2008 Saab 9-3 Aero 2.8 L -M1 0w-40, 3,900 Miles

[Ayrton]

Saab 9-3 2.8 Turbo V6

My second report on this car I acquired in 2013. I'm glad sodium came down. I had been worried about coolant in oil, but at 10ppm, I think it's fine now.

Blackstone is alerting me to the low viscosity, low flashpoint, and trace of fuel (trace is more than their other reading that they call
The trace of fuel causes the low viscosity and low flashpoint, correct? This is NOT direct injected. What would cause the fuel in just 3,888 miles? I indeed do some short, low speed drives, cruising for fun around cities, but I do quite a bit of 150 mile highway jaunts too (maybe 2-3 times a month).

The previous owner got a bit lazy on maintenance towards the end, the last time I think the dealer used Mobil 1 5w-30 instead 0w-40 and he went 14,000 miles. I would HATE to have seen an UOA on that. There was one 13,000 before that too, probably on 5w-30. The first 30,000 miles was on the correct 0w-40 M1 Could there have been some kind of damage to the engine that causes the high fuel now?

After these initial couple cleaning oil changes, I was perhaps going to start using OLM (maxes at 10k or 1 year, looks like it would have went about 8,500 on my type of driving). However, with the fuel and low viscosity, I'm thinking I should stick to 50 percent OLM, 4,500 miles max or so.

Thoughts?

3,900 Miles on the Oil
75,200 on the engine

Aluminum - 3
Chromium - 0
Iron - 11
Copper - 5
Lead - 0
Tin - 0
Moly - 73
Nickel - 0
Manganese - 1
Silver - 0
Titanium - 0
Potassium - 1
Boron - 139
Silicon - 12
Sodium - 10
Calcium - 2889
Magnesium - 19
Phosphorus - 933
Zinc - 923

Viscosity @ 210F - 62.0
Viscosity @ 100C - 10.79
Flashpoint in F - 375
Fuel - Trace
Antifreeze - 0
Water - 0
Insolubles - 0.1

Thanks.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Ayrton
The trace of fuel causes the low viscosity and low flashpoint, correct?

In general, I'd say this is true. However, keep in mind Blackstone doesn't actually test for fuel content. They guesstimate it based on flashpoint...

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=85191

But seeing as the viscosity is low and the flashpoint is low, it is likely that fuel dilution was the culprit, regardless. The fuel may have subsequently burned off after you took the car on those longer drives, but the damage to the oil was done by then.

 

[Ayrton]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Ayrton
The trace of fuel causes the low viscosity and low flashpoint, correct?

In general, I'd say this is true. However, keep in mind Blackstone doesn't actually test for fuel content. They guesstimate it based on flashpoint...

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=85191

But seeing as the viscosity is low and the flashpoint is low, it is likely that fuel dilution was the culprit, regardless. The fuel may have subsequently burned off after you took the car on those longer drives, but the damage to the oil was done by then.



Thanks, yeah the viscosity seems almost wrong. I mean, I've had trace of fuel in other cars with this oil and it was still in the 12 range.

They said viscosity could have been due to the previous fill being a light oil (it was 5w-30 I think), but car needed the complete 6.3qt to reach full, so I got virtually all the old fill out (drain).

On the bright side, engine seems to run perfect, oh so smooth. Oh, and during the 3,900 miles it used absolutely zero oil.

 

[dparm]

Here's the thing: although the viscosity and flashpoint are low, the wear doesn't seem to be going up as a result. I don't think I would condemn this oil. A 4000 mile interval is probably sufficient.

Have you considered trying a different oil to see if it works better? Maybe Rotella T6 5w40, PU 5w40, or even Renewable Lube 5w40?

 

[Ayrton]

dparm

Thanks. I agree the wear is ok. dmk has several analysis on here of 2006 & 2009 cars with the same engine. They were 0w-40 M1 with as many as 12,000 miles and look quite good.

I don't think this engine would normally zap the viscosity like in my analysis.

I wasn't going to do a UOA on my current fill (in engine now). However, I will run it to 4000 or 4500 miles and analyze. If it is still showing dramatically low viscosity, I will consider another oil. Good idea, this was simply one of the original factory approved products and I know the product well, so it was a natural choice.

I can't imagine how the car did with the 5w-30 M1 for 14,000 miles (some dealers switched to this and other oils when GM claimed dexos1 replaced the better long life opel/saab spec). I wonder how much damage occurred? I suppose that drivers habits might have been different and helped.

Well, engine does run nice, so not too worried, but viscosity surprised me.

 

[dparm]

M1 5w30 is a very stout oil and actually carries HTO-06, Honda's turbocharged engine certification.

 

[CATERHAM]

Ayrton I wouldn't fixate too much on the kinematic viscosity drop as the corresponding loss in HTHSV is at about half that rate, so it's still a pretty heavy oil, heavier than a virgin 5W-30 like M1.
I'd stick with M1 0W-40 and wouldn't use anything heavier without installing an oil pressure gauge first. In all likelihood, unless your seeing extremely high oil temp's even a synthetic 5W-30 is satisfying the viscosity requirements of your engine.

I would think an 8,500 mile OCI would be fine on this oil, although you may want to order a TBN and TAN on your next lengthy OCI to be sure.

 

[Ayrton]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Ayrton I wouldn't fixate too much on the kinematic viscosity drop as the corresponding loss in HTHSV is at about half that rate, so it's still a pretty heavy oil, heavier than a virgin 5W-30 like M1.
I'd stick with M1 0W-40 and wouldn't use anything heavier without installing an oil pressure gauge first. In all likelihood, unless your seeing extremely high oil temp's even a synthetic 5W-30 is satisfying the viscosity requirements of your engine.

I would think an 8,500 mile OCI would be fine on this oil, although you may want to order a TBN and TAN on your next lengthy OCI to be sure.



Many thanks Sir! Makes perfect sense!

I won't worry. I would have preferred not to see such an unusual viscosity cut in only 3,900 miles, but as you say it is still heavier than a 30 weight. This oil was put in during summer while ambient isn't extreme, this engine does make INTENSE heat. Indeed, it's known to crack the coolant overflow tank every couple years, hoses, fluid caps, etc. in the engine compartment. The heat is insane from engine (actually from turbo and turbo heat shield), but that doesn't mean the oil is getting unusually hot I suppose. We can see with UOAs if they always look better in the winer compared to summer.

I probably won't push it out to 8,500 (approx. OLM), but you're right, with a TBN & TAN, it should be possible. I didn't bother with a TBN this time as it was only the 3,900 miles.

I feel better about it today. Honestly, I was never stressed, just found it interesting. In a way, it's nice having something to figure out from your analysis!

Appreciate that everyone sorted it out and looked at it for me. Thank you!

 

[dmk]

I wouldn't worry at all about and you should certainly be able to do longer OCI's. Ironically I just had mine changed out yesterday at 11,000 mi. but didn't have a oil sample container for it :-(
The longer OCI's of the previous owner I'm sure are fine but concerning they went that long. Manual says 1 year/10,000 mi. and the OLM system would only go that far too.
At least dino oil wasn't used.

Go for a longer OCI next time and for sure do a TBN.