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#3263684 - 01/29/14 11:16 AM Re: Urea injection for diesel [Re: wemay]
wemay Online   sick


Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 1962
Loc: sunny/rainy S. FL.
Thanks A_Harman
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#3263688 - 01/29/14 11:18 AM Re: Urea injection for diesel [Re: JHZR2]
Wesbo Offline


Registered: 11/20/05
Posts: 15
Loc: Charlotte, NC
Could you pee in the tank to get enough solution to get home? I'm only partly kidding...

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#3263761 - 01/29/14 12:37 PM Re: Urea injection for diesel [Re: Wesbo]
AP9 Offline


Registered: 07/10/13
Posts: 215
Loc: Chicago suburbs
Originally Posted By: Wesbo
Could you pee in the tank to get enough solution to get home? I'm only partly kidding...


I wondered the same thing myself! grin But there are sensors to check urea concentration that ensure the content of the tank is truly DEF.

I'm thinking someone ought to invent a filter that would separate the water and urea out.

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#3263968 - 01/29/14 03:31 PM Re: Urea injection for diesel [Re: AP9]
A_Harman Offline


Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 4197
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: AP9
Originally Posted By: Wesbo
Could you pee in the tank to get enough solution to get home? I'm only partly kidding...


I wondered the same thing myself! grin But there are sensors to check urea concentration that ensure the content of the tank is truly DEF.

I'm thinking someone ought to invent a filter that would separate the water and urea out.


I've also been wondering about the same thing. Is there some kind of special diet one could go on to make himself a urea dispenser? Imagine the earnings possibilities for just doing something that comes naturally. I think we may have a solution to the unemployment problem.
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#3268573 - 02/02/14 10:02 PM Re: Urea injection for diesel [Re: wemay]
artificialist Offline


Registered: 09/23/07
Posts: 6770
Loc: Florida
Mazda avoided using urea injection because they created a diesel with 14:1 compression. That kept peak combustion chamber temperatures down, avoiding the higher temperatures that create NOx.
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#3268626 - 02/02/14 10:56 PM Re: Urea injection for diesel [Re: artificialist]
montr Offline


Registered: 11/16/13
Posts: 6
Loc: Georgia
Originally Posted By: artificialist
Mazda avoided using urea injection because they created a diesel with 14:1 compression. That kept peak combustion chamber temperatures down, avoiding the higher temperatures that create NOx.


In theory so far. Mazda has delayed the introduction of their Diesel to North America. I think the problem is certification.

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#3268642 - 02/02/14 11:11 PM Re: Urea injection for diesel [Re: montr]
artificialist Offline


Registered: 09/23/07
Posts: 6770
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: montr
Originally Posted By: artificialist
Mazda avoided using urea injection because they created a diesel with 14:1 compression. That kept peak combustion chamber temperatures down, avoiding the higher temperatures that create NOx.


In theory so far. Mazda has delayed the introduction of their Diesel to North America. I think the problem is certification.


Yes, I have heard rumors that the engine has bad fuel dilution due to frequent DPF regeneration, and that it takes a while to warm up, which raises cold weather emissions.
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#3269315 - 02/03/14 03:26 PM Re: Urea injection for diesel [Re: wemay]
BMWTurboDzl Offline


Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 1235
Loc: Atlanta,GA
Originally Posted By: wemay
Chevy advises to fill every 10k mi or so. Out of curiosity, what would happen if you failed to do so?


My vehicle gives a warning of "999 miles until no start". IMO if you can't fill with that mileage you have no business driving.
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#3272077 - 02/06/14 04:44 AM Re: Urea injection for diesel [Re: TiredTrucker]
ac_tc Offline


Registered: 05/06/08
Posts: 518
Loc: sweden
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
I would have much rather the Urea/SCR thing would have been done first instead of the EGR [censored]. I don't care for any of this stuff, but having all emissions stuff handled outside the engine is a far better way to do it than making an engine eat it's own feces. As a side note, it has been shone that they can reduce EGR because of the SCR, and this in turn allows the engine to be more efficient and in turn the DPF doesn't have to do regens as frequently. Now, if they could just do away with the EGR, things might be more tolerable.


Urea injection is better in every way compared to the heavy egr thats needed to control nox.
Ok, it has one drawback...you have to fill at a rate of 1-3% but the tanks are generally big so its usually every third tank or so.
The def tech saves you about 3 bucks of diesel for every buck that you buy def fluid for by simply
allowing the engine to run at higher efficency, egr lowers the engines efficency..
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#3272613 - 02/06/14 02:17 PM Re: Urea injection for diesel [Re: montr]
SteveSRT8 Offline


Registered: 10/10/08
Posts: 14784
Loc: Sunny Florida
Originally Posted By: montr
Originally Posted By: artificialist
Mazda avoided using urea injection because they created a diesel with 14:1 compression. That kept peak combustion chamber temperatures down, avoiding the higher temperatures that create NOx.


In theory so far. Mazda has delayed the introduction of their Diesel to North America. I think the problem is certification.


OMG, there is no end to the Skyactiv dynasty is there?
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#3274810 - 02/08/14 12:54 PM Re: Urea injection for diesel [Re: wemay]
Shaman Offline


Registered: 07/27/04
Posts: 2298
Loc: Frankfort, Kentucky
Despite my disgust for the politics that brought this about, it will make factory water injection more likely in the future. It also creates new tanks for people that owned the vehicle before the EPA vomitted on it to use for water/methanol kits, referring to Duramaxes in particular.

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#3276336 - 02/09/14 08:16 PM Re: Urea injection for diesel [Re: artificialist]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 33630
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: artificialist
Yes, I have heard rumors that the engine has bad fuel dilution due to frequent DPF regeneration, and that it takes a while to warm up, which raises cold weather emissions.


The regen thing I get, the warm up??? Other than some higher thermal efficiency, I dont see a substantial difference to warm up a diesel than a ga$$er, because if the same alloys, lube types, etc. are used, and the same power is output, its a matter of mass and heat capacity.

The diesel is more efficient, but the few % dont make a big difference given the quantity of waste heat. The engines are heavier, but that heat capacity difference can be calculated, and if normalized, wouldnt be any longer. Practically speaking it may not be any different.

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#3285979 - 02/18/14 08:11 AM Re: Urea injection for diesel [Re: JHZR2]
ac_tc Offline


Registered: 05/06/08
Posts: 518
Loc: sweden
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: artificialist
Yes, I have heard rumors that the engine has bad fuel dilution due to frequent DPF regeneration, and that it takes a while to warm up, which raises cold weather emissions.


The regen thing I get, the warm up??? Other than some higher thermal efficiency, I dont see a substantial difference to warm up a diesel than a ga$$er, because if the same alloys, lube types, etc. are used, and the same power is output, its a matter of mass and heat capacity.

The diesel is more efficient, but the few % dont make a big difference given the quantity of waste heat. The engines are heavier, but that heat capacity difference can be calculated, and if normalized, wouldnt be any longer. Practically speaking it may not be any different.


Diesels are infact so effective at idle that they generally cant keep hot..


Edited by ac_tc (02/18/14 08:11 AM)
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#3286015 - 02/18/14 09:13 AM Re: Urea injection for diesel [Re: wemay]
Miller88 Offline


Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 6520
Loc: Onondaga County
Why not kick all of this EPA garbage to the curb and go back to reliable, simple diesels?

Oh, wait, then Al Gore wouldn't be a multi billionaire ...


Edited by Miller88 (02/18/14 09:13 AM)
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#3286090 - 02/18/14 10:54 AM Re: Urea injection for diesel [Re: Miller88]
BMWTurboDzl Offline


Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 1235
Loc: Atlanta,GA
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Why not kick all of this EPA garbage to the curb and go back to reliable, simple diesels?

Oh, wait, then Al Gore wouldn't be a multi billionaire ...


Maybe we should all just go back to walking everywhere. It was much simpler and more reliable.

The concepts around EGR and SCR are sound.
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