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#3254456 - 01/20/14 08:58 PM Re: Tdi gelatinous sludge [Re: Chugchug]
SilverC6 Offline


Registered: 10/03/08
Posts: 1471
Loc: Southeast
Clearly neglected.

Guess you will be running straight MMO for a couple of changes......
_________________________
'04 Mazda RX8 5W30 NAPA Syn
'10 &'11 Camry Edge 0W-20
'11 Landcruiser 5W20 PU
'13 BMW 550IX BMW 5W30
'08 BMW Z4M Coupe TWS 10W60
'13 BMW M6 BMW 5W30

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#3254574 - 01/20/14 10:40 PM Re: Tdi gelatinous sludge [Re: Chugchug]
Chugchug Offline


Registered: 01/18/14
Posts: 4
Loc: Colorado
straight mmo? $6,000,000 rebuild? spark ignition turbodiesel?

Keep em rollin,


Matt

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#3254603 - 01/20/14 11:31 PM Re: Tdi gelatinous sludge [Re: Chugchug]
TrevorS Offline


Registered: 07/14/13
Posts: 1281
Loc: California
On BITOG you have to learn to sift through the bad to get to the good.

In this case, you got a response from Doug Hillary. That is as good as it gets.

Out of all the Euro engines that all need Euro oils, a turbo diesel is going to be the most at risk without a Euro oil.

Even normally aspirated gasoline Euro engines get sludge with non approved oils.

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#3254770 - 01/21/14 08:02 AM Re: Tdi gelatinous sludge [Re: TrevorS]
Jim Allen Offline


Registered: 08/12/05
Posts: 4477
Loc: NW Ohio
Originally Posted By: TrevorS
On BITOG you have to learn to sift through the bad to get to the good.

In this case, you got a response from Doug Hillary. That is as good as it gets.

Out of all the Euro engines that all need Euro oils, a turbo diesel is going to be the most at risk without a Euro oil.

Even normally aspirated gasoline Euro engines get sludge with non approved oils.


Well said!
_________________________
Jim Allen
Keepin' the Good Old Days of Four Wheeling Alive

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#3254854 - 01/21/14 09:24 AM Re: Tdi gelatinous sludge [Re: Chugchug]
bigjl Offline


Registered: 09/06/12
Posts: 1704
Loc: London, England
Originally Posted By: Chugchug
straight mmo? $6,000,000 rebuild? spark ignition turbodiesel?

Keep em rollin,


Matt


The person that posted about the spark ignition turbo diesel still hasn't answered my question about it.

Other than to possibly try and infer that i said it.

Lol.
_________________________
06 Clio1.5DCi,131k 6kOCI Shell Extra 5w40
08 Pathfinder 2.5 Dci Sold with 125k
12 Jaguar XJL 3.0 D Luxury 108k 8kOCI Mob 1 ESP 5w30

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#3255019 - 01/21/14 12:12 PM Re: Tdi gelatinous sludge [Re: TrevorS]
k1rod Offline


Registered: 12/17/06
Posts: 265
Loc: Arizona
Originally Posted By: TrevorS

Out of all the Euro engines that all need Euro oils, a turbo diesel is going to be the most at risk without a Euro oil.

Even normally aspirated gasoline Euro engines get sludge with non approved oils.


That depends on which engine. The ALH engine that is in the OP's vehicle does not need a Euro oil. It will run fine off of Mobil 1 TDT, Mobil Delvac 1, Shell Rotella T6, Several of Amsoil's offerings and probably a bunch more. It wasn't until 2004.5 when VW tdi's began being produced with BEW (Pump Deuce) engines that these cars started becoming oil fussy. Much of these problems were related to a significant reduction in surface area of the cam lobes necessitating very high film strength oils.

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#3255192 - 01/21/14 02:27 PM Re: Tdi gelatinous sludge [Re: Chugchug]
TrevorS Offline


Registered: 07/14/13
Posts: 1281
Loc: California
^ Great info! Thanks!

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#3255226 - 01/21/14 02:59 PM Re: Tdi gelatinous sludge [Re: bigjl]
yonyon Offline


Registered: 03/06/12
Posts: 3492
Loc: NJ, USA
Originally Posted By: bigjl

Other than to possibly try and infer that i said it.


Sorry about that. I have a bad habit of making bad jokes that are so bad you can't tell they're meant to be funny.

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#3255328 - 01/21/14 04:58 PM Re: Tdi gelatinous sludge [Re: k1rod]
bigjl Offline


Registered: 09/06/12
Posts: 1704
Loc: London, England
Originally Posted By: k1rod
Originally Posted By: TrevorS

Out of all the Euro engines that all need Euro oils, a turbo diesel is going to be the most at risk without a Euro oil.

Even normally aspirated gasoline Euro engines get sludge with non approved oils.


That depends on which engine. The ALH engine that is in the OP's vehicle does not need a Euro oil. It will run fine off of Mobil 1 TDT, Mobil Delvac 1, Shell Rotella T6, Several of Amsoil's offerings and probably a bunch more. It wasn't until 2004.5 when VW tdi's began being produced with BEW (Pump Deuce) engines that these cars started becoming oil fussy. Much of these problems were related to a significant reduction in surface area of the cam lobes necessitating very high film strength oils.


VAG produced PD engine earlier than 2004. A friend on mine had a Ford Galaxy, built in a joint venture with VW and Seat, back in 02 and i am fairly certain they started making the PD engines in 01.
_________________________
06 Clio1.5DCi,131k 6kOCI Shell Extra 5w40
08 Pathfinder 2.5 Dci Sold with 125k
12 Jaguar XJL 3.0 D Luxury 108k 8kOCI Mob 1 ESP 5w30

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#3255411 - 01/21/14 06:06 PM Re: Tdi gelatinous sludge [Re: SilverC6]
SilverC6 Offline


Registered: 10/03/08
Posts: 1471
Loc: Southeast
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Clearly neglected.

Guess you will be running straight MMO for a couple of changes......



Meant as a jokey joke.

With a mess like that you either have to laugh or cry......
_________________________
'04 Mazda RX8 5W30 NAPA Syn
'10 &'11 Camry Edge 0W-20
'11 Landcruiser 5W20 PU
'13 BMW 550IX BMW 5W30
'08 BMW Z4M Coupe TWS 10W60
'13 BMW M6 BMW 5W30

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#3255526 - 01/21/14 07:07 PM Re: Tdi gelatinous sludge [Re: bigjl]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 11606
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: bigjl
The person that posted about the spark ignition turbo diesel still hasn't answered my question about it.

I'll take a minor stab at it. I actually had read a reference to spark ignition diesel in Popular Mechanics or Car & Driver some time ago. There wasn't much about it, and I have no idea who was puttering around with it, but the notion was that they could reduce compression ratios and affect emissions that way. Other than that, your guess is as good as mine.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Hastings LF113
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

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#3256241 - 01/22/14 12:47 PM Re: Tdi gelatinous sludge [Re: bigjl]
k1rod Offline


Registered: 12/17/06
Posts: 265
Loc: Arizona
Originally Posted By: bigjl
Originally Posted By: k1rod
Originally Posted By: TrevorS

Out of all the Euro engines that all need Euro oils, a turbo diesel is going to be the most at risk without a Euro oil.

Even normally aspirated gasoline Euro engines get sludge with non approved oils.


That depends on which engine. The ALH engine that is in the OP's vehicle does not need a Euro oil. It will run fine off of Mobil 1 TDT, Mobil Delvac 1, Shell Rotella T6, Several of Amsoil's offerings and probably a bunch more. It wasn't until 2004.5 when VW tdi's began being produced with BEW (Pump Deuce) engines that these cars started becoming oil fussy. Much of these problems were related to a significant reduction in surface area of the cam lobes necessitating very high film strength oils.


VAG produced PD engine earlier than 2004. A friend on mine had a Ford Galaxy, built in a joint venture with VW and Seat, back in 02 and i am fairly certain they started making the PD engines in 01.


VAG probably did produce the PD engines earlier than 2004. But they weren't available here in North America until the 2004 model year.

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#3256369 - 01/22/14 02:27 PM Re: Tdi gelatinous sludge [Re: Chugchug]
bigjl Offline


Registered: 09/06/12
Posts: 1704
Loc: London, England
That is why i find it strange that the issue with specific PD oils even occurred in NA

As the cam wear problems and need for PD specific oils was already a known issue in Europe.

Many European oil manufacturers labelled products as PD oils.
_________________________
06 Clio1.5DCi,131k 6kOCI Shell Extra 5w40
08 Pathfinder 2.5 Dci Sold with 125k
12 Jaguar XJL 3.0 D Luxury 108k 8kOCI Mob 1 ESP 5w30

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#3256474 - 01/22/14 03:54 PM Re: Tdi gelatinous sludge [Re: bigjl]
k1rod Offline


Registered: 12/17/06
Posts: 265
Loc: Arizona
Originally Posted By: bigjl
That is why i find it strange that the issue with specific PD oils even occurred in NA

As the cam wear problems and need for PD specific oils was already a known issue in Europe.

Many European oil manufacturers labelled products as PD oils.


I think the problem here was multifaceted. When the PD engine was introduced to the NA market, the supply chain for PD specific oils was pretty thin. Because it was so thin, these oils were very expensive (at least for the NA market) and somewhat difficult to find. Secondly, despite all the experience in the Euro market, the cam problem was not well understood here. And finally, the previous ALH 505.00 oil spec could be, and often was ignored and high quality but non spec oils were used in their place...successfully. This lead many people (VW dealerships included) to incorrectly conclude that the 505.01 spec could be ignored as well. Eventually most people figured it out but not before thousands of cam lobes ended up as a powder in the oil pan.

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#3256567 - 01/22/14 05:55 PM Re: Tdi gelatinous sludge [Re: k1rod]
scurvy Offline


Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 2274
Loc: Chicago IL USA
Originally Posted By: k1rod
The ALH engine that is in the OP's vehicle does not need a Euro oil. It will run fine off of Mobil 1 TDT, Mobil Delvac 1, Shell Rotella T6, Several of Amsoil's offerings and probably a bunch more. It wasn't until 2004.5 when VW tdi's began being produced with BEW (Pump Deuce) engines that these cars started becoming oil fussy. Much of these problems were related to a significant reduction in surface area of the cam lobes necessitating very high film strength oils.


All the North American Pumpe-Deuse engines (BEW, BHW, BRM) run beautifully long lives on all the oils you listed above, and I would add Schaefer 9000 to that list since we're naming brands. It's only when the owners start running VW-spec 5w30 507.00 oils that they munch up their camshafts, lifters & cam bearings.
_________________________
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06 VW Golf TDI - M1/Delvac 1300 7.5w40ish, HU726/2x, EaBP90
12 Mazda 5 - M1 0W20, FL910S

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