Just tech line nonsense. They haven't heard of the QS Defy with elevated zddp they also sell?
Run your T6 with confidence.
Run your T6 with confidence.
Rotella T6 5w-40 in a Gas engine
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I would just go with 0w40 Mobil 1.
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
I think you should stay with an oil that is primarily formulated for gasoline engines. Rotella is rated CJ4/SM, which means it is primarily a diesel oil that can also be used in a gasoline engine. Shell markets it primarily as a heavy-duty diesel oil and says it is good for mixed fleet applications. Rotella's additive package contains a lot of magnesium-based detergents which are typically not recommended for gasoline engines.
How do you explain the latest Mobil and Castrol ILSAC GF-5 additive packages which have substantial magnesium content? Methinks there's more than one magnesium additive compound and that while one is ill-advised for gasoline engines, others are not.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
The way I see it, it either meets API SM or it doesn't. Since it does and if your car calls for it, then I don't see a problem.
I agree and so do hundreds of Subarus run to six figure mileages on RT6.
While Shell's tech line can't technically recommend it for a car that specifies an ILSAC GF4+ oil in the manual, the zinc and phosphorous content is not that high, it's in line with ILSAC GF-3/API SL levels, the same as Mobil 1 High Mileage. Yes, you'll poison your catcon a little faster if you burn oil, but that's a small price to pay if your engine really needs HTHS of 3.7+. Whether or not the engine needs 5w40 is an entirely different matter.
I think you should stay with an oil that is primarily formulated for gasoline engines. Rotella is rated CJ4/SM, which means it is primarily a diesel oil that can also be used in a gasoline engine. Shell markets it primarily as a heavy-duty diesel oil and says it is good for mixed fleet applications. Rotella's additive package contains a lot of magnesium-based detergents which are typically not recommended for gasoline engines.
How do you explain the latest Mobil and Castrol ILSAC GF-5 additive packages which have substantial magnesium content? Methinks there's more than one magnesium additive compound and that while one is ill-advised for gasoline engines, others are not.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
The way I see it, it either meets API SM or it doesn't. Since it does and if your car calls for it, then I don't see a problem.
I agree and so do hundreds of Subarus run to six figure mileages on RT6.
While Shell's tech line can't technically recommend it for a car that specifies an ILSAC GF4+ oil in the manual, the zinc and phosphorous content is not that high, it's in line with ILSAC GF-3/API SL levels, the same as Mobil 1 High Mileage. Yes, you'll poison your catcon a little faster if you burn oil, but that's a small price to pay if your engine really needs HTHS of 3.7+. Whether or not the engine needs 5w40 is an entirely different matter.
T6 is not for gas engines that have cat converters. This comes direct from Rotellas tech folks. I have e-mails from them dated today that confirm this. It has too much phosphorous in it for catalytic converters. The new ILSEC standards want to see Phosphorous reduced to extend cat longevity and Rotella doesn't meet those standards, I think by choice. Bottom line: Rotella T6 in a gas engine with a cat converter is NOT recommended by Rotella.
The SM rating has nothing to do with cat converters. It's the ILSEC standards that require phosphorous levels to be below 800 ppm that is an attempt to extend cat converter life and Rotella does not meet this standard (I think by choice as they keep their P levels at about 1100 ppm or so. I received an email today from their tech dept in response to my same question concerning T6 use in gas engines and they stated that no Rotella oils are recommended for use in gas engines with cat converters. Here is their exact response:
"Dear Sir,
You should always follow the viscosity recommendations in your owner's manual. Please note that Rotella oils are not recommended for gasoline vehicles with catalytic converters.
Best Regards,
Shell Technical"
Bottom line: there are a lot of users infatuated with Rotella T6 but even Rotella says they do not recommend using it in gas engines with catalytic converters........so why are we using it for that same purpose when Rotella recommends against it for this same purpose......???
"Dear Sir,
You should always follow the viscosity recommendations in your owner's manual. Please note that Rotella oils are not recommended for gasoline vehicles with catalytic converters.
Best Regards,
Shell Technical"
Bottom line: there are a lot of users infatuated with Rotella T6 but even Rotella says they do not recommend using it in gas engines with catalytic converters........so why are we using it for that same purpose when Rotella recommends against it for this same purpose......???
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I've read here that diesel rated oils/HDEO's can be abrasive to gasoline engines due to the detergents needed in diesels.
Originally Posted By: TrackerTracker
The SM rating has nothing to do with cat converters. It's the ILSEC standards that require phosphorous levels to be below 800 ppm that is an attempt to extend cat converter life and Rotella does not meet this standard (I think by choice as they keep their P levels at about 1100 ppm or so. I received an email today from their tech dept in response to my same question concerning T6 use in gas engines and they stated that no Rotella oils are recommended for use in gas engines with cat converters. Here is their exact response:
"Dear Sir,
You should always follow the viscosity recommendations in your owner's manual. Please note that Rotella oils are not recommended for gasoline vehicles with catalytic converters.
Best Regards,
Shell Technical"
Bottom line: there are a lot of users infatuated with Rotella T6 but even Rotella says they do not recommend using it in gas engines with catalytic converters........so why are we using it for that same purpose when Rotella recommends against it for this same purpose......???
Its only harmful for cats if your car BURNS oil.
If not, you shouldn't have anything to worry about. Plus if you know how little those people on the tech line know, you wouldn't believe anything they say. Also, recommended does not mean you can't use it. Its SM rated, use it with confidence. SM is a gasoline engine specification and it meets those requirements so don't over think this issue.
SM reduced the P levels to 800 max. Most of those limits don't apply to 40w oils. That's why Defy 10w40 can be SN while all the other weights are SL.
The SM rating has nothing to do with cat converters. It's the ILSEC standards that require phosphorous levels to be below 800 ppm that is an attempt to extend cat converter life and Rotella does not meet this standard (I think by choice as they keep their P levels at about 1100 ppm or so. I received an email today from their tech dept in response to my same question concerning T6 use in gas engines and they stated that no Rotella oils are recommended for use in gas engines with cat converters. Here is their exact response:
"Dear Sir,
You should always follow the viscosity recommendations in your owner's manual. Please note that Rotella oils are not recommended for gasoline vehicles with catalytic converters.
Best Regards,
Shell Technical"
Bottom line: there are a lot of users infatuated with Rotella T6 but even Rotella says they do not recommend using it in gas engines with catalytic converters........so why are we using it for that same purpose when Rotella recommends against it for this same purpose......???
Its only harmful for cats if your car BURNS oil.
If not, you shouldn't have anything to worry about. Plus if you know how little those people on the tech line know, you wouldn't believe anything they say. Also, recommended does not mean you can't use it. Its SM rated, use it with confidence. SM is a gasoline engine specification and it meets those requirements so don't over think this issue.
SM reduced the P levels to 800 max. Most of those limits don't apply to 40w oils. That's why Defy 10w40 can be SN while all the other weights are SL.
The original post was almost 2 years ago...
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Originally Posted By: volk06
Its only harmful for cats if your car BURNS oil.
If not, you shouldn't have anything to worry about. Plus if you know how little those people on the tech line know, you wouldn't believe anything they say. Also, recommended does not mean you can't use it. Its SM rated, use it with confidence. SM is a gasoline engine specification and it meets those requirements so don't over think this issue.
SM reduced the P levels to 800 max. Most of those limits don't apply to 40w oils. That's why Defy 10w40 can be SN while all the other weights are SL.
I believe that it's the ILSAC requirements that require Phosphorous levels to be 800 ppm or lower (to extend cat life), not the SM requirements and Rotella does not meet the ILSEC requirement because their P levels are about 1100 ppm Phosphorous. I have all this in their email to me. So the quandary is this: what to do when the manufacturer themselves says NONE of their oils are recommended for use in gas engines with cat converters. NONE!
I do agree with you on the burning issue and I posted it myself about an hour ago: you might be safe if you don't burn oil because that's the main mechanism to get Phosphorous into the cat converter and if you do burn oil, even having a low P level oil (800 ppm) might not even save your cat converter due to oil contamination in general.
That said, I too have a dilemma: my BMW I bought used, came with (insert drum roll) Rotella T6 oil so I too have to decide what to do.......
Has it been in there long enough to have already killed the cat in which case I just continue using it or do I replace it with something better to preserve the cat? Before I can decide I would need to know what happens when a cat dies: does it plug up and need replacing at $1,000 a pop or does it just cease to produce clean air yet doesn't interfere with car operation? Any thoughts on this or the above post in general??
Its only harmful for cats if your car BURNS oil.
If not, you shouldn't have anything to worry about. Plus if you know how little those people on the tech line know, you wouldn't believe anything they say. Also, recommended does not mean you can't use it. Its SM rated, use it with confidence. SM is a gasoline engine specification and it meets those requirements so don't over think this issue.
SM reduced the P levels to 800 max. Most of those limits don't apply to 40w oils. That's why Defy 10w40 can be SN while all the other weights are SL.
I believe that it's the ILSAC requirements that require Phosphorous levels to be 800 ppm or lower (to extend cat life), not the SM requirements and Rotella does not meet the ILSEC requirement because their P levels are about 1100 ppm Phosphorous. I have all this in their email to me. So the quandary is this: what to do when the manufacturer themselves says NONE of their oils are recommended for use in gas engines with cat converters. NONE!
I do agree with you on the burning issue and I posted it myself about an hour ago: you might be safe if you don't burn oil because that's the main mechanism to get Phosphorous into the cat converter and if you do burn oil, even having a low P level oil (800 ppm) might not even save your cat converter due to oil contamination in general.
That said, I too have a dilemma: my BMW I bought used, came with (insert drum roll) Rotella T6 oil so I too have to decide what to do.......
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Are you going to dig up all the old Rotella posts and dispute them?
Originally Posted By: TrackerTracker
I rained on my own parade too....the BMW I bought has T6 in it right now.....
so I too have to decide what to do.......
I bet your BMW doesn't insist on an ILSAC rated oil, though. As per the other thread in which you posted in the diesel section, if Shell doesn't want you using Rotella in a gasser, go to Delvac 1. XOM has no problems with you using that oil in a gasoline engine, particularly if it meets the required specifications; they even endorse it for high performance gasoline engines.
I rained on my own parade too....the BMW I bought has T6 in it right now.....
I bet your BMW doesn't insist on an ILSAC rated oil, though. As per the other thread in which you posted in the diesel section, if Shell doesn't want you using Rotella in a gasser, go to Delvac 1. XOM has no problems with you using that oil in a gasoline engine, particularly if it meets the required specifications; they even endorse it for high performance gasoline engines.
Second random Rotella T6 thread resurrection for the day...
Originally Posted By: TrackerTracker
Hate to rain on everyones parade but Rotella T6 is not recommended by Shell for gas engines with catalytic converters. I e-mailed their tech dept today and here is their quote:
"Dear Sir,
You should always follow the viscosity recommendations in your owner's manual. Please note that Rotella oils are not recommended for gasoline vehicles with catalytic converters.
Best Regards,
Shell Technical"
I then asked them how this can be since T6 is API SM rated for gas engines. Here's what they said:
"The API SM specification does not address the use of catalytic converters. The ILSAC GF-4 / GF-5 specifications restrict the use of certain anti-wear additive systems. These can shorten the life of the converter as the car ages and begins to use oil. Because of the higher levels of the ZDDP additives in Rotella oils, they do not meet the ILSAC specifications and cannot be recommended for use in vehicles with catalytic converters.
Regards,
Shell Technical"
My put on all this: that while T6 meets SM requirements, it does so with no reference to also being cat safe. To improve cat life, some ILSAC ratings required manufacturers to lower Phosphorus levels to about 800 ppm or lower because high Phosphorus levels kill cat converters. Since the Phosphorus is contained in ZDDP, meeting this requirement would necessitate Rotella lowering their Phosphorus levels from current levels of about 1100 ppm to 800 ppm or less. Rotella chose not to lower Phosphorous to the required 800 ppm level because higher levels have other benefits to diesel engines, and diesel owners are their main customers. This means T6 does not meet these lower Phosphorus levels and that there are other oils out there that do and these are better for cat longevity.
So...there ya go....it is a great oil but NOT for gas engines with cat converters.
There is one saving grace I can think of: the Phosphorus has to get by the rings to get into the cat converter. If you are not burning oil it MIGHT be ok but I wouldn't risk it. Then again, if you are burning oil of any kind that too can kill a catalytic converter and it doesn't have to be a high Phosphorus level to do it......
So...what are all you gas engine folks who use Rotella T6 going to do? Thoughts??
PS. I rained on my own parade too....the BMW I bought has T6 in it right now.....
so I too have to decide what to do.......
Ever heard of Mobi1 1 0W-40 being run in a BMW? Check out the zinc and phosphorus levels and see if they do not match Rotella T6? I do understand tilting with windmills is common on the web.
Hate to rain on everyones parade but Rotella T6 is not recommended by Shell for gas engines with catalytic converters. I e-mailed their tech dept today and here is their quote:
"Dear Sir,
You should always follow the viscosity recommendations in your owner's manual. Please note that Rotella oils are not recommended for gasoline vehicles with catalytic converters.
Best Regards,
Shell Technical"
I then asked them how this can be since T6 is API SM rated for gas engines. Here's what they said:
"The API SM specification does not address the use of catalytic converters. The ILSAC GF-4 / GF-5 specifications restrict the use of certain anti-wear additive systems. These can shorten the life of the converter as the car ages and begins to use oil. Because of the higher levels of the ZDDP additives in Rotella oils, they do not meet the ILSAC specifications and cannot be recommended for use in vehicles with catalytic converters.
Regards,
Shell Technical"
My put on all this: that while T6 meets SM requirements, it does so with no reference to also being cat safe. To improve cat life, some ILSAC ratings required manufacturers to lower Phosphorus levels to about 800 ppm or lower because high Phosphorus levels kill cat converters. Since the Phosphorus is contained in ZDDP, meeting this requirement would necessitate Rotella lowering their Phosphorus levels from current levels of about 1100 ppm to 800 ppm or less. Rotella chose not to lower Phosphorous to the required 800 ppm level because higher levels have other benefits to diesel engines, and diesel owners are their main customers. This means T6 does not meet these lower Phosphorus levels and that there are other oils out there that do and these are better for cat longevity.
So...there ya go....it is a great oil but NOT for gas engines with cat converters.
There is one saving grace I can think of: the Phosphorus has to get by the rings to get into the cat converter. If you are not burning oil it MIGHT be ok but I wouldn't risk it. Then again, if you are burning oil of any kind that too can kill a catalytic converter and it doesn't have to be a high Phosphorus level to do it......
So...what are all you gas engine folks who use Rotella T6 going to do? Thoughts??
PS. I rained on my own parade too....the BMW I bought has T6 in it right now.....
Ever heard of Mobi1 1 0W-40 being run in a BMW? Check out the zinc and phosphorus levels and see if they do not match Rotella T6? I do understand tilting with windmills is common on the web.
T6 is fine for that, too. Of course, Shell isn't going to advocate using it in SN/GF-5 applications. For one, it isn't so certified. Secondly, they have plenty of oils that are so certified.
Originally Posted By: GaleHawkins
Ever heard of Mobi1 1 0W-40 being run in a BMW? Check out the zinc and phosphorus levels and see if they do not match Rotella T6? I do understand tilting with windmills is common on the web.
Ever heard of "new information" and "manufacturers recommendations for their own products"????
Yes...the Mobil 1 chart shows 0w40 with 1000 ppm P and 1100 ppm Zn, both of which are lower than Rotella T6 at 1100 ppm P and about 1400 ppm Zn and yes Mobil 1 0w40 is recommended for many European cars but that is Mobil 1's recommendation based on their knowledge of their entire additive package and P and Zn levels. You seem to have no problem accepting their recommendation. You should also then have no problem accepting Rotellas recommendation for their own oil which is also based on their unique knowledge of their own additive package and P and Zn levels and that recommendation is that NO Rotella oils are recommended for use in gas cars with cat converters.
{removed political comments} you are entitled to your own opinion but you are not entitled to your own set of facts. Same here.
Ever heard of Mobi1 1 0W-40 being run in a BMW? Check out the zinc and phosphorus levels and see if they do not match Rotella T6? I do understand tilting with windmills is common on the web.
Ever heard of "new information" and "manufacturers recommendations for their own products"????
Yes...the Mobil 1 chart shows 0w40 with 1000 ppm P and 1100 ppm Zn, both of which are lower than Rotella T6 at 1100 ppm P and about 1400 ppm Zn and yes Mobil 1 0w40 is recommended for many European cars but that is Mobil 1's recommendation based on their knowledge of their entire additive package and P and Zn levels. You seem to have no problem accepting their recommendation. You should also then have no problem accepting Rotellas recommendation for their own oil which is also based on their unique knowledge of their own additive package and P and Zn levels and that recommendation is that NO Rotella oils are recommended for use in gas cars with cat converters.
{removed political comments} you are entitled to your own opinion but you are not entitled to your own set of facts. Same here.
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Originally Posted By: Steve S
The Rotella believe it or not is not a diesel oil it is a H.D.E.O." heavy duty engine oil". It is suitable for use in the most demanding operation of diesel and gasoline engines considering the proper viscosity for your application.
Rotella says it is NOT recommended for gas engines with cat converters. For diesels, yes. For gas, no.
The Rotella believe it or not is not a diesel oil it is a H.D.E.O." heavy duty engine oil". It is suitable for use in the most demanding operation of diesel and gasoline engines considering the proper viscosity for your application.
Rotella says it is NOT recommended for gas engines with cat converters. For diesels, yes. For gas, no.
Originally Posted By: steve20
why does this question come up ever day?
Do we have a forum with "seeded" questions?
Hi Steve. Just like the sun rises each day, so too will this Rotella question for use in gas engines keep coming back. It happens because people are infatuated with the words "Rotella T6" and are in denial about what the manufacturer says of its own oil...that NO Rotella oils are recommended for use in gas engines with cat converters. It's the same reason we elected a moron into the White House... twice.... even though we knew he was a proclaimed Marxist...because people ignore "facts" that are "inconvenient" to them. In this case they are so mentally attached to the word "Rotella" that they can't ever let it go, even though it's not recommended for their car. I'm sure there are good "oil therapists" and "oil rehab centers" out there who can help folks to "let go".....LOL
why does this question come up ever day?
Do we have a forum with "seeded" questions?
Hi Steve. Just like the sun rises each day, so too will this Rotella question for use in gas engines keep coming back. It happens because people are infatuated with the words "Rotella T6" and are in denial about what the manufacturer says of its own oil...that NO Rotella oils are recommended for use in gas engines with cat converters. It's the same reason we elected a moron into the White House... twice.... even though we knew he was a proclaimed Marxist...because people ignore "facts" that are "inconvenient" to them. In this case they are so mentally attached to the word "Rotella" that they can't ever let it go, even though it's not recommended for their car. I'm sure there are good "oil therapists" and "oil rehab centers" out there who can help folks to "let go".....LOL
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Originally Posted By: TrackerTracker
Hi Steve. Just like the sun rises each day, so too will this Rotella question for use in gas engines keep coming back.
Why are you responding to people who posted in this thread over two years ago, yet ignoring the ones who have disputed your assertions right here and now? I'm going to give you a couple pieces of advice. They're free, so do with them what you will.
First, BITOG isn't populated by idiots. Your concerns about Rotella in a gas engine have been hashed over here dozens of times already. You're not speaking to a bunch of people who know nothing about oil. So, before you tell us how bad Rotella is for a gas engine, including your BMW which, I guarantee, recommended 15w-40 as the primary grade, do some reading and see how many people have run such oils in out of warranty vehicles (and some during warranty) without negative side effects. Your cat in your BMW will die. It's not because of the Rotella. It's because the car is ancient.
Secondly, you seem to want to bring up politics in your posts. That's contrary to the rules. If you wish to continue participating here, refrain from the political jibberish or someone with a blue username will ensure that you do by giving you a vacation.
Hi Steve. Just like the sun rises each day, so too will this Rotella question for use in gas engines keep coming back.
Why are you responding to people who posted in this thread over two years ago, yet ignoring the ones who have disputed your assertions right here and now? I'm going to give you a couple pieces of advice. They're free, so do with them what you will.
First, BITOG isn't populated by idiots. Your concerns about Rotella in a gas engine have been hashed over here dozens of times already. You're not speaking to a bunch of people who know nothing about oil. So, before you tell us how bad Rotella is for a gas engine, including your BMW which, I guarantee, recommended 15w-40 as the primary grade, do some reading and see how many people have run such oils in out of warranty vehicles (and some during warranty) without negative side effects. Your cat in your BMW will die. It's not because of the Rotella. It's because the car is ancient.
Secondly, you seem to want to bring up politics in your posts. That's contrary to the rules. If you wish to continue participating here, refrain from the political jibberish or someone with a blue username will ensure that you do by giving you a vacation.
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