Tesla recall
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"While the safety agency listed the action as a recall of Tesla Model S vehicles, Tesla said only the adapter needed work and that was being done with an “over-the-air” software update, so there was no need for owners to bring their vehicles into a dealership."
In other words, the final layer of protection is software/firmware and not a guaranteed hardware fix that will put a hard limit the currents in the adaptor and prevent overheating. If the software has a memory leak, overwrites itself, and locks up, what's to prevent the currents from maxing out?
This is not good practice for consumer-grade electrical power electronics, IMO. Kinda scary, in fact.
In other words, the final layer of protection is software/firmware and not a guaranteed hardware fix that will put a hard limit the currents in the adaptor and prevent overheating. If the software has a memory leak, overwrites itself, and locks up, what's to prevent the currents from maxing out?
This is not good practice for consumer-grade electrical power electronics, IMO. Kinda scary, in fact.
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
"While the safety agency listed the action as a recall of Tesla Model S vehicles, Tesla said only the adapter needed work and that was being done with an “over-the-air” software update, so there was no need for owners to bring their vehicles into a dealership."
In other words, the final layer of protection is software/firmware and not a guaranteed hardware fix that will put a hard limit the currents in the adaptor and prevent overheating. If the software has a memory leak, overwrites itself, and locks up, what's to prevent the currents from maxing out?
This is not good practice for consumer-grade electrical power electronics, IMO. Kinda scary, in fact.
It depends on how it is done. Since most likely there are already software control in place they can take advantage of that, or the existing software limit is not low enough and can cause overheating (not the software's fault but the system designer's fault for not checking the limit they tell the software to set).
I wouldn't worry so much about the "software" vs "hardware" debate. There are many good software design and bad hardware design as well. Since they already need to have software algorithm for charging, this is the last thing I'm worry about, as they would have ruin much bigger stuff like battery before overheating if they get it wrong.
"While the safety agency listed the action as a recall of Tesla Model S vehicles, Tesla said only the adapter needed work and that was being done with an “over-the-air” software update, so there was no need for owners to bring their vehicles into a dealership."
In other words, the final layer of protection is software/firmware and not a guaranteed hardware fix that will put a hard limit the currents in the adaptor and prevent overheating. If the software has a memory leak, overwrites itself, and locks up, what's to prevent the currents from maxing out?
This is not good practice for consumer-grade electrical power electronics, IMO. Kinda scary, in fact.
It depends on how it is done. Since most likely there are already software control in place they can take advantage of that, or the existing software limit is not low enough and can cause overheating (not the software's fault but the system designer's fault for not checking the limit they tell the software to set).
I wouldn't worry so much about the "software" vs "hardware" debate. There are many good software design and bad hardware design as well. Since they already need to have software algorithm for charging, this is the last thing I'm worry about, as they would have ruin much bigger stuff like battery before overheating if they get it wrong.
BTW, there are already mechanism in software design these days (like memory protection and watch dog timer) to make sure memory leak cannot cause safety issue (may cause crashes and shut down the unit). It is not possible to "accidentally" overwriting itself in flash memory because you need to go through a special driver to do so and cannot be done during normal operation. Lockup? That's how you do fail safe instead of over current the unit if there's a design problem, and it is good have fail safe layer up with good quality design, always.
The software update is done automatically on your home wi-fi network like any other update or communication they send out to the cars.
2 of the 3 fires people always cite (which by no means the car instantly erupted) were caused by the driver hitting a significant piece of steel on the freeway. Until Tesla figures out if they want to address this isolated issue, they used this same routine method of updates to sent a command to maintain a higher ride height. > FYI- (The third of 3 fires was in Mexico after a high speed collision into a large tree. The driver walked away)
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
In other words, the final layer of protection is software/firmware and not a guaranteed hardware fix that will put a hard limit the currents in the adaptor and prevent overheating. If the software has a memory leak, overwrites itself, and locks up, what's to prevent the currents from maxing out?
This is not good practice for consumer-grade electrical power electronics, IMO. Kinda scary, in fact.
Software is relied upon in industry for much more critical applications than this.
EDIT: BTW, Tesla shares up 16% today.
2 of the 3 fires people always cite (which by no means the car instantly erupted) were caused by the driver hitting a significant piece of steel on the freeway. Until Tesla figures out if they want to address this isolated issue, they used this same routine method of updates to sent a command to maintain a higher ride height. > FYI- (The third of 3 fires was in Mexico after a high speed collision into a large tree. The driver walked away)
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
In other words, the final layer of protection is software/firmware and not a guaranteed hardware fix that will put a hard limit the currents in the adaptor and prevent overheating. If the software has a memory leak, overwrites itself, and locks up, what's to prevent the currents from maxing out?
This is not good practice for consumer-grade electrical power electronics, IMO. Kinda scary, in fact.
Software is relied upon in industry for much more critical applications than this.
EDIT: BTW, Tesla shares up 16% today.
Guys, I DO software/hardware integrated system design for a living... and I'm telling you that the safety-of-equipment (let alone human life) should be in hardware when its possible. Yes, there are cases where you couldn't even use software if it didn't have to be the ultimate arbiter, and thus have to live up to safety-of-equipment and human life standards (flight control software in aircraft, throttle-by-wire in cars, that sort of thing.)I'm not saying software "cant be made safe," because it certainly can. But the cost is high to do so. Bottom line, this is a battery charging circuit! The software/firmware doesn't have to have control authority to let the current go to levels that aren't safe for the hardware itself.
^^^That last line is golden!
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Guys, I DO software/hardware integrated system design for a living... and I'm telling you that the safety-of-equipment (let alone human life) should be in hardware when its possible. Yes, there are cases where you couldn't even use software if it didn't have to be the ultimate arbiter, and thus have to live up to safety-of-equipment and human life standards (flight control software in aircraft, throttle-by-wire in cars, that sort of thing.)I'm not saying software "cant be made safe," because it certainly can. But the cost is high to do so. Bottom line, this is a battery charging circuit! The software/firmware doesn't have to have control authority to let the current go to levels that aren't safe for the hardware itself.
Agree, however usually there are layers and layers of safety mechanism, both within hardware and software (and they should) so any one of the layer tripping over should shut the system off.
Guys, I DO software/hardware integrated system design for a living... and I'm telling you that the safety-of-equipment (let alone human life) should be in hardware when its possible. Yes, there are cases where you couldn't even use software if it didn't have to be the ultimate arbiter, and thus have to live up to safety-of-equipment and human life standards (flight control software in aircraft, throttle-by-wire in cars, that sort of thing.)I'm not saying software "cant be made safe," because it certainly can. But the cost is high to do so. Bottom line, this is a battery charging circuit! The software/firmware doesn't have to have control authority to let the current go to levels that aren't safe for the hardware itself.
Agree, however usually there are layers and layers of safety mechanism, both within hardware and software (and they should) so any one of the layer tripping over should shut the system off.
I was at our new Tesla store yesterday, they are so freaken cool! Considering how advanced this car is, the fact that they have had fewer problems than Toyota recently is quite an achievement.
Lots of people seem to be cheering for them to fail which I don't get.
Lots of people seem to be cheering for them to fail which I don't get.
There have been several fires, etc., attributed to electric cars for various reasons and across differing mfgrs.
Tesla has done well, but new tech always has teething issues, eh?
They'll have to develop their platform just like everyone else, thank goodness for the 'early adopters' who are out there right now...
Tesla has done well, but new tech always has teething issues, eh?
They'll have to develop their platform just like everyone else, thank goodness for the 'early adopters' who are out there right now...
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Lots of people seem to be cheering for them to fail which I don't get.
Some people are just anti environment because the environmentalists drive them nuts, or they were brought up with big V8 and dislike anything that make big V8 uncool, or they hate the well off people who buy them to show off, or they hate the "hipsters" that brag about it all the time.
You can't make everyone like you, no matter how hard you try.
Lots of people seem to be cheering for them to fail which I don't get.
Some people are just anti environment because the environmentalists drive them nuts, or they were brought up with big V8 and dislike anything that make big V8 uncool, or they hate the well off people who buy them to show off, or they hate the "hipsters" that brag about it all the time.
You can't make everyone like you, no matter how hard you try.
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Lots of people seem to be cheering for them to fail which I don't get.
I don't get it either. Tesla is cutting edge technology, and I would think most gear heads would embrace it.
Tesla has rumored an affordable family sedan. I haven't thought about buying a new car in a long time, but a car priced like an Accord from Tesla would get me there.
Lots of people seem to be cheering for them to fail which I don't get.
I don't get it either. Tesla is cutting edge technology, and I would think most gear heads would embrace it.
Tesla has rumored an affordable family sedan. I haven't thought about buying a new car in a long time, but a car priced like an Accord from Tesla would get me there.
Yawn. Wake me up when they have a recall about a safety issue with the cars themselves instead of redesigning their charger to accommodate the lowest denominator dodgy home electrical wiring. The same thing could happen with a dryer or stove on dodgy home wiring.
Good on Tesla to be proactive, though. They're committed for the long haul, and this just reinforces the point.
Good on Tesla to be proactive, though. They're committed for the long haul, and this just reinforces the point.
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