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#3254391 - 01/20/14 07:52 PM best warm up patern in winther.
shDK Offline


Registered: 04/03/13
Posts: 548
Loc: Denmark
Hi all.

I am gonna share a discussion with you all that,s bin up here during the winther. Should you let your engine warm up a bit before driving?perhaps the time it takes to scrape off ice from the Windows. Or remove ice first and then just start and go?

The side on the start and drive made the following points.

1. The catalyst converter don,t work till the engine is warm and therefore will pollute more.

2. The engine doesn't warm up at idle but has to work before getting warm.

3. You will delute your engine oil with petrol due to blowby(or undercompression as it,s called here). And incomplete burning(don,t know how else to translate it)

4. Many modern engines has a pretty low oilpressure at idle, to reduce internal mechanical drag. And therefore. The wear is bigger.

The side that,s for letting the engine idle while scraping of ice.

1 the engine will mostly need between 15-20 sec before being fully lubricated(Probertly mostly with older thicker types of oil and engines.

2. The idle at cold start is often pretty high. An example is my Mazda that idles at 2000 rpm at cold start. Therefore it incomplete burning ain,t that big a problem.

3. In favor of safety it is best if the car is free of any moist of the Windows before ddriving. It is hard when you do the start and go way.

So. What do all the experts here say? This winther has bin really mild. But a normal whinther we will have night temps down to -15--20 celcius..

I apologize if my spelling is bad. I am sitting up at night, becouse I have the pneumonia. On both lungs. So now at is tea and rum time:-)

Have a nice day.
Søren



Edited by shDK (01/20/14 07:54 PM)

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#3254399 - 01/20/14 08:02 PM Re: best warm up patern in winther. [Re: shDK]
Donald Offline


Registered: 03/21/04
Posts: 13637
Loc: Upstate NY
I do not see a need for a long warm up, but warming up the car while one scrapes ice off the windows seems reasonable. But if its cold and no ice, then as soon as I see oil pressure in my gauge I will drive off.

Now if its below 5F my Jeep makes some odd engine noises, so I wait until the engine sounds normal (which might be a minute or two) then drive off.

And then there are the days I use the remote starter because I do not want to be cold.
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#3254403 - 01/20/14 08:06 PM Re: best warm up patern in winther. [Re: shDK]
Danno Offline


Registered: 10/07/12
Posts: 833
Loc: Northern Ontario, Canada
Hey shDK - Get better soon. You are warm this winter, we are cold, expecting -30C tonight without wind chill -42C with wind chill. Using 0W-20 M1 in the 3 cars parked outside. 2 cars parked inside get 5W-20/30 (warranty required)

I like your second option the best.

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#3254444 - 01/20/14 08:48 PM Re: best warm up patern in winther. [Re: shDK]
eljefino Online   content


Registered: 06/15/03
Posts: 24363
Loc: ME
This keeps coming up. There are lots of threads from a couple weeks ago during the "Polar Vortex" on this very subject.

I nod to safety, particularly fogging up windows. So I idle, destructive as it may be. My goal is to counteract this with better maintenance, and not eliminate it. I own my car; it doesn't own me.

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#3254449 - 01/20/14 08:52 PM Re: best warm up patern in winther. [Re: shDK]
KB2008X Offline


Registered: 06/21/12
Posts: 509
Loc: St. Louis, MO.
My rule is that I'll wait five to 10 seconds in the summer and then drive. That works well until the freezing point and then I'll add another 5 seconds, when it gets near 0 Fahrenheit I'll wait maybe 30 seconds. Waiting longer really serves no purpose. There is nothing wrong with waiting longer for whatever reason, you may not gain much, but there is no harm.

The thing to keep in mind is that it's not only the engine that needs to have oil circulated throughout before driving off, regardless of temperature, but the transmission, power steering, drive axle, etc. The colder it is the longer it takes for fluids to circulate. So, once you're rolling, go easy for a few miles and then let it rip.

As for making allowances for "incomplete burning", or letting the converter warm up or pollution, don't worry about that. If you're really worried about pollution ride a bicycle.
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#3254459 - 01/20/14 09:00 PM Re: best warm up patern in winther. [Re: shDK]
crazyoildude Offline


Registered: 07/23/08
Posts: 5588
Loc: new jersey
at 20 degrees i let them warm up 5 to 7 minutes in the summer i let them warm up 2 minutes

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#3254471 - 01/20/14 09:14 PM Re: best warm up patern in winther. [Re: shDK]
sciphi Offline


Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 8576
Loc: Upstate NY
Start it, put on the seatbelt, tune the radio, and go. That usually takes 10-15 seconds. The manual transmission isn't lubricated unless the car is moving, so I use a quality synthetic lube in there.
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#3254483 - 01/20/14 09:27 PM Re: best warm up patern in winther. [Re: shDK]
gregk24 Offline


Registered: 04/13/13
Posts: 3050
Loc: FL, USA
Just because the engine has oil pressure doesnt mean its lubricated. I let it idle until the rpm starts to drop down, then I put it in drive and take it easy until its warmed up.
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#3254521 - 01/20/14 09:48 PM Re: best warm up patern in winther. [Re: shDK]
Doog Offline


Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 3491
Loc: Ohio
below 20F I let it sit for 10 minutes. In Summer...30-45 seconds.
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#3254529 - 01/20/14 09:55 PM Re: best warm up patern in winther. [Re: shDK]
expat Online   content


Registered: 05/12/09
Posts: 3893
Loc: Canada
I would say much depends on how hard you will work the engine once you get going.
I have the luxury that I have about 1 minutes driving before I need to even get up to 50kph.
So, (unless I need to scrape) I start and Go.

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#3254534 - 01/20/14 09:57 PM Re: best warm up patern in winther. [Re: shDK]
spasm3 Offline


Registered: 05/30/10
Posts: 3994
Loc: out there
I agree its better to start up and drive off leisurely. But I have wondered about situations in cold weather where you have to accelerate into traffic right off the bat. Are you better to let it run 5 minutes or just start up and go even if you are hitting say 4k rpm?


Edited by spasm3 (01/20/14 09:59 PM)
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#3254548 - 01/20/14 10:12 PM Re: best warm up patern in winther. [Re: crazyoildude]
Finz Offline


Registered: 06/06/13
Posts: 434
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
at 20 degrees i let them warm up 5 to 7 minutes in the summer i let them warm up 2 minutes


+1... Maybe it's a jersey thing.
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#3254583 - 01/20/14 10:56 PM Re: best warm up patern in winther. [Re: gregk24]
gathermewool Online   content


Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 3639
Loc: New England
Originally Posted By: gregk24
Just because the engine has oil pressure doesnt mean its lubricated. I let it idle until the rpm starts to drop down, then I put it in drive and take it easy until its warmed up.


That's pretty much exactly what it means...

I like the thought mentioned above, that my vehicle serves me, not the other way around. When I'm by myself, the temperatures aren't ridiculously low, and/or the humidity doesn't mean instant-visibility-killing fog I clear the windows, if applicable, start, and drive off. Otherwise, I'll warm'er up for a minutes while clearing snow and setting the defroster on high, or remote-start and let'er warm up if that's what I want that time.
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#3254591 - 01/20/14 11:06 PM Re: best warm up patern in winther. [Re: shDK]
bvance554 Offline


Registered: 09/24/12
Posts: 949
Loc: VA
When i was a kid back in the 80's my neighbor would wake me up in the morning 'warming up' his car. His 'warming up' consisted of starting the car and holding his foot on the accelerator revving it to ungodly rpm's for about two minutes, then drop it in drive and go. Even as a kid i didn't think this was the best method. For me, start it up, i can scrape the windows in about a minute, then drive it easy.

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#3254598 - 01/20/14 11:17 PM Re: best warm up patern in winther. [Re: shDK]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 33940
Loc: New Jersey
Modern cars with properly working and heated O2 sensors should go closed loop pretty fast. How well/fast they get out of the algorithm holding idle a bit faster may be a different story. However if you can go closed loop, you don't have a ton to worry about.

So IMO the best thing from an engine longevity point of view is to use a block heater if equipped, then to start the car, let it stabilize for a few seconds to perhaps a minute at most, then go. Driving should always be gentle, but especially for the first 20 miles/minutes. However, that's the case in ANY weather. When combustion processes are over 1000 degrees, and cooling systems are designed to disperse all heat in >100 degree conditions, the difference in operation from a cold design day to a hot one is kind of small.

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#3254702 - 01/21/14 06:27 AM Re: best warm up patern in winther. [Re: shDK]
Pop_Rivit Offline


Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 3667
Loc: Midwest
Originally Posted By: shDK
best warm up patern in winther.


Get in, start it up, and then drive.

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#3254707 - 01/21/14 06:42 AM Re: best warm up patern in winther. [Re: shDK]
datech Online   content


Registered: 01/14/14
Posts: 486
Loc: us
I think if you are concerned about cold operation use a heater to preheat the engine. Sometimes I even preheat the interior with a small electric heater.

It takes me a little time to put on my seat belt on, back out of my driveway, etc., but an extended warm up doesn't help.

I think as long as you keep engine RPM low, maybe below 2000, the engine can't tell if you are creeping along in drive or just sitting, but it will warm up quicker with a touch of throttle and rolling 30 - 40 mph.

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#3254716 - 01/21/14 07:08 AM Re: best warm up patern in winther. [Re: shDK]
dlundblad Offline


Registered: 09/30/13
Posts: 2033
Loc: Indiana
Does fuel dilution burn off like moisture in oil after you take the vehicle on the highway for a half hour? Or so it there to stay and contaminate the oil?
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#3254735 - 01/21/14 07:28 AM Re: best warm up patern in winther. [Re: shDK]
supton Offline


Registered: 11/09/08
Posts: 5051
Loc: NH
Depends upon how much ice is on the car, and temp. 20F and up, I don't mind driving off after maybe 10 seconds--you know, get in, start, buckle and adjust stuff, then drive. I might do that at 10F or even 0F, although at 0F I'm usually running back inside to warm up... And the idle is usually kinda rough, clutch stiff, etc.

But even at -10F I don't think I've ever let it go past 10min to "warm up". I don't think it needs more than 2-3 really. More for my comfort.

Now, getting ice to melt is a different issue. After Christmas I had to let the truck idle for about 20min. It had been parked for a couple weeks, and there was a nasty ridge of ice above the wipers. You know the sort, where it won't scrape off w/o hammering. I think it was during the polar whatever also, so it was stupid cold. Normally I don't need to warm up a vehicle to get ice off, but once in a while it's just really really stuck on, and a bit of heat seems best.

What I hate is when the windshield gets scraped off, and then freezes back up once you take off down the road, as there isn't any heat coming out of the defroster yet. That's annoying.
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#3254772 - 01/21/14 08:02 AM Re: best warm up patern in winther. [Re: shDK]
datech Online   content


Registered: 01/14/14
Posts: 486
Loc: us
I have read that some planes used in the Artic are equipped with a mechanism to dump a small amount of fuel in the engine oil.

It's used just before shut down so the next day start up will be easier. When the engine oil heats up the fuel evaporates leaving the correct viscosity oil for proper engine lubrication.

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#3255939 - 01/22/14 07:29 AM Re: best warm up patern in winther. [Re: shDK]
grampi Online   content


Registered: 10/08/06
Posts: 3684
Loc: OH
I let my car warm up for 10-15 mins when it's extremely cold, 5-10 mins when below freezing...I know some say it's not good for the vehicle to let it warm up for that long, but I routinely get 200K-300K miles out of my vehicles, so I'm guessing it can't be doing too much damage...besides, who likes riding in a cold vehicle and having to scrape windows?

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#3255967 - 01/22/14 08:02 AM Re: best warm up patern in winther. [Re: shDK]
cp3 Offline


Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 2621
Loc: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
-26C (-15F) here this morning. I'm car pooling this week so the Charger is still frozen but I plugged the G6 in before I left.I will get about 2 hours before the wife leaves. To me that's better than the remote start for 10 minutes.

Once it's below freezing my typical routine is to start it and clean it off before I leave. Haven't really let the cars run just to get heat since the kids were little.
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#3256096 - 01/22/14 10:26 AM Re: best warm up patern in winther. [Re: shDK]
Bamaro Offline


Registered: 08/03/03
Posts: 1109
Loc: Balto.
Some people are WAY too anal about warm-ups!
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#3256195 - 01/22/14 12:20 PM Re: best warm up patern in winther. [Re: Bamaro]
TFB1 Offline


Registered: 09/03/10
Posts: 2622
Loc: VA
Originally Posted By: Bamaro
Some people are WAY too anal about warm-ups!


Mostly due to the anal vortex that pulls them into BITOG...

If it's below 50F I usually idle mine four or five minutes then add another minute or two for each 10* below that...

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#3256345 - 01/22/14 02:08 PM Re: best warm up patern in winther. [Re: shDK]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7599
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Disclaimer: I'm referring to temps in Celsius.

If its -15c or warmer I don't even warm it up. I get in,start it,light a smoke,roll down the window a crack and drive. I've got 15kms of side roads that are too rough to drive any faster than 80km/hr-50mph so the engine gets driven very easily til I hit the highway.
By the time I've hit the highway junction the oil temp is 160+F so I accelerate quickly to 110km/hr-70mph and cruise to the city.
In temps colder than -15c I'll let it warm up a bit,if its -30 I let it warm up til its blowing hot air. -30 is darn cold. I pay for the fuel,maintenance and everything else on the vehicle so I couldn't care less what the bitog police think.
My vehicles are an appliance and built to serve me. It's just that simple.
Try turning the wheel at -30 in a cold car. The tires are frozen slightly out of round and it takes a mile or 2 for the thumping to stop.
If it isn't -15 and warmer then minimal warm up is required. Don't rev past 2000rpm til oil temp is at 160F and drive sensibly.
At -30 your breath with frost up the windows in minutes,and that's not safe. Visibility is important so if it means warming up my car to attain clear windows then so be it.
And my comfort is of the utmost importance to me. Why would I want to suffer being cold when my appliance can provide heat.
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#3257073 - 01/23/14 06:22 AM Re: best warm up patern in winther. [Re: TFB1]
KB2008X Offline


Registered: 06/21/12
Posts: 509
Loc: St. Louis, MO.
Originally Posted By: TFB1
Originally Posted By: Bamaro
Some people are WAY too anal about warm-ups!


Mostly due to the anal vortex that pulls them into BITOG...



Anal vortex !? oh that's good. I may have I popped on stitch on the hernia repair with that. lol
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#3257080 - 01/23/14 06:32 AM Re: best warm up patern in winther. [Re: shDK]
rjundi Online   content


Registered: 03/16/04
Posts: 6429
Loc: New England
Hmm. Wife leaves her 2005 Legacy/165k idling about 5 mins in the morning to make sure defrost working and car warm. At work she gets on highway within 1 min out of parking lot (no warm up) and is going 70-80mph.

It makes no difference in longevity of vehicles.
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#3258701 - 01/24/14 02:14 PM Re: best warm up patern in winther. [Re: shDK]
Thermo1223 Offline


Registered: 04/18/05
Posts: 1786
Loc: Easton, PA
^^^

I did that to the older Forester daily during the work week.

Revved to 5000 rpm in first to get on the highway from a dead stop.

Never seemed to care.
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#3259254 - 01/25/14 06:04 AM Re: best warm up patern in winther. [Re: shDK]
andyd Offline


Registered: 09/25/04
Posts: 3860
Loc: Marshfield , MA
Oh man, The cold start is where a modern engine with modern oil in it shines. It is so easy to start. 4F and I start the Transit van without touching the pedal. I set the heater on defrost and went back in to pack my lunch and coffee. 10 minutes later I'm back out and the crusted ice on the windshield is slush. The mouse fur upholstery is way better on my posterior than vinyl or leather too. So I hit the road with warm car that I can see out of. If the windshield is clear, I'm idling down the driveway in a cold car. The sooner the car warms up, the sooner I will. laugh
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#3259260 - 01/25/14 06:11 AM Re: best warm up patern in winther. [Re: shDK]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 21516
Loc: NY
I just don't like the idea of engaging a clutch or shifting a transmission into D or R when a cold engine is racing. I wait for the tack to idle down to 1,000 rpms and then go. That seems to have worked well for me since I started driving in the 70's. But then again I don't live where it gets to -30°F or colder either.
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#3259616 - 01/25/14 12:29 PM Re: best warm up patern in winther. [Re: shDK]
TiredTrucker Offline


Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 1076
Loc: Kellogg, IA
I suppose that if one is starting their vehicle after sitting all night and within the next few second, merging into 70 mph traffic on a freeway, then some form of warm up would be in order. But most of us have at a least a little bit of driving at a reduced speeds on streets before hitting the big road. An engine will warm up faster under moderate power than sitting at idle. After maybe a minute, mine is going to go into drive and I am going to head out. If the cold is something really blistering in the morning, the get a block heater, oil pan heater, and maybe a battery heater pad. That would be better for your engine than starting at extreme cold on it's own. These items are not that expensive, use little electrical power, can be put on a timer, and take a lot of strain off of an engine at startup in extreme cold.
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#3261481 - 01/27/14 11:52 AM Re: best warm up patern in winther. [Re: shDK]
supton Offline


Registered: 11/09/08
Posts: 5051
Loc: NH
Heh, I found myself annoyed with myself this morning. I took the truck, but as it was warm (like 18F) I didn't bother with warming up. Coming down the hill I wasn't thinking and forced a downshift, making the truck go into fuel cutoff. After going through the light and getting up to 55mph I had to endure at least 2 miles of driving with the trans refusing to go into high gear and lockup.

Teaches me about trying to save fuel and brakes!
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#3261491 - 01/27/14 12:04 PM Re: best warm up patern in winther. [Re: shDK]
Eddie Offline


Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 6803
Loc: Florida, Cape Coral
I wait till the engine comes off the fast idle before driving easy till full wanrm. Usually comes off the fast idle within 20 seconds. Ed
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#3261551 - 01/27/14 01:18 PM Re: best warm up patern in winther. [Re: shDK]
D189379 Offline


Registered: 09/01/04
Posts: 1283
Loc: Canada City, Canada
Someone should just make a sticky with all of the pros and cons of each method so this thread doesn't keep popping up.

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