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#3248032 - 01/14/14 11:34 AM Re: 23psi bpv oil filter for WRX? [Re: 901Memphis]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 5583
Loc: PNW
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis

Also this thread has a chart in it with PSID

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2301839&page=2


Post #45 quote: "Be careful with BITOG, there are lots of people who think they know what they're talking about."

Humm ... wonder if he's a member here?

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#3248104 - 01/14/14 12:38 PM Re: 23psi bpv oil filter for WRX? [Re: 94exa2]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 5583
Loc: PNW
Post #57 in the Nasioc forum linked above:

"Well, 25-27 psi is really close to 23, so that's a pretty small difference. Since pressure drop is a serial phenomenon, there would potentially be less pressure at the bearings and less pressure available to operate the AVCS. I stress potentially though, that would only be true when the filter was close to bypassing."

He doesn't realize that with a positive displacement oil pump (key to the discussion), the flow and pressure throughout the system is still the same, even if there is a larger pressure drop across the filter. What a more restrictive filter does do however, is make the pump output pressure increase accordingly to maintain the same flow and pressure in the engine, and this puts the pump closer to its pressure relief setting. But a more restrictive filter doesn't reduce the flow or pressure to the bearings up to that point.

The only time there would be a reduction of flow and pressure to the bearings is when the oil pump has hit pressure relief and the filter's restrictiveness has caused reduced flow due to increased resistance - as compared to a less restrictive oil filter.

The only reason I can see why Subaru uses such a high bypass valve setting is because their filter must be somewhat flow restrictive, and that combined with a high volume oiling system, and what ever factor they have thrown in for debris loading, causes the bypass setting to 23 PSI.

As I said earlier, if a filter manufacturer has specified a filter for a Subaru application that normally uses an OEM filter with a 23 PSI bypass setting, then the reason the aftermarket filter has a lower setting is probably because it flows better, and maybe they didn't put such a large safety margin on the bypass setting for debris loading, etc.




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#3248180 - 01/14/14 02:06 PM Re: 23psi bpv oil filter for WRX? [Re: 94exa2]
94exa2 Offline


Registered: 04/06/11
Posts: 54
Loc: nc
http://www.purolatorautofilters.net/reso...X&year=2005

They both say 14-18 psi to me. Maybe they change their website when I look it. If their site say 14-18 when I look, I don't want it.

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#3248183 - 01/14/14 02:08 PM Re: 23psi bpv oil filter for WRX? [Re: ZeeOSix]
94exa2 Offline


Registered: 04/06/11
Posts: 54
Loc: nc
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix


As I said earlier, if a filter manufacturer has specified a filter for a Subaru application that normally uses an OEM filter with a 23 PSI bypass setting, then the reason the aftermarket filter has a lower setting is probably because it flows better, and maybe they didn't put such a large safety margin on the bypass setting for debris loading, etc.





"Higher flowing", as in, in bypass mode constantly? I could see that flowing alot more than actually going through the filter media...

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#3248239 - 01/14/14 02:54 PM Re: 23psi bpv oil filter for WRX? [Re: 94exa2]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 5583
Loc: PNW
Originally Posted By: 94exa2
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix

As I said earlier, if a filter manufacturer has specified a filter for a Subaru application that normally uses an OEM filter with a 23 PSI bypass setting, then the reason the aftermarket filter has a lower setting is probably because it flows better, and maybe they didn't put such a large safety margin on the bypass setting for debris loading, etc.


"Higher flowing", as in, in bypass mode constantly? I could see that flowing alot more than actually going through the filter media...


I'm talking about a "higher flowing" filter with the bypass valve always being closed. When oil flows through the media, it causes a pressure difference ("PSID" or "delat-P") across the filter. Here's an example of how the delta-P increases with increased oil flow while keeping the viscosity constant.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...451#Post1619451

Variables that effect how much delta-P is produced across an oil filter are:
1) Flow performance per square inch of the media.
2) Total square inch area of the media (as area goes up, delta-P goes down if everything else is constant).
3) Oil flow volume.
4) Oil viscosity.
5) Debris loading rate vs. filter change interval.

All of these factors are considered when the filter designer comes up with a filter's bypass valve setting.

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#3248313 - 01/14/14 03:57 PM Re: 23psi bpv oil filter for WRX? [Re: 94exa2]
sjstangman Offline


Registered: 12/08/11
Posts: 114
Loc: Southern Jersey
Originally Posted By: 94exa2
http://www.purolatorautofilters.net/reso...X&year=2005

They both say 14-18 psi to me. Maybe they change their website when I look it. If their site say 14-18 when I look, I don't want it.


Your link is for the 14612. I linked to the 14460... completely different filters.

Based on this link it should fit the 2005 but not the 2006 and up.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2148430

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#3248623 - 01/14/14 09:41 PM Re: 23psi bpv oil filter for WRX? [Re: sjstangman]
94exa2 Offline


Registered: 04/06/11
Posts: 54
Loc: nc
Originally Posted By: sjstangman
Originally Posted By: 94exa2
http://www.purolatorautofilters.net/reso...X&year=2005

They both say 14-18 psi to me. Maybe they change their website when I look it. If their site say 14-18 when I look, I don't want it.


Your link is for the 14612. I linked to the 14460... completely different filters.

Based on this link it should fit the 2005 but not the 2006 and up.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2148430



I just went to the Purolator website and put in 2005 Subaru Wrx, and those are the filters they suggest. Not the correct bypass valve so I will pass.

I guess I am looking for more information on the new Subaru H6 Tokyo Roki, and newer Mazda Rx8 Tokyo Roki oil filters. Or a source to get the older oem Subaru TR oil filters meant for my car lol.

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#3248745 - 01/15/14 12:23 AM Re: 23psi bpv oil filter for WRX? [Re: 94exa2]
tenderloin Offline


Registered: 12/16/02
Posts: 5898
Loc: Huntington Beach, CA
It appears the TR filter that is for the S2 RX8 is N3R1-14-302. y Pass rating is 20.326.1 PSI About $10+ ea. with crush washers (pack of 6) delivered (2 places I checked) Filter is longer

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#3248776 - 01/15/14 02:08 AM Re: 23psi bpv oil filter for WRX? [Re: tenderloin]
94exa2 Offline


Registered: 04/06/11
Posts: 54
Loc: nc
Originally Posted By: tenderloin
It appears the TR filter that is for the S2 RX8 is N3R1-14-302. y Pass rating is 20.326.1 PSI About $10+ ea. with crush washers (pack of 6) delivered (2 places I checked) Filter is longer


Do you know of any Tokyo Roki filters that could be bought from Subaru other than the (larger diameter) H6 filter? I would love a TR of the correct size, instead of being much fatter or stick down to far from being to tall. And needs 23 psi bypass valve..

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#3248788 - 01/15/14 03:43 AM Re: 23psi bpv oil filter for WRX? [Re: 94exa2]
901Memphis Online   content


Registered: 08/14/10
Posts: 3639
Loc: Northern Kentucky
The Wix has the correct 23 psi bypass valve, why aren't you considering it?
_________________________
'99 Ford Taurus 145k (Vulcan v6) - Current Fill = M1 HM 5w30 | FL400S
'02 Buick Century 98k (3.1 v6)- PU 5w30 / Fram Ultra XG 3980 / Filter mag

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#3248858 - 01/15/14 07:24 AM Re: 23psi bpv oil filter for WRX? [Re: 94exa2]
Eddie Offline


Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 6414
Loc: Florida, Cape Coral
WIX has the correct filter as 901 states. Is it possible that the NAPA GOLD for the WRX is the same?
_________________________
CX5 Touring 2.5L :-)

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#3249184 - 01/15/14 12:30 PM Re: 23psi bpv oil filter for WRX? [Re: Eddie]
05foresterXT Online   content


Registered: 11/01/11
Posts: 110
Loc: Buffalo, NY
Originally Posted By: Eddie
WIX has the correct filter as 901 states. Is it possible that the NAPA GOLD for the WRX is the same?


He's apparently hung up on the size of it. The same recommendations were made on nasioc, but he doesn't want to use the "tiny" wix filter, but only wants the tokyo roki filter that's discontinued here, or info on whether the RX8's big tokyo roki filter will work.
_________________________
2005 Subaru Forester XT
Rotella T6 5w40

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#3249281 - 01/15/14 01:59 PM Re: 23psi bpv oil filter for WRX? [Re: 94exa2]
tenderloin Offline


Registered: 12/16/02
Posts: 5898
Loc: Huntington Beach, CA
Cannot help much more than we have . Wix/Napa is perfect for his car. Good quality, right specs, priced right..easily found..but? Size which is fine for one model year later tha his is an issue? . Same with Mazda S2 RX8 filter that he inquired about. Helped with the research, found that it fits, although longer.Right spec;s he was concerned about. Found out pricing...Now seemingly only, wants something that hasn't been made in years. Oh well.

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#3249332 - 01/15/14 02:56 PM Re: 23psi bpv oil filter for WRX? [Re: 05foresterXT]
94exa2 Offline


Registered: 04/06/11
Posts: 54
Loc: nc
I'm not hung up on the size. Same size as oem Subaru blue filter right?
IF I can find the correct To Ro filters before my next oil change I will buy those.
IF one of the other Subaru Tokyo Roki filters (that seem to still be bought from the dealer) would work perfect, I would consider those. Same with Rx8.

Apparently the correct size Purolator has the wrong bypass valve, and the Purolator with the correct bypv is to0 large (diameter).

So Wix 57712 is really the ONLY non-oem oil filter with the correct 23psi? Would I be smart to trust Wix over Fram? lol

I've read quite about about the Wix having a very small filter media, and not being able to flow enough for the Subaru oil pump.


Edited by 94exa2 (01/15/14 03:08 PM)

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#3249347 - 01/15/14 03:11 PM Re: 23psi bpv oil filter for WRX? [Re: tenderloin]
94exa2 Offline


Registered: 04/06/11
Posts: 54
Loc: nc
Originally Posted By: tenderloin
Cannot help much more than we have . Wix/Napa is perfect for his car. Good quality, right specs, priced right..easily found..but? Size which is fine for one model year later tha his is an issue? . Same with Mazda S2 RX8 filter that he inquired about. Helped with the research, found that it fits, although longer.Right spec;s he was concerned about. Found out pricing...Now seemingly only, wants something that hasn't been made in years. Oh well.


Its not that I want ONLY the filter discontinued by SOA years ago, but, I would prefer those if I could find a box.

So all this about the Wix "being too small" is only for the 06+ 2.5?

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