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#3259500 - 01/25/14 10:25 AM The confusion around BMW M oils continues
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 12503
Loc: Chicago, IL
Someone just pulled this off BMW ISTA database:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15330450&postcount=1951

The chart shows that only Castrol Edge Professional TWS 10w60 is allowed in the S54, S62, S65, & S85 (M car) engines. This is contrary to what an August 2013 BMW bulletin said:


Originally Posted By: BMW Oil Supplier Listing Aug2013 V2

BMW CURRENT LISTING OF SYNTHETIC OILS (US Market)

Required maintenance work or services should be performed for your vehicle by your authorized
BMW center.

BMW High Performance Synthetic Oil is recommended for scheduled engine oil changes.

BMW Genuine Oil SAE 5W-30 Synthetic Oil*
* Does not apply to M vehicles - see below for further information

BMW part number 07 51 0 017 866 – 12 x 1 qt case

BMW part number 07 510 038 678 – 24 x 1qt Enviropack

BMW part number 07 51 0 017 954 – 55 gallon drum


BMW recommends that you check your engine oil level whenever you add fuel to your vehicle.

If you need to add oil between oil changes and BMW High Performance Synthetic Oil is unavailable,visit your nearest authorized BMW Center. For information on checking your engine oil level refer to your vehicle’s Owner’s Manual.

The choice of the right SAE grade is based on the climatic conditions in the region in which you normally drive your BMW.

To best determine which SAE grade is best suited for your vehicle contact an authorized BMW center.

*The following is the only recommended and approved synthetic oil for BMW M (Motorsport) vehicles in the US market with gasoline engines, at the present time.

BMW Long-life rating LL-01 Synthetic Oils for BMW M vehicles
equipped with S54, S62, S65 or S85 engines

Castrol EDGE Professional TWS Motorsport SAE 10W-60 Synthetic Engine Oil, BMW part number 07 51 0 009 420
or
Castrol Edge Professional OE 5W30 Synthetic Engine Oil, BMW part number 07 51 0 037 195

The following is a listing of synthetic oils recommended and approved for use in the BMW B7 ALPINA in the US market:

BMW Genuine Oil SAE 5W-30 Synthetic Oil
BMW part number 07 51 0 017 866


(source: http://cache.bmwusa.com/Pdf_59436a7e-93e...72-e40e9ca36785)



Frankly I'm quite aggravated that BMW can't get their story straight on what oils are allowable in certain M engines. For many years they only allow the Castrol TWS, then release the above bulletin in August to expand it to any LL-01 oil, and now their own database shows that's not the case. I'm not sure if the ISTA database is just a few months behind on updates, or if they've reneged on the use of LL-01.

The newer M5 & M6 engines (twin-turbo V8, code S63B44Tu) do allow LL-01, for what it's worth. Many owners of M cars have since switched to oils like Mobil 1 0w40 and the cars seem to run quite well with them. I've seen a bunch of UOAs, and there are a lot of people posting that the oil temps are lower on the track and the car actually drives better.

Obviously this has been the topic of much discussion across the BMW owner websites, and this recent ISTA info only stirs the pot again.

Here's our own discussion of it from late last year:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3151053

confused
_________________________
2011.5 BMW M3 saloon ZCP
der stärkste buchstabe der welt
Castrol Edge Professional TWS 10w60 + Mahle OX 254D3

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#3259552 - 01/25/14 11:22 AM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: dparm]
satinsilver Offline


Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 2911
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: dparm
Frankly I'm quite aggravated that BMW can't get their story straight on what oils are allowable in certain M engines.


Agreed but at least they're staying on top of the issue instead of letting something grow and fester. Or outright ignore similar to Toyota with the slugging problem. I own a Toyota so no smart remarks there guys.

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#3259594 - 01/25/14 11:59 AM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: dparm]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 33626
Loc: New Jersey
My read is that the 10w-60 and edge 5w-30 OE are the only oils recommended for the M engines. BMW genuine oil isn't suitable.

My read as posted/quoted was that only those two ll-01 oils are suitable. Thus it is consistent. Maybe I'm reading g the quoted text wrong, or sans some punctuation?

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#3259596 - 01/25/14 12:00 PM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: JHZR2]
OVERKILL Online   content


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 26160
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
My read is that the 10w-60 and edge 5w-30 OE are the only oils recommended for the M engines. BMW genuine oil isn't suitable.

My read as posted/quoted was that only those two ll-01 oils are suitable. Thus it is consistent. Maybe I'm reading g the quoted text wrong, or sans some punctuation?


That's what I took away from it too shrug
_________________________
Network Engineer
02 Expedition
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#3259603 - 01/25/14 12:13 PM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: dparm]
TrevorS Offline


Registered: 07/14/13
Posts: 1281
Loc: California
So under the MMA, a choice of 2 oils is ok, but only 1 choice would mean you should receive it for free?

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#3259630 - 01/25/14 12:55 PM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: JHZR2]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 12503
Loc: Chicago, IL
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
My read is that the 10w-60 and edge 5w-30 OE are the only oils recommended for the M engines. BMW genuine oil isn't suitable.

My read as posted/quoted was that only those two ll-01 oils are suitable. Thus it is consistent. Maybe I'm reading g the quoted text wrong, or sans some punctuation?



I actually read it differently: I read it that BMW High Performance Oil 5w30 is NOT LL-01 and therefore not suitable.
_________________________
2011.5 BMW M3 saloon ZCP
der stärkste buchstabe der welt
Castrol Edge Professional TWS 10w60 + Mahle OX 254D3

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#3259662 - 01/25/14 01:18 PM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: dparm]
NMBurb02 Offline


Registered: 09/12/12
Posts: 1321
Loc: Crowntown, CA
My read:

BMW Genuine Oil SAE 5W-30 Synthetic Oil es no bueno por M.

Castrol EDGE Professional TWS Motorsport SAE 10W-60 Synthetic Engine Oil y Castrol Edge Professional OE 5W30 Synthetic Engine Oil es muy bueno por M.

The linked BMW document is not formatted or written all that well. When it says "BMW Long-life rating LL-01 Synthetic Oils for BMW M vehicles equipped with S54, S62, S65 or S85 engines", that reads to me that the two oils listed immediately thereafter are the only LL-01 synthetics that are recommended for M vehicles. It does not preclude any other oils in the document from being LL-01, just that there are no other LL-01 oil that are appropriate for the listed M engines.


Edited by NMBurb02 (01/25/14 01:22 PM)
_________________________
2002 Chevy Suburban 1500, G-Oil 5W-30, Napa Gold FIL 4805
2006 Pontiac Grand Prix GT, Valvoline ML NG 10W-30 +MMO, Puro PureOne PL10111

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#3259671 - 01/25/14 01:27 PM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: NMBurb02]
SLO_Town Offline


Registered: 03/03/11
Posts: 208
Loc: California's Central Coast Win...
Originally Posted By: NMBurb02
My read:

BMW Genuine Oil SAE 5W-30 Synthetic Oil es no bueno por M.

Castrol EDGE Professional TWS Motorsport SAE 10W-60 Synthetic Engine Oil y Castrol Edge Professional OE 5W30 Synthetic Engine Oil es muy bueno por M.

The linked BMW document is not formatted or written all that well. When it says "BMW Long-life rating LL-01 Synthetic Oils for BMW M vehicles equipped with S54, S62, S65 or S85 engines", that reads to me that the two oils listed immediately thereafter are the only LL-01 synthetics that are recommended for M vehicles. It does not preclude any other oils in the document from being LL-01, just that there are no other LL-01 oil that are appropriate for the listed M engines.


This is exactly how I read it too. For example, M1 0w-40, even though LL-01 approved, is not suitable for those M-series motors.

Scott
_________________________
2003 BMW 330Ci ZSP (Motul 300V 5W-30)
2010 Honda Element SC (Castrol Syntec 0W-20)
2011 BMW 328i M-Sport (Belgian Castrol 0W-30)

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#3259758 - 01/25/14 03:25 PM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: SLO_Town]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 12503
Loc: Chicago, IL
Originally Posted By: SLO_Town
Originally Posted By: NMBurb02
My read:

BMW Genuine Oil SAE 5W-30 Synthetic Oil es no bueno por M.

Castrol EDGE Professional TWS Motorsport SAE 10W-60 Synthetic Engine Oil y Castrol Edge Professional OE 5W30 Synthetic Engine Oil es muy bueno por M.

The linked BMW document is not formatted or written all that well. When it says "BMW Long-life rating LL-01 Synthetic Oils for BMW M vehicles equipped with S54, S62, S65 or S85 engines", that reads to me that the two oils listed immediately thereafter are the only LL-01 synthetics that are recommended for M vehicles. It does not preclude any other oils in the document from being LL-01, just that there are no other LL-01 oil that are appropriate for the listed M engines.


This is exactly how I read it too. For example, M1 0w-40, even though LL-01 approved, is not suitable for those M-series motors.

Scott



Except that there is no such thing as "LL-01 approved for M vehicles". In fact, Castrol Edge Professional TWS 10w60 isn't even LL-01. It just reads "exclusive approval for BMW M-models":


ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4
API SN/CF
VW 501 01 / 505 00
Exclusive Approval For BMW M-Models
_________________________
2011.5 BMW M3 saloon ZCP
der stärkste buchstabe der welt
Castrol Edge Professional TWS 10w60 + Mahle OX 254D3

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#3259810 - 01/25/14 04:31 PM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: dparm]
Leonardo629 Offline


Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 220
Loc: So. Cal
Dan,

After senorfunkypants @ m3post.com won't let the issue go to rest, I re-read the bulletin, and it does say the oil has to be LL-01 and "approved for M" or it does not go into our M3s.

Looks like the only oil approved for our high revving S65 is the Edge Pro 10W60. Does this mean I will drain the M1 0W40 I'm currently running? Heck no...my car runs great with M1/LM MoS2.

Maybe TWS omitted LL-01 labeling all together because no standard series BMWs will ever need that oil, just deducing here.

The hard fact is that 0W40 has reduced the wear of bearings as witnessed by the few UOAs we've both seen on m3post.com.


Edited by Leonardo629 (01/25/14 04:33 PM)
_________________________
2013 Accord EX-L --> TGMO 0W20
2013 E92 M3 --> M1 0W40

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#3259908 - 01/25/14 06:12 PM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: dparm]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 12503
Loc: Chicago, IL
Castrol wouldn't bother paying for TWS to get certified as LL-01 since it was never intended for widespread use. It would easily pass, in my opinion.
_________________________
2011.5 BMW M3 saloon ZCP
der stärkste buchstabe der welt
Castrol Edge Professional TWS 10w60 + Mahle OX 254D3

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#3260263 - 01/26/14 05:35 AM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: dparm]
bobbydavro Offline


Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 88
Loc: 3rd rock from the sun
Bascially I read it as:

M engine with turbos are ok with LL01.
Non turbos require TWS.

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#3260512 - 01/26/14 12:27 PM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: dparm]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 12503
Loc: Chicago, IL
Someone just clarified something for me: the bulletin I linked to that mentions LL-01 was released by BMW USA. The ISTA database is a global thing...so clearly BMW has a different recommendation here, for some reason. I suspect it may be related to bearing failures.
_________________________
2011.5 BMW M3 saloon ZCP
der stärkste buchstabe der welt
Castrol Edge Professional TWS 10w60 + Mahle OX 254D3

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#3260584 - 01/26/14 01:53 PM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: dparm]
SilverC6 Online   content


Registered: 10/03/08
Posts: 1337
Loc: Southeast
According to the owner's manual, my V8 twin turbo powered M6 is okay with LL-01 in 0W-30 or 0W-40.

From the manual....

When selecting an engine oil, ensure that
the engine oil belongs to the viscosity grade
SAE 0W-30 or SAE 0W-40

ACEA A3/B4
API SK/CF or superior grade specification


Now the specialized TWS is applicable to my 3 liter inline 6 cylinder Z4M and other earlier M3, M5, and M6's. Legend has it that early production versions of the 3 liter M engines were failing catastrophically (and expensively). BMW used their ultimate lube to address these problems. The 2008 I own seems to work well with TWS.

The only problem with TWS is its $14.50 a quart price.

If only Advance Auto would stock it and include it in their $29.95 oil change deals.
_________________________
'04 Mazda RX8 5W30 NAPA Syn
'10 &'11 Camry Edge 0W-20
'11 Landcruiser 5W20 PU
'13 BMW 550IX BMW 5W30
'08 BMW Z4M Coupe TWS 10W60
'13 BMW M6 BMW 5W30

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#3260734 - 01/26/14 04:37 PM Re: The confusion around BMW M oils continues [Re: dparm]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 12503
Loc: Chicago, IL
$14.50? My dealer sells it for $12.
_________________________
2011.5 BMW M3 saloon ZCP
der stärkste buchstabe der welt
Castrol Edge Professional TWS 10w60 + Mahle OX 254D3

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