourself note when you say it is not proven anywhere. I was just questioning you saying "I knew it would only help matters" in your post. How do you know that? What is deficient with a 0W-20?

And I don't need to prove that you should use what is on the oil cap, as I didn't advocate you using 0W-20 for towing. I was wondering what you had to show that proved to you that 0W-40 was a better choice.



There is no answer that would surfice, you know it, and I know it.

My point was to look at my UOA and imagine a 0w-20 in its place. The 0w-40 thinned out, so how far would a 0w-20 have thinned in the same high stress situation? Would other wear indicators be elevated too?

I dont have all the answers. My responses and verbiage was to make one think, not to provide all the answers.

The only thing I stand strong on is running something thicker than 0w-20 is perfectly acceptable. And I'll tell ya, it makes me feel better running it while my engine is under higher than normal, every day stress. And that's all that matters. My feelings. LOL!!!

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Autodarken
Lets narrow this down to one thing...

0w-40 is thicker at extreme cold temps than 0w-20 per MRV testing at Mobil. I cannot find specs at 32f.

As I said, I was off about the 32f/0c comment, but I was not off about the two oils being different at cold temps despite them both being 0w-XX oils.


I would hope that 0w-40 would be thicker at ALL temps than a 0w-20, considering one is a 40 and the other is a 20

That said, the 0w-40 is thinner at -35C and below than a 5w-20

The 0w-xx designation is just an indicator as to the oil falling below the maximums for CCS and MRV at -35C and -40C. The same goes for 5w-xx, except that's for -30C and -35C.

Your initial premise was what I had responded to as it was out in left field and you've now indicated that you realized that it was wrong. That's fine. I don't believe anybody was arguing that at the limits of the ratings for a 0w-xx oil that an oil that is inherently lighter is not going to remain inherently lighter

That's why I noted there were limits. You then told me I was wrong. I then politely indicated that this was not the case and that you were looking at the wrong data sets. I'm not trying to be rude, and I don't believe I have been, I've just corrected a bit of misinformation in an attempt to help you out here as you obviously didn't understand what you were looking at initially.

 

[Autodarken]

I'll be honest, I'm really confused by your post OVERKILL. While I corrected my error when I called out temps, and provided the spec showing 0w-40 was thicker than 0w-20 when cold, I'm still getting grief. Where's the beef?