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#3249355 - 01/15/14 03:25 PM Re: 23psi bpv oil filter for WRX? [Re: 94exa2]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 5484
Loc: PNW
Originally Posted By: 94exa2
I'm not hung up on the size. Same size as oem Subaru blue filter right?

I've read quite about about the Wix having a very small filter media, and not being able to flow enough for the Subaru oil pump.


If those two filters are about the same physical size, then how does their media surface area compare? Does the same physical sized OEM have that much more media?

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#3249401 - 01/15/14 04:14 PM Re: 23psi bpv oil filter for WRX? [Re: 94exa2]
Eddie Online   happy


Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 6408
Loc: Florida, Cape Coral
Gads. Excellent options offered and declined. Nothing more to do here.
_________________________
CX5 Touring 2.5L :-)

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#3249551 - 01/15/14 06:59 PM Re: 23psi bpv oil filter for WRX? [Re: 94exa2]
94exa2 Offline


Registered: 04/06/11
Posts: 54
Loc: nc
I appreciate the options given, but 99% of them don't have the 23psi bypass valve.

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#3249606 - 01/15/14 07:44 PM Re: 23psi bpv oil filter for WRX? [Re: 94exa2]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 5484
Loc: PNW
Originally Posted By: 94exa2
I appreciate the options given, but 99% of them don't have the 23psi bypass valve.


Suggest contacting Purolator and ask them why they spec a filter for that car that doesn't have the higher bypass valve setting. I think everyone would like to here what Purolator says about that. whistle

http://www.purolatorautofilters.net/pages/ContactUs.aspx

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#3249669 - 01/15/14 08:41 PM Re: 23psi bpv oil filter for WRX? [Re: sjstangman]
sxg6 Offline


Registered: 05/23/04
Posts: 2122
Loc: CT
Personally I use the oem blue subaru filter with my legacy.

I would use the 57712 wix/napa gold, but my knock on it would be it's flow rated at 9-11gpm. According to the factory service manual, the oil pump in my 2009 legacy is rated 1.2gpm @600rpm, 12.42gpm @5000rpm. The manual also says "or more" next to these values, so when my car is near red line at around 6300rpm, is my oil pump pushing around 15.64gpm?

The oem subaru oil filter is the only filter I trust to be designed with these specifications in mind, especially the high flow rating. Most aftermarket oil filter ive seen are rated at 8-11gpm or 9-11gpm.

Despite its more robust appearance, a member here said the old toyo roki filters bypass valve started to open at 18psi, not 23psi. He suspected that might be why subaru switched suppliers.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1559859

I don't like that the rx8 filter goes into bypass later than the subaru filter, @26.1psi vs subaru 23.2psi. I'm ok with the bypass opening a little too early, but not with it opening late if the engine needs the extra oil flow.


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#3250958 - 01/17/14 08:53 AM Re: 23psi bpv oil filter for WRX? [Re: sxg6]
94exa2 Offline


Registered: 04/06/11
Posts: 54
Loc: nc
Originally Posted By: sxg6
Personally I use the oem blue subaru filter with my legacy.

I would use the 57712 wix/napa gold, but my knock on it would be it's flow rated at 9-11gpm. According to the factory service manual, the oil pump in my 2009 legacy is rated 1.2gpm @600rpm, 12.42gpm @5000rpm. The manual also says "or more" next to these values, so when my car is near red line at around 6300rpm, is my oil pump pushing around 15.64gpm?

The oem subaru oil filter is the only filter I trust to be designed with these specifications in mind, especially the high flow rating. Most aftermarket oil filter ive seen are rated at 8-11gpm or 9-11gpm.

Despite its more robust appearance, a member here said the old toyo roki filters bypass valve started to open at 18psi, not 23psi. He suspected that might be why subaru switched suppliers.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1559859

I don't like that the rx8 filter goes into bypass later than the subaru filter, @26.1psi vs subaru 23.2psi. I'm ok with the bypass opening a little too early, but not with it opening late if the engine needs the extra oil flow.



My concerns exactly. Ive always read that most "aftermarket" oil filters dont flow enough for the Subaru oil pump, plus the lack of correct bypass valve.

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#3251096 - 01/17/14 11:18 AM Re: 23psi bpv oil filter for WRX? [Re: 94exa2]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 5484
Loc: PNW
Originally Posted By: 94exa2
Ive always read that most "aftermarket" oil filters dont flow enough for the Subaru oil pump, plus the lack of correct bypass valve.


Where's the proof of that? Have you seen actual tests of flow vs. PSID for those filters, like the graph shown below? Or is it just some keyboard jockey's theory?

Based on this data from Purolator, this PureOne could flow enough for a Subaru oil pump. A 5 PSID at 12 GPM isn't really much pressure drop when you think about it.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...451#Post1619451


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#3251414 - 01/17/14 04:42 PM Re: 23psi bpv oil filter for WRX? [Re: 94exa2]
sxg6 Offline


Registered: 05/23/04
Posts: 2122
Loc: CT
When you pull up the specs for the wix 57712 oil filter, they state the following "Max Flow Rate: 9-11 GPM". I'll openly admit I don't know much about psid and pressure across the filter media. But what I do know is that they say that the max flow rate is 9-11gpm, and the subaru oil pump clearly exceeds that at times. So to the layman like myself, that concerns me.

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#3251422 - 01/17/14 04:57 PM Re: 23psi bpv oil filter for WRX? [Re: sxg6]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 5484
Loc: PNW
Originally Posted By: sxg6
When you pull up the specs for the wix 57712 oil filter, they state the following "Max Flow Rate: 9-11 GPM". I'll openly admit I don't know much about psid and pressure across the filter media. But what I do know is that they say that the max flow rate is 9-11gpm, and the subaru oil pump clearly exceeds that at times. So to the layman like myself, that concerns me.


Two questions:

1) Is this max oil flow volume specified by Subaru (as stated by 94exa2 above) the actual flow volume that goes through the filter & engine, or the gross flow volume the oil pump can put out with no resistance on the outlet of the pump? If it's the latter, it doesn't necessarily mean all of that flow goes through the filter & engine oiling system. Where is the spec/documentation that clearly states the oil flow that is actually going through the engine is 12~15 GPM as stated by 94exa2 above?

2) Is the WIX 57712 specified by WIX for the Subaru engine with such a high volume oil pump? If so, why did WIX specify that filter knowing the Subaru has such a high volume oiling system? WIX specified a higher 23 psi bypass valve, so they must know some performance details of the Subaru engine(s) they are specifying filters for.

Also, the "max flow" spec that WIX advertises means exactly what? The flow with X viscosity oil that results in the bypass valve opening? Or what ... ???

Sounds like a good question for someone to email WIX about to get some engineering input/clarification on what their "max flow" spec number really means.

What "max flow" spec would you tack on to the PureOne Flow vs PSID graph above? ... 18 ~ 20 GPM because that's about when the bypass valve would start to open? What I'm saying here is you have to fully understand what WIX's "max flow" spec really means to understand the real capability of the oil filter.

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#3251439 - 01/17/14 05:16 PM Re: 23psi bpv oil filter for WRX? [Re: sxg6]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 5484
Loc: PNW
Originally Posted By: sxg6

The oem subaru oil filter is the only filter I trust to be designed with these specifications in mind, especially the high flow rating. Most aftermarket oil filter ive seen are rated at 8-11gpm or 9-11gpm.


So have you actually seen any flow vs PSID data on the Subaru OEM oil filter? How do you really know it flows any better than say the WIX/NAPA Gold?

Keep in mind that these well known brand name aftermarket oil filter companies that specify one of their oil filters for these Subarus also claim that their oil filter meets OEM manufacturer's performance specs, and they warranty the filter to not cause any engine damage in their warranty claim statement.

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#3251536 - 01/17/14 07:13 PM Re: 23psi bpv oil filter for WRX? [Re: 94exa2]
SHOZ Offline


Registered: 06/28/03
Posts: 1366
Loc: Illinois
The Hyundai spin on filter has a 20 psi bypass.

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#3251753 - 01/18/14 12:01 AM Re: 23psi bpv oil filter for WRX? [Re: 94exa2]
Izb Offline


Registered: 07/02/08
Posts: 286
Loc: London, UK
BEFORE any migration from original (Tokyo Roki) filter into Wix (57712 for EJ only, 57830 for FB only) the main question is:
What is filtration efficiency of original filter?

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#3251902 - 01/18/14 08:14 AM Re: 23psi bpv oil filter for WRX? [Re: 94exa2]
Jim Allen Offline


Registered: 08/12/05
Posts: 4477
Loc: NW Ohio
This question can be settled relatively easily.

Someone needs to install a DP gauge setup and measure DP with several filters. You could make a simple one by finding an adapter to go under the filter that has a port on each side of the filter oil flow (an aftermarket adapter for a cooler might work). Install a DP gauge or a single gauge on each side and read off the difference in pressures at various temps, loads and rpms. If the factory filter has significantly lower DP than the rest, you know it's a higher flow unit. If the others are equal, nearly equal or better, then you know "flow" is not an issue.

I think you guys are trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist. The filter manufacturers have access to data that we don't. Even it they don't physically test each part number of a vehicle, it logical to assume they check the data to make sure the part number meets the necessary specifications on paper at least.

Bypass pressure is as much based on the filter media as anything. A better flowing media (either via the amount of media or the type) might have a lower bypass setting. Sometimes the bypass setting is based on how much DP the media can accept. DP is also very dependent on the oil viscosity, as I have learned via the DP setup I have on my Ford 5.4L. With 30 grade oil, I was much closer to bypass, or bypassing more, than with the spec'ed 5W20 which basically never reaches bypass DP unless I rev to 5,000 rpm with the oil at 0F.

In any case, if someone wants to be a Subie Superhero and answer this question, it's a relatively simple process.



Edited by Jim Allen (01/18/14 08:16 AM)
_________________________
Jim Allen
Keepin' the Good Old Days of Four Wheeling Alive

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