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#3259500 - 01/25/14 10:25 AM The confusion around BMW M oils continues
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 12541
Loc: Chicago, IL
Someone just pulled this off BMW ISTA database:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15330450&postcount=1951

The chart shows that only Castrol Edge Professional TWS 10w60 is allowed in the S54, S62, S65, & S85 (M car) engines. This is contrary to what an August 2013 BMW bulletin said:


Originally Posted By: BMW Oil Supplier Listing Aug2013 V2

BMW CURRENT LISTING OF SYNTHETIC OILS (US Market)

Required maintenance work or services should be performed for your vehicle by your authorized
BMW center.

BMW High Performance Synthetic Oil is recommended for scheduled engine oil changes.

BMW Genuine Oil SAE 5W-30 Synthetic Oil*
* Does not apply to M vehicles - see below for further information

BMW part number 07 51 0 017 866 – 12 x 1 qt case

BMW part number 07 510 038 678 – 24 x 1qt Enviropack

BMW part number 07 51 0 017 954 – 55 gallon drum


BMW recommends that you check your engine oil level whenever you add fuel to your vehicle.

If you need to add oil between oil changes and BMW High Performance Synthetic Oil is unavailable,visit your nearest authorized BMW Center. For information on checking your engine oil level refer to your vehicle’s Owner’s Manual.

The choice of the right SAE grade is based on the climatic conditions in the region in which you normally drive your BMW.

To best determine which SAE grade is best suited for your vehicle contact an authorized BMW center.

*The following is the only recommended and approved synthetic oil for BMW M (Motorsport) vehicles in the US market with gasoline engines, at the present time.

BMW Long-life rating LL-01 Synthetic Oils for BMW M vehicles
equipped with S54, S62, S65 or S85 engines

Castrol EDGE Professional TWS Motorsport SAE 10W-60 Synthetic Engine Oil, BMW part number 07 51 0 009 420
or
Castrol Edge Professional OE 5W30 Synthetic Engine Oil, BMW part number 07 51 0 037 195

The following is a listing of synthetic oils recommended and approved for use in the BMW B7 ALPINA in the US market:

BMW Genuine Oil SAE 5W-30 Synthetic Oil
BMW part number 07 51 0 017 866


(source: http://cache.bmwusa.com/Pdf_59436a7e-93e...72-e40e9ca36785)



Frankly I'm quite aggravated that BMW can't get their story straight on what oils are allowable in certain M engines. For many years they only allow the Castrol TWS, then release the above bulletin in August to expand it to any LL-01 oil, and now their own database shows that's not the case. I'm not sure if the ISTA database is just a few months behind on updates, or if they've reneged on the use of LL-01.

The newer M5 & M6 engines (twin-turbo V8, code S63B44Tu) do allow LL-01, for what it's worth. Many owners of M cars have since switched to oils like Mobil 1 0w40 and the cars seem to run quite well with them. I've seen a bunch of UOAs, and there are a lot of people posting that the oil temps are lower on the track and the car actually drives better.

Obviously this has been the topic of much discussion across the BMW owner websites, and this recent ISTA info only stirs the pot again.

Here's our own discussion of it from late last year:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3151053

confused
_________________________
2011.5 BMW M3 saloon ZCP
der stärkste buchstabe der welt
Castrol Edge Professional TWS 10w60 + Mahle OX 254D3

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#3259552 - 01/25/14 11:22 AM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: dparm]
satinsilver Offline


Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 2912
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: dparm
Frankly I'm quite aggravated that BMW can't get their story straight on what oils are allowable in certain M engines.


Agreed but at least they're staying on top of the issue instead of letting something grow and fester. Or outright ignore similar to Toyota with the slugging problem. I own a Toyota so no smart remarks there guys.

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#3259594 - 01/25/14 11:59 AM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: dparm]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 33786
Loc: New Jersey
My read is that the 10w-60 and edge 5w-30 OE are the only oils recommended for the M engines. BMW genuine oil isn't suitable.

My read as posted/quoted was that only those two ll-01 oils are suitable. Thus it is consistent. Maybe I'm reading g the quoted text wrong, or sans some punctuation?

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#3259596 - 01/25/14 12:00 PM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: JHZR2]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 26459
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
My read is that the 10w-60 and edge 5w-30 OE are the only oils recommended for the M engines. BMW genuine oil isn't suitable.

My read as posted/quoted was that only those two ll-01 oils are suitable. Thus it is consistent. Maybe I'm reading g the quoted text wrong, or sans some punctuation?


That's what I took away from it too shrug
_________________________
Network Engineer
02 Expedition
01 BMW ///M5
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#3259603 - 01/25/14 12:13 PM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: dparm]
TrevorS Offline


Registered: 07/14/13
Posts: 1281
Loc: California
So under the MMA, a choice of 2 oils is ok, but only 1 choice would mean you should receive it for free?

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#3259630 - 01/25/14 12:55 PM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: JHZR2]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 12541
Loc: Chicago, IL
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
My read is that the 10w-60 and edge 5w-30 OE are the only oils recommended for the M engines. BMW genuine oil isn't suitable.

My read as posted/quoted was that only those two ll-01 oils are suitable. Thus it is consistent. Maybe I'm reading g the quoted text wrong, or sans some punctuation?



I actually read it differently: I read it that BMW High Performance Oil 5w30 is NOT LL-01 and therefore not suitable.
_________________________
2011.5 BMW M3 saloon ZCP
der stärkste buchstabe der welt
Castrol Edge Professional TWS 10w60 + Mahle OX 254D3

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#3259662 - 01/25/14 01:18 PM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: dparm]
NMBurb02 Offline


Registered: 09/12/12
Posts: 1335
Loc: Crowntown, CA
My read:

BMW Genuine Oil SAE 5W-30 Synthetic Oil es no bueno por M.

Castrol EDGE Professional TWS Motorsport SAE 10W-60 Synthetic Engine Oil y Castrol Edge Professional OE 5W30 Synthetic Engine Oil es muy bueno por M.

The linked BMW document is not formatted or written all that well. When it says "BMW Long-life rating LL-01 Synthetic Oils for BMW M vehicles equipped with S54, S62, S65 or S85 engines", that reads to me that the two oils listed immediately thereafter are the only LL-01 synthetics that are recommended for M vehicles. It does not preclude any other oils in the document from being LL-01, just that there are no other LL-01 oil that are appropriate for the listed M engines.


Edited by NMBurb02 (01/25/14 01:22 PM)
_________________________
2002 Chevy Suburban 1500, G-Oil 5W-30, Napa Gold FIL 4805
2006 Pontiac Grand Prix GT, Valvoline ML NG 10W-30 +MMO, Puro PureOne PL10111

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#3259671 - 01/25/14 01:27 PM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: NMBurb02]
SLO_Town Offline


Registered: 03/03/11
Posts: 239
Loc: California's Central Coast Win...
Originally Posted By: NMBurb02
My read:

BMW Genuine Oil SAE 5W-30 Synthetic Oil es no bueno por M.

Castrol EDGE Professional TWS Motorsport SAE 10W-60 Synthetic Engine Oil y Castrol Edge Professional OE 5W30 Synthetic Engine Oil es muy bueno por M.

The linked BMW document is not formatted or written all that well. When it says "BMW Long-life rating LL-01 Synthetic Oils for BMW M vehicles equipped with S54, S62, S65 or S85 engines", that reads to me that the two oils listed immediately thereafter are the only LL-01 synthetics that are recommended for M vehicles. It does not preclude any other oils in the document from being LL-01, just that there are no other LL-01 oil that are appropriate for the listed M engines.


This is exactly how I read it too. For example, M1 0w-40, even though LL-01 approved, is not suitable for those M-series motors.

Scott
_________________________
2003 BMW 330Ci ZSP (Motul 300V 5W-30)
2010 Honda Element SC (Castrol Syntec 0W-20)
2011 BMW 328i M-Sport (Belgian Castrol 0W-30)

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#3259758 - 01/25/14 03:25 PM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: SLO_Town]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 12541
Loc: Chicago, IL
Originally Posted By: SLO_Town
Originally Posted By: NMBurb02
My read:

BMW Genuine Oil SAE 5W-30 Synthetic Oil es no bueno por M.

Castrol EDGE Professional TWS Motorsport SAE 10W-60 Synthetic Engine Oil y Castrol Edge Professional OE 5W30 Synthetic Engine Oil es muy bueno por M.

The linked BMW document is not formatted or written all that well. When it says "BMW Long-life rating LL-01 Synthetic Oils for BMW M vehicles equipped with S54, S62, S65 or S85 engines", that reads to me that the two oils listed immediately thereafter are the only LL-01 synthetics that are recommended for M vehicles. It does not preclude any other oils in the document from being LL-01, just that there are no other LL-01 oil that are appropriate for the listed M engines.


This is exactly how I read it too. For example, M1 0w-40, even though LL-01 approved, is not suitable for those M-series motors.

Scott



Except that there is no such thing as "LL-01 approved for M vehicles". In fact, Castrol Edge Professional TWS 10w60 isn't even LL-01. It just reads "exclusive approval for BMW M-models":


ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4
API SN/CF
VW 501 01 / 505 00
Exclusive Approval For BMW M-Models
_________________________
2011.5 BMW M3 saloon ZCP
der stärkste buchstabe der welt
Castrol Edge Professional TWS 10w60 + Mahle OX 254D3

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#3259810 - 01/25/14 04:31 PM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: dparm]
Leonardo629 Offline


Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 227
Loc: So. Cal
Dan,

After senorfunkypants @ m3post.com won't let the issue go to rest, I re-read the bulletin, and it does say the oil has to be LL-01 and "approved for M" or it does not go into our M3s.

Looks like the only oil approved for our high revving S65 is the Edge Pro 10W60. Does this mean I will drain the M1 0W40 I'm currently running? Heck no...my car runs great with M1/LM MoS2.

Maybe TWS omitted LL-01 labeling all together because no standard series BMWs will ever need that oil, just deducing here.

The hard fact is that 0W40 has reduced the wear of bearings as witnessed by the few UOAs we've both seen on m3post.com.


Edited by Leonardo629 (01/25/14 04:33 PM)
_________________________
2013 Accord EX-L --> TGMO 0W20
2013 E92 M3 --> M1 0W40

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#3259908 - 01/25/14 06:12 PM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: dparm]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 12541
Loc: Chicago, IL
Castrol wouldn't bother paying for TWS to get certified as LL-01 since it was never intended for widespread use. It would easily pass, in my opinion.
_________________________
2011.5 BMW M3 saloon ZCP
der stärkste buchstabe der welt
Castrol Edge Professional TWS 10w60 + Mahle OX 254D3

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#3260263 - 01/26/14 05:35 AM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: dparm]
bobbydavro Offline


Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 110
Loc: 3rd rock from the sun
Bascially I read it as:

M engine with turbos are ok with LL01.
Non turbos require TWS.

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#3260512 - 01/26/14 12:27 PM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: dparm]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 12541
Loc: Chicago, IL
Someone just clarified something for me: the bulletin I linked to that mentions LL-01 was released by BMW USA. The ISTA database is a global thing...so clearly BMW has a different recommendation here, for some reason. I suspect it may be related to bearing failures.
_________________________
2011.5 BMW M3 saloon ZCP
der stärkste buchstabe der welt
Castrol Edge Professional TWS 10w60 + Mahle OX 254D3

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#3260584 - 01/26/14 01:53 PM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: dparm]
SilverC6 Offline


Registered: 10/03/08
Posts: 1476
Loc: Southeast
According to the owner's manual, my V8 twin turbo powered M6 is okay with LL-01 in 0W-30 or 0W-40.

From the manual....

When selecting an engine oil, ensure that
the engine oil belongs to the viscosity grade
SAE 0W-30 or SAE 0W-40

ACEA A3/B4
API SK/CF or superior grade specification


Now the specialized TWS is applicable to my 3 liter inline 6 cylinder Z4M and other earlier M3, M5, and M6's. Legend has it that early production versions of the 3 liter M engines were failing catastrophically (and expensively). BMW used their ultimate lube to address these problems. The 2008 I own seems to work well with TWS.

The only problem with TWS is its $14.50 a quart price.

If only Advance Auto would stock it and include it in their $29.95 oil change deals.
_________________________
'04 Mazda RX8 5W30 NAPA Syn
'10 &'11 Camry Edge 0W-20
'11 Landcruiser 5W20 PU
'13 BMW 550IX BMW 5W30
'08 BMW Z4M Coupe TWS 10W60
'13 BMW M6 BMW 5W30

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#3260734 - 01/26/14 04:37 PM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: dparm]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 12541
Loc: Chicago, IL
$14.50? My dealer sells it for $12.
_________________________
2011.5 BMW M3 saloon ZCP
der stärkste buchstabe der welt
Castrol Edge Professional TWS 10w60 + Mahle OX 254D3

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#3260876 - 01/26/14 07:01 PM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: dparm]
SilverC6 Offline


Registered: 10/03/08
Posts: 1476
Loc: Southeast
Crazy as it sounds, that's a good deal.

It would be great if Shell would bring Helix 10W-60 to the US in their Pennzoil Ultra Euro line up.

But that would be very unlikely.

_________________________
'04 Mazda RX8 5W30 NAPA Syn
'10 &'11 Camry Edge 0W-20
'11 Landcruiser 5W20 PU
'13 BMW 550IX BMW 5W30
'08 BMW Z4M Coupe TWS 10W60
'13 BMW M6 BMW 5W30

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#3261213 - 01/27/14 04:19 AM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: dparm]
bigjl Offline


Registered: 09/06/12
Posts: 1704
Loc: London, England
I'm with Overkill and NMBurb on this.

M engines have a choice of the two oils listed. Not any LL01 oil
_________________________
06 Clio1.5DCi,133k 6kOCI Shell Extra 5w40
08 Pathfinder 2.5 Dci Sold with 125k
12 Jaguar XJL 3.0 D Luxury 118k 8kOCI Mob 1 ESP 5w30

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#3262124 - 01/27/14 10:45 PM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: bigjl]
SilverC6 Offline


Registered: 10/03/08
Posts: 1476
Loc: Southeast
Originally Posted By: bigjl
I'm with Overkill and NMBurb on this.

M engines have a choice of the two oils listed. Not any LL01 oil


Castrol's Belgian 0W-40, GC (now Belgian too), and M1 0W-40 are fine for the 4.4 liter M engine in the 2012 to current M5 and M6 models.
_________________________
'04 Mazda RX8 5W30 NAPA Syn
'10 &'11 Camry Edge 0W-20
'11 Landcruiser 5W20 PU
'13 BMW 550IX BMW 5W30
'08 BMW Z4M Coupe TWS 10W60
'13 BMW M6 BMW 5W30

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#3262647 - 01/28/14 12:59 PM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: dparm]
gatorfast Offline


Registered: 10/17/13
Posts: 9
Loc: Fla
At first I interpreted the bulletin to mean that any LL-01 oil was approved for the S65 engine. Now after studying it some more I am not so sure.

I was planning on making the switch to M1 0-40 next oil change but Im second guessing that. I wish BMW would provide some clarity frown
_________________________
E90 M3

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#3263604 - 01/29/14 09:56 AM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: dparm]
330indy Offline


Registered: 07/05/07
Posts: 72
Loc: Indianapolis
it is a simple choice. run the oil you know is approved, and IF you have an engine issue/warranty is good.

oh.... and get the extended warranty!


Edited by 330indy (01/29/14 09:58 AM)

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#3275080 - 02/08/14 05:13 PM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: dparm]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 25924
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: BMW Oil Supplier Listing Aug2013 V2
*The following is the only recommended and approved synthetic oil for BMW M (Motorsport) vehicles in the US market with gasoline engines, at the present time.

BMW Long-life rating LL-01 Synthetic Oils for BMW M vehicles
equipped with S54, S62, S65 or S85 engines

Castrol EDGE Professional TWS Motorsport SAE 10W-60 Synthetic Engine Oil, BMW part number 07 51 0 009 420
or
Castrol Edge Professional OE 5W30 Synthetic Engine Oil, BMW part number 07 51 0 037 195

This list is a cluster**** in more than one way. BMW part number 07 51 0 037 195 is a low-ash LL-04 oil for diesel engines. They want you to run it in your gasoline M engine? Right...
_________________________
'02 530i (PU 5W-40)
'08 C300 4Matic (M1 0W-40)
'13 F700 GS (BMW HP 15W-50)

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#3276204 - 02/09/14 05:55 PM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: dparm]
rw19 Offline


Registered: 12/30/13
Posts: 137
Loc: British Columbia
Lets get realistic. Most luxury owners don't do there own oil changes. I doubt BMW cares about this confusion. Heck they might be causing it to prevent you from your doing your own. Wouldnt be the first or the last time!
_________________________
2004 Lincoln Navigator 5.4L PU 5w20 fl820s 91,100km
2014 Corvette Z51 3LT Laguna Blue - Factory Fill
2012 CTS-V 6.2L V8 M1 0w 40 K&N PS-1017 14,200km


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#3276222 - 02/09/14 06:23 PM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: rw19]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 25924
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: rw19
Heck they might be causing it to prevent you from your doing your own.

Agreed. I basically came to the same conclusion the last time this topic was discussed - let's scare the average Joe into thinking that BMW/Castrol oil is the only oil that can be used, and make him think that the safest thing to do is to have him bring the car to the dealer.
_________________________
'02 530i (PU 5W-40)
'08 C300 4Matic (M1 0W-40)
'13 F700 GS (BMW HP 15W-50)

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#3300792 - 03/03/14 10:41 PM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: dparm]
brian_fantana Offline


Registered: 03/01/14
Posts: 10
Loc: WA
I'm up for an oil change and am thinking of mixing my castrol 10w60 with either castrol 0w30 or 0w40 which I hear is new. My engine in the winter rarely hits 210 degrees so I'm thinking the 10w60 is too thick. As summer approaches I tend to burn oil, so as I do I'm thinking I will add 10w60 as weather gets hotter. To start I was going to do 6qt of 10w60 with 3qt of the thinner stuff. Any thoughts? I have read and read and read on this topic both here and on the m3 forum and so many running M1 0w40 have had great blackstone reports and are claiming better power because engine isn't working as hard with the thinner oil. I would love input from anyone on this. I know what BMW says and what the manual says but a guy in AZ probably wouldn't use the same oil as a guy running in near freezing temps right?
_________________________
'09 E90 M3 DCT

Castrol Edge 10w60

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#3301207 - 03/04/14 12:25 PM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: brian_fantana]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 12541
Loc: Chicago, IL
Originally Posted By: brian_fantana
I'm up for an oil change and am thinking of mixing my castrol 10w60 with either castrol 0w30 or 0w40 which I hear is new. My engine in the winter rarely hits 210 degrees so I'm thinking the 10w60 is too thick. As summer approaches I tend to burn oil, so as I do I'm thinking I will add 10w60 as weather gets hotter. To start I was going to do 6qt of 10w60 with 3qt of the thinner stuff. Any thoughts? I have read and read and read on this topic both here and on the m3 forum and so many running M1 0w40 have had great blackstone reports and are claiming better power because engine isn't working as hard with the thinner oil. I would love input from anyone on this. I know what BMW says and what the manual says but a guy in AZ probably wouldn't use the same oil as a guy running in near freezing temps right?



There's no need to mix. Either run TWS, or run something else. Don't play home-chemist. While API oils must mix with other API oils, the results may not be optimal. Since your car is burning oil, you might want to use the TWS to slow that down.

Then again, you could try the 0w40 and see what happens. Worst case, the consumption goes up and you just switch back to TWS. The 0w40 is certainly up to the task in the S65.

FWIW, my car on M1 0w40 barely touches 210 in the winter either. Remember that these are not air-cooled cars so there's very little oil temperature difference across the different seasons.
_________________________
2011.5 BMW M3 saloon ZCP
der stärkste buchstabe der welt
Castrol Edge Professional TWS 10w60 + Mahle OX 254D3

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#3301250 - 03/04/14 01:07 PM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: dparm]
Leonardo629 Offline


Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 227
Loc: So. Cal
I'm running M1 0W40 with a can of LM MoS2....and I'm not burning oil. Either M3 is just not burning oil, or MoS2 is really helping in that regard.
_________________________
2013 Accord EX-L --> TGMO 0W20
2013 E92 M3 --> M1 0W40

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#3301830 - 03/04/14 10:50 PM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: dparm]
brian_fantana Offline


Registered: 03/01/14
Posts: 10
Loc: WA
What made you switch to M1? I see your in IL. and with your winter I'm sure the M1 has been more than necessary. I have always burned oil since I purchased the car with 29k miles. I burn like 2 qts between changes. I'm not sure if it's my driving habits during warm up or if it's how the car was driven during break in. Although I'm really starting to be more aware of what I'm doing before my temp is over 200.
_________________________
'09 E90 M3 DCT

Castrol Edge 10w60

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#3301868 - 03/04/14 11:51 PM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: Leonardo629]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7387
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: Leonardo629
I'm running M1 0W40 with a can of LM MoS2....and I'm not burning oil. Either M3 is just not burning oil, or MoS2 is really helping in that regard.



Mos2 is great stuff man.
Try ceratec. Its like mos2 but uses ceramic nano particles or something. It last for 30000 miles between treatments too however I'm using it every second oil change. I've got a stash.
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#3301886 - 03/05/14 12:23 AM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: brian_fantana]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 12541
Loc: Chicago, IL
Originally Posted By: brian_fantana
What made you switch to M1? I see your in IL. and with your winter I'm sure the M1 has been more than necessary. I have always burned oil since I purchased the car with 29k miles. I burn like 2 qts between changes. I'm not sure if it's my driving habits during warm up or if it's how the car was driven during break in. Although I'm really starting to be more aware of what I'm doing before my temp is over 200.


Because why not? It's a great oil that's up to the challenge.

Burning 2 quarts between changes is above average. Mine burns zero.
_________________________
2011.5 BMW M3 saloon ZCP
der stärkste buchstabe der welt
Castrol Edge Professional TWS 10w60 + Mahle OX 254D3

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#3301898 - 03/05/14 12:53 AM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: dparm]
brian_fantana Offline


Registered: 03/01/14
Posts: 10
Loc: WA
Just realized who I was talking to.... Your on every oil post on the m3 forum. Given my situation what would you do if you were in my shoes. Planning to have a blackstone report done with this oil change to see how I'm doing, but I really don't beat my ride. I'm on the freeway the majority of the time with the cruise set. I would think the oil burning occurs pre operating temp no?
_________________________
'09 E90 M3 DCT

Castrol Edge 10w60

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#3301919 - 03/05/14 02:53 AM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: Clevy]
Leonardo629 Offline


Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 227
Loc: So. Cal
A can of MoS2 is around $5.60 plus tax where I live, and I have a little stash of it. I don't know about running Ceratec in my M3, but so far I notice no ill effect with MoS2 and my car is not burning oil even though I occasionally rev my car to 8600RPM.




Originally Posted By: Clevy
Mos2 is great stuff man.
Try ceratec. Its like mos2 but uses ceramic nano particles or something. It last for 30000 miles between treatments too however I'm using it every second oil change. I've got a stash.


Edited by Leonardo629 (03/05/14 02:55 AM)
_________________________
2013 Accord EX-L --> TGMO 0W20
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#3302126 - 03/05/14 10:02 AM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: brian_fantana]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 12541
Loc: Chicago, IL
Originally Posted By: brian_fantana
Just realized who I was talking to.... Your on every oil post on the m3 forum. Given my situation what would you do if you were in my shoes. Planning to have a blackstone report done with this oil change to see how I'm doing, but I really don't beat my ride. I'm on the freeway the majority of the time with the cruise set. I would think the oil burning occurs pre operating temp no?



I'd run the M1 0w40 without hesitation.

Are you positive the oil is burning and it's not leaking?
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2011.5 BMW M3 saloon ZCP
der stärkste buchstabe der welt
Castrol Edge Professional TWS 10w60 + Mahle OX 254D3

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#3302698 - 03/05/14 08:21 PM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: dparm]
brian_fantana Offline


Registered: 03/01/14
Posts: 10
Loc: WA
Yes positive. Its garaged so I would spot if I was leaking, plus the smell is extremely distinct. I have been using the service warning as to when it's time to change. I'm not even sure what the intervals are between changes. My ignorance is kind of embarrassing. From what I have read it's very common to go 5k I think. A habit I'll probably adopt.

I did see some guys posting saying they were going through 1 qt every 2-3k. I'm doing a qt like every 6 months. Leonardo629 (another huge m3 poster) has me tempted to try that additive he's using.
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'09 E90 M3 DCT

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#3303061 - 03/06/14 08:01 AM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: dparm]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 12541
Loc: Chicago, IL
The factory interval is 15k, or whenever the car tells you to change it.

Most guys opt to split the difference and change it every 7-8k. I would certainly keep an eye on that consumption. If it is consistently drinking that much oil you are probably okay, but if the rate is going up then you should be investigating.
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2011.5 BMW M3 saloon ZCP
der stärkste buchstabe der welt
Castrol Edge Professional TWS 10w60 + Mahle OX 254D3

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#3303213 - 03/06/14 10:20 AM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: brian_fantana]
BMWTurboDzl Offline


Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 1289
Loc: Atlanta,GA
Originally Posted By: brian_fantana
Yes positive. Its garaged so I would spot if I was leaking, plus the smell is extremely distinct. I have been using the service warning as to when it's time to change. I'm not even sure what the intervals are between changes. My ignorance is kind of embarrassing. From what I have read it's very common to go 5k I think. A habit I'll probably adopt.

I did see some guys posting saying they were going through 1 qt every 2-3k. I'm doing a qt like every 6 months. Leonardo629 (another huge m3 poster) has me tempted to try that additive he's using.


Personally I think type of break-in has much to do with regards to oil consumption. Pity BMW doesn't do a break-in for the engine at the factory.
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'15 435i - Factory fill.
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#3303357 - 03/06/14 01:03 PM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: dparm]
Leonardo629 Offline


Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 227
Loc: So. Cal
I didn't want to mention break-in procedures because it's a can of worm that needn't be opened.

I have been in the "hard" break-in camp since my younger motorcycle days, so of course I couldn't shake the old habit even when it comes to cars.

I really can't tell you if it's the MoS2 or my break-in method, but my S65 is not burning oil (I have around 4000mi accumulated on the M1 0W40, will change at @ 5000mi and an UOA).

High revving M motors are equipped with low tension piston rings according to a quote I read by a M engineer, so it's normal to burn some oil, did you check your oil cap? BMW oil caps do not seal for the amount we pay for these M cars.
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#3303362 - 03/06/14 01:10 PM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: dparm]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 12541
Loc: Chicago, IL
BMW M engines have the 1200 mile break-in period. Special oil and redline is severely reduced. Most modern motors come broken-in anyway.

Not sure why there's an expectation that a car should burn zero oil. As long as it is drinking it at a reasonable and consistent rate, keep on driving it and enjoying it.
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2011.5 BMW M3 saloon ZCP
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#3303677 - 03/06/14 06:44 PM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: dparm]
vinu_neuro Offline


Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 966
Loc: Chicago / IN
Originally Posted By: dparm
Most modern motors come broken-in anyway.



It is the opposite. 95-97% of engines aren't fired at the factory. They are only cold tested.
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#3304347 - 03/07/14 10:35 AM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: vinu_neuro]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 12541
Loc: Chicago, IL
Originally Posted By: vinu_neuro
Originally Posted By: dparm
Most modern motors come broken-in anyway.



It is the opposite. 95-97% of engines aren't fired at the factory. They are only cold tested.



I oversimplified. Modern engines are built with very good tolerances and didn't have the variation you used to see 40+ years ago. The notion of break-in is not what it used to be.

I know for a fact that BMW does put all their cars on the dyno before they leave the factory.
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2011.5 BMW M3 saloon ZCP
der stärkste buchstabe der welt
Castrol Edge Professional TWS 10w60 + Mahle OX 254D3

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#3304401 - 03/07/14 11:46 AM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: dparm]
BMWTurboDzl Offline


Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 1289
Loc: Atlanta,GA
Originally Posted By: dparm
Originally Posted By: vinu_neuro
Originally Posted By: dparm
Most modern motors come broken-in anyway.



It is the opposite. 95-97% of engines aren't fired at the factory. They are only cold tested.



I oversimplified. Modern engines are built with very good tolerances and didn't have the variation you used to see 40+ years ago. The notion of break-in is not what it used to be.

I know for a fact that BMW does put all their cars on the dyno before they leave the factory.


+1, but they're not cycles under different loads from what I understand.
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#3308987 - 03/12/14 04:06 AM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: dparm]
Olas Offline


Registered: 12/11/13
Posts: 619
Loc: Manchester, England
BMW's confusing and self-contradictory statements regarding oil for M motors comes down to two things;

1 - A way to wriggle out of repairs under warranty, chances are the car did not follow the reccomendations every time they were changed,

and

2 - The prevalence of the internet means that you guys in the US can pick up a TSB that was meant for the colds of Northern Europe (or some other geographical crossed lines leading to misinterpretation)

Bottom line?
Redline or Millers.

/thread.
_________________________
1982 VW Scirocco
1457cc
98 bhp
1900 lbs
71000 miles
44mpg
Weber/Millers/Mahle/ITG/Leda/Michelin/Brembo/Pagid/Pioneer

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#3330822 - 04/01/14 09:26 PM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: dparm]
SilverC6 Offline


Registered: 10/03/08
Posts: 1476
Loc: Southeast
Well I'm even more confused now.

The dealer just performed the 1200 mile service on my M6.

I requested Castrol 0W-40 be used but the dealer advised that, indeed, BMW 5W-30 was the proper fill.

Owner's manual clearly states 0W-30 or 0w-40 is approved with 5W-30 and 5W-40 also being acceptable.

I plan to run the 5W-30 for 5000 miles and then change with Castrol 0W-40 myself.

Even with uber LL-01 Euro spec oil, I can't say I believe in BMW's 10K OCI for this vehicle.
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'04 Mazda RX8 5W30 NAPA Syn
'10 &'11 Camry Edge 0W-20
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#3330878 - 04/01/14 10:09 PM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: SilverC6]
edyvw Offline


Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 1092
Loc: Colorado Springs
It is not only BMW, all manufacturers are saving on oil since they are performing "free" oil changes (free means you will come later once carbon builds up etc).
Go check my UOA on M1 0W40. After 5K TBN was at 2.6!
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10' VW CC 2.0T (M1 0W40+Mann)
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (M1 ESP 5W30+OEM Filter)

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#3331224 - 04/02/14 09:32 AM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: Olas]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 12541
Loc: Chicago, IL
Originally Posted By: Olas
BMW's confusing and self-contradictory statements regarding oil for M motors comes down to two things;

1 - A way to wriggle out of repairs under warranty, chances are the car did not follow the reccomendations every time they were changed,

and

2 - The prevalence of the internet means that you guys in the US can pick up a TSB that was meant for the colds of Northern Europe (or some other geographical crossed lines leading to misinterpretation)

Bottom line?
Redline or Millers.

/thread.



If you read the links to the M3 discussion forum I posted, it is actually a matter of BMW NA making a different recommendation than BMW corporate. The memo saying LL01 is okay was only for North America. Everywhere else, you have to keep using TWS.
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2011.5 BMW M3 saloon ZCP
der stärkste buchstabe der welt
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#3331226 - 04/02/14 09:33 AM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: SilverC6]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 12541
Loc: Chicago, IL
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Well I'm even more confused now.

The dealer just performed the 1200 mile service on my M6.

I requested Castrol 0W-40 be used but the dealer advised that, indeed, BMW 5W-30 was the proper fill.

Owner's manual clearly states 0W-30 or 0w-40 is approved with 5W-30 and 5W-40 also being acceptable.

I plan to run the 5W-30 for 5000 miles and then change with Castrol 0W-40 myself.

Even with uber LL-01 Euro spec oil, I can't say I believe in BMW's 10K OCI for this vehicle.




The manual probably says 0w30, 0w40, 5w30, and 5w40 are acceptable for top-ups. Mine says that.

10k might not be so bad, actually. Remember that the car has a huge sump and a large filter. There are a lot of M cars that did the 15k intervals without any major problems. Mine did.
_________________________
2011.5 BMW M3 saloon ZCP
der stärkste buchstabe der welt
Castrol Edge Professional TWS 10w60 + Mahle OX 254D3

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#3331270 - 04/02/14 10:30 AM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: dparm]
SilverC6 Offline


Registered: 10/03/08
Posts: 1476
Loc: Southeast
The turbo V8 M6 has a 9 quart sump and the filter has about three times the surface area of a Camry filter.

The dealer asked for $41 for a filter for my next unscheduled change.

About $22 online so I passed.

Maybe I can find a Purolator or OCOD for it. : )
_________________________
'04 Mazda RX8 5W30 NAPA Syn
'10 &'11 Camry Edge 0W-20
'11 Landcruiser 5W20 PU
'13 BMW 550IX BMW 5W30
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#3331276 - 04/02/14 10:33 AM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: SilverC6]
edyvw Offline


Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 1092
Loc: Colorado Springs
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
The turbo V8 M6 has a 9 quart sump and the filter has about three times the surface area of a Camry filter.

The dealer asked for $41 for a filter for my next unscheduled change.

About $22 online so I passed.

Maybe I can find a Purolator or OCOD for it. : )

Are you serious?
Stick to original. You are driving M6 and trying to save on filter?
_________________________
10' VW CC 2.0T (M1 0W40+Mann)
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (M1 ESP 5W30+OEM Filter)

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#3331277 - 04/02/14 10:33 AM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: SilverC6]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 12541
Loc: Chicago, IL
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
The turbo V8 M6 has a 9 quart sump and the filter has about three times the surface area of a Camry filter.

The dealer asked for $41 for a filter for my next unscheduled change.

About $22 online so I passed.

Maybe I can find a Purolator or OCOD for it. : )



You can find a Purolator for it -- it will be labeled as a Mann filter.
_________________________
2011.5 BMW M3 saloon ZCP
der stärkste buchstabe der welt
Castrol Edge Professional TWS 10w60 + Mahle OX 254D3

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#3331280 - 04/02/14 10:35 AM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: edyvw]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 12541
Loc: Chicago, IL
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
The turbo V8 M6 has a 9 quart sump and the filter has about three times the surface area of a Camry filter.

The dealer asked for $41 for a filter for my next unscheduled change.

About $22 online so I passed.

Maybe I can find a Purolator or OCOD for it. : )

Are you serious?
Stick to original. You are driving M6 and trying to save on filter?



Edyvw, just because the car costs $100,000 doesn't mean that the price of parts should be jacked way up. It's an oil filter, a common service part. We're not talking about a very unique low-volume replacement part here.

It frustrates me when guys on the M3 boards ridicule people who don't want to spend $4000+ on an exhaust and instead opt for the $1500 one with identical build quality but a less-respectable name. "Dude, you spent $75,000 on the car and don't want to spend extra for an Akrapovic exhaust?" No, I don't.
_________________________
2011.5 BMW M3 saloon ZCP
der stärkste buchstabe der welt
Castrol Edge Professional TWS 10w60 + Mahle OX 254D3

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#3331281 - 04/02/14 10:36 AM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: dparm]
edyvw Offline


Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 1092
Loc: Colorado Springs
Originally Posted By: dparm
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
The turbo V8 M6 has a 9 quart sump and the filter has about three times the surface area of a Camry filter.

The dealer asked for $41 for a filter for my next unscheduled change.

About $22 online so I passed.

Maybe I can find a Purolator or OCOD for it. : )



You can find a Purolator for it -- it will be labeled as a Mann filter.

WHy would you get Mann if car is still under warranty? Mann is OEM for BMW, but if it is under warranty BMW wants original to be used.
_________________________
10' VW CC 2.0T (M1 0W40+Mann)
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (M1 ESP 5W30+OEM Filter)

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#3331340 - 04/02/14 11:50 AM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: edyvw]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 25924
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: edyvw
WHy would you get Mann if car is still under warranty? Mann is OEM for BMW, but if it is under warranty BMW wants original to be used.

What's wrong with Mann? Last time I checked, the owner's manual didn't require that only OEM filter can be used.

Not to mention that Mann is one of the OEMs, as you pointed out.
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'02 530i (PU 5W-40)
'08 C300 4Matic (M1 0W-40)
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#3331409 - 04/02/14 01:25 PM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: Quattro Pete]
edyvw Offline


Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 1092
Loc: Colorado Springs
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: edyvw
WHy would you get Mann if car is still under warranty? Mann is OEM for BMW, but if it is under warranty BMW wants original to be used.

What's wrong with Mann? Last time I checked, the owner's manual didn't require that only OEM filter can be used.

Not to mention that Mann is one of the OEMs, as you pointed out.

As far as I know, owners manual in my car also does not require OEM filter, BUT still do not want to test waters with VW.
I would say, if you have car under warranty keep using OEM until warranty runs out.
_________________________
10' VW CC 2.0T (M1 0W40+Mann)
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (M1 ESP 5W30+OEM Filter)

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#3331455 - 04/02/14 02:37 PM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: dparm]
SilverC6 Offline


Registered: 10/03/08
Posts: 1476
Loc: Southeast
I was kidding about the OCOD and the Purolator.

The point of the post was that the dealer was charging $41 for the same OEM BMW/Mahle filter that could be purchased online for around $20.

For the record, a FRAM to fit the car costs $20 anyway and is just a repackaged Mahle.
_________________________
'04 Mazda RX8 5W30 NAPA Syn
'10 &'11 Camry Edge 0W-20
'11 Landcruiser 5W20 PU
'13 BMW 550IX BMW 5W30
'08 BMW Z4M Coupe TWS 10W60
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#3331468 - 04/02/14 02:44 PM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: edyvw]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 12541
Loc: Chicago, IL
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: dparm
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
The turbo V8 M6 has a 9 quart sump and the filter has about three times the surface area of a Camry filter.

The dealer asked for $41 for a filter for my next unscheduled change.

About $22 online so I passed.

Maybe I can find a Purolator or OCOD for it. : )



You can find a Purolator for it -- it will be labeled as a Mann filter.

WHy would you get Mann if car is still under warranty? Mann is OEM for BMW, but if it is under warranty BMW wants original to be used.



Mahle is actually the big supplier for BMW OEM filters, from what I can see. Hengst and Mann of course have them too.
_________________________
2011.5 BMW M3 saloon ZCP
der stärkste buchstabe der welt
Castrol Edge Professional TWS 10w60 + Mahle OX 254D3

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#3331645 - 04/02/14 06:21 PM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: SilverC6]
edyvw Offline


Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 1092
Loc: Colorado Springs
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
I was kidding about the OCOD and the Purolator.

The point of the post was that the dealer was charging $41 for the same OEM BMW/Mahle filter that could be purchased online for around $20.

For the record, a FRAM to fit the car costs $20 anyway and is just a repackaged Mahle.

I do not know. I trust MANN, have them in my car. I am also familiar with MANN production, and while MANN is of superb quality, I know that OEM are slightly different (filter paper).
Of course, $20 is big difference for same filter. At least VW is not charging any different (I think difference is like $1-2).
_________________________
10' VW CC 2.0T (M1 0W40+Mann)
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (M1 ESP 5W30+OEM Filter)

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#3332056 - 04/03/14 08:42 AM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: SilverC6]
BMWTurboDzl Offline


Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 1289
Loc: Atlanta,GA
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Well I'm even more confused now.

The dealer just performed the 1200 mile service on my M6.

I requested Castrol 0W-40 be used but the dealer advised that, indeed, BMW 5W-30 was the proper fill.

Owner's manual clearly states 0W-30 or 0w-40 is approved with 5W-30 and 5W-40 also being acceptable.

I plan to run the 5W-30 for 5000 miles and then change with Castrol 0W-40 myself.

Even with uber LL-01 Euro spec oil, I can't say I believe in BMW's 10K OCI for this vehicle.


Technically BMW dealers shouldn't stock 0-40. They only stock BMW 5w30, TWS, and LL04 Edge 5w30. Maybe some 10w40/30 for older cars.
_________________________
'15 435i - Factory fill.
'10 335d (sold)

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#3332241 - 04/03/14 12:10 PM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: dparm]
SilverC6 Offline


Registered: 10/03/08
Posts: 1476
Loc: Southeast
I guess moving everything to the LL-04 elixir is important to BMWUSA.

I need to see a VOA on the stuff in comparison to GC.

Maybe I'm concerned about nothing.
_________________________
'04 Mazda RX8 5W30 NAPA Syn
'10 &'11 Camry Edge 0W-20
'11 Landcruiser 5W20 PU
'13 BMW 550IX BMW 5W30
'08 BMW Z4M Coupe TWS 10W60
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#3332246 - 04/03/14 12:13 PM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: SilverC6]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 25924
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
I guess moving everything to the LL-04 elixir is important to BMWUSA.

They won't do it until the gasoline quality in the US improves. Can't remember what's the latest schedule to make our gasoline ultra-low sulfur...
_________________________
'02 530i (PU 5W-40)
'08 C300 4Matic (M1 0W-40)
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#3332425 - 04/03/14 03:00 PM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: SilverC6]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 12541
Loc: Chicago, IL
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
I guess moving everything to the LL-04 elixir is important to BMWUSA.

I need to see a VOA on the stuff in comparison to GC.

Maybe I'm concerned about nothing.



I think you are indeed concerned about nothing. BMW develops those oils with Castrol to meet their specific requirements. It's not advantageous for them to try and cheap out on something that has the BMW name on it that must be used in millions of vehicles.

I don't think the BMW-branded oils are the best you can buy, but I think they are certainly adequate for the majority of users.
_________________________
2011.5 BMW M3 saloon ZCP
der stärkste buchstabe der welt
Castrol Edge Professional TWS 10w60 + Mahle OX 254D3

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#3344158 - 04/16/14 04:25 AM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: dparm]
riggaz Offline


Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 304
Loc: England
Originally Posted By: dparm
Castrol wouldn't bother paying for TWS to get certified as LL-01 since it was never intended for widespread use. It would easily pass, in my opinion.


Not sure it would do the longlife oil drain interval would it?

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#3344215 - 04/16/14 07:12 AM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: riggaz]
gatorfast Offline


Registered: 10/17/13
Posts: 9
Loc: Fla
Originally Posted By: riggaz

Not sure it would do the longlife oil drain interval would it?


Yes, TWS is used in M cars with drain intervals of 15k miles (though most change before that). It would not be rated LL-01 though due to the weight and characteristics of the oil (i.e. the special 10w-60 is not suitable for use in regular 3 series, 5 series, etc).
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E90 M3

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#3344351 - 04/16/14 10:19 AM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: riggaz]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 12541
Loc: Chicago, IL
Originally Posted By: riggaz
Originally Posted By: dparm
Castrol wouldn't bother paying for TWS to get certified as LL-01 since it was never intended for widespread use. It would easily pass, in my opinion.


Not sure it would do the longlife oil drain interval would it?



It did the 15k intervals in my car just fine. The sump and filter are quite large, which helps.
_________________________
2011.5 BMW M3 saloon ZCP
der stärkste buchstabe der welt
Castrol Edge Professional TWS 10w60 + Mahle OX 254D3

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#3344430 - 04/16/14 11:17 AM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: dparm]
riggaz Offline


Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 304
Loc: England
Originally Posted By: dparm
Originally Posted By: riggaz
Originally Posted By: dparm
Castrol wouldn't bother paying for TWS to get certified as LL-01 since it was never intended for widespread use. It would easily pass, in my opinion.


Not sure it would do the longlife oil drain interval would it?



It did the 15k intervals in my car just fine. The sump and filter are quite large, which helps.


Ah ok, makes sense, like the other chap said, must be a viscosity thing.

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#3437395 - 07/27/14 01:50 PM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: dparm]
bimmerdriver Offline


Registered: 09/07/10
Posts: 79
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
Originally Posted By: dparm
The factory interval is 15k, or whenever the car tells you to change it.

Most guys opt to split the difference and change it every 7-8k.

When I was shopping for an E46 M3 last summer, I looked at several that were given 20k km oil changes. All of them had dark brown deposits inside the valve cover and one even had sludge and rust on the dipstick. It had 59k kms and had been treated to only 2 oil changes up to that point. The car I ended up purchasing was low mileage, only 11600 kms and had been given numerous oil changes (based on time, not mileage). I bought the car 11 months and 3500 kms ago. The PO changed the oil right before I bought it. The maintenance indicator is still saying over 16k kms before the next oil change. There is no way I will leave it in that long. It would take at least a couple more years to accumulate that much mileage. I will be changing the oil in a couple of weeks. I don't know what BMW was thinking making a 15k mi or 20k km oci recommendation. I think 7-8k mi or 10k kms mileage or maximum of one year duration makes much more sense if you want to keep the engine clean. My mechanic says this is a good idea for the N54 and N55 engines also, due to amount of fuel that gets into the oil.
_________________________
2002 BMW M3 (mine)
1997 BMW 328is (sold)
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#3437402 - 07/27/14 01:54 PM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: bimmerdriver]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 25924
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: bimmerdriver
I don't know what BMW was thinking making a 15k mi or 20k km oci recommendation.

Well, out here in the US, BMW is including all maintenance at "no cost" during the 4-year/50K mile warranty period, so they don't want to be providing these services too often. That's why also the trans fluid become a "lifetime" fluid all of a sudden.
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'02 530i (PU 5W-40)
'08 C300 4Matic (M1 0W-40)
'13 F700 GS (BMW HP 15W-50)

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#3437406 - 07/27/14 02:05 PM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: dparm]
bimmerdriver Offline


Registered: 09/07/10
Posts: 79
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
Originally Posted By: dparm
Mahle is actually the big supplier for BMW OEM filters, from what I can see. Hengst and Mann of course have them too.

I'm pretty certain it's correct that Mahle is the OEM, at least for my S54 engine. Here is a link to pic of the OE BMW filter. Here is a link to a pic of the Mahle filter. Here is a link to a pic of the Mann filter. I don't think there is much doubt the Mahle filter is the same as the BMW filter. It seems to be more robust than the Mann filter. I wouldn't hesitate to spend a $2 more to get the Mahle over the Mann.
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2002 BMW M3 (mine)
1997 BMW 328is (sold)
2002 MB ML320 (hers)
2004 VW GTI (son)

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#3437408 - 07/27/14 02:08 PM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: Quattro Pete]
bimmerdriver Offline


Registered: 09/07/10
Posts: 79
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: bimmerdriver
I don't know what BMW was thinking making a 15k mi or 20k km oci recommendation.

Well, out here in the US, BMW is including all maintenance at "no cost" during the 4-year/50K mile warranty period, so they don't want to be providing these services too often. That's why also the trans fluid become a "lifetime" fluid all of a sudden.

I guess if you only care about the car during the warranty period, it makes no difference what happens after. If you want the car to last beyond the warranty period, it's another matter.
_________________________
2002 BMW M3 (mine)
1997 BMW 328is (sold)
2002 MB ML320 (hers)
2004 VW GTI (son)

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