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#3262255 - 01/28/14 06:15 AM Re: Upper cylinder lube vs. oil additives [Re: Garak]
fpracha Offline


Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 479
Loc: MA
Originally Posted By: Garak
Now, if they were really pushing the UCL thing and doubled the price of the product, I might have a concern.

Can you please comment: is it safe to use PEA-type additives in the latest engines ?
What are the real concerns about purely UCL additives in the newer engine models?

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#3262317 - 01/28/14 07:26 AM Re: Upper cylinder lube vs. oil additives [Re: Cujet]
leroyd92 Offline


Registered: 01/21/14
Posts: 236
Loc: AZ
Originally Posted By: Cujet
I hate to admit it, but I tried MMO in the gas in my 2003 Jaguar X-Type 2.5L V6. I was experiencing a rough idle and started thinking about poor valve sealing, sticky rings, balky injectors and so on. Considering that MMO has been known to help in such matters, I tried it. Success!

I added nearly a quart of the stuff to a 15 gallon tank. The engine was nearly instantly smooth. And, it clearly remains so many tanks later.

What happened? I really don't know. And, while I prefer scientific methodology and reasoning over "old wives tales", I can only speculate on the reasons why it worked. I will refrain from doing so.



Mmo was what got me into using additives in my fuel... ive never used it as an ucl but one of our trucks developed a pinging under load and it hand never done that before....

20gallons of gas, 32oz of mystery oil, and ten minutes of idle made her buttery smooth, no more pinging under a load, exhaust smelled like a candy factory, truck started easier then ever before, and for that tank, black soot would bellow out if you stepped on the go pedal...

No idea what it cleaned, had no intention to lube the cylinders, just wanted it to clean whatever broke free in the fuel system... and it worked.... that's why I use tcw3 in my gas...can't hurt

Sorry to go off on a speachel lol

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#3262325 - 01/28/14 07:31 AM Re: Upper cylinder lube vs. oil additives [Re: fpracha]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 11606
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
I'd use PEA additives in new engines, no concern at all. Those are about the only ones I've seen recommended or approved by even a few automakers. I do use the Red Line and Regane in my G on occasion.

As for a pure UCL additive, the only concern I would have is what I believe Shannow mentioned in one of these threads - burning something that might not be all that friendly to cats. Additionally, are there enough benefits?

I haven't seen a lot of evidence for a significant benefit to a UCL for vehicle longevity, aside from certain niche applications. Something that still had valves from the unleaded gasoline days might benefit. Rotary engines burn oil by design. Running a tiny dose of two cycle oil in the gas as many do here is probably harmless, even to the cat. Is it going to significantly add to the lifespan of my engine? I'm not so sure.

Any pure UCL additives, also, should work as advertised, rather than being snake oil. There are too many companies like Lucas involved in that segment of the market.

If I decided I wanted to use a UCL, I'd just use Red Line SI-1 in maintenance doses.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Hastings LF113
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

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#3262739 - 01/28/14 02:31 PM Re: Upper cylinder lube vs. oil additives [Re: dino33]
Triton_330 Offline


Registered: 12/24/13
Posts: 294
Loc: Illinois, USA
Questions:
So, is MMO both a UCL and a cleaner?
If so, could one say that MMO is better than the lucas fuel additive?

I've used MMO in my gas before from time to time, because the only gas station in my hometown is Caseys... And let's just say that, even the good old guys down at O'reilly's will tell you that Caseys gas is (insert expletive word). I knew a guy whose check engine light would come on when he filled up at Casey's, but as soon as that tank was out, if he filled up at BP, the light went out and the truck ran noticeably better.
_________________________
'01 F-150 5.4L ~ 120k mi.
- Mag 1 syn 5w-30 w/MC filter
'89 Camaro RS 305 ~ 47k mi.
- PYB 5w-30 w/AC Delco filter

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#3262771 - 01/28/14 02:54 PM Re: Upper cylinder lube vs. oil additives [Re: Triton_330]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7364
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: Triton_330
Questions:
So, is MMO both a UCL and a cleaner?
If so, could one say that MMO is better than the lucas fuel additive?

I've used MMO in my gas before from time to time, because the only gas station in my hometown is Caseys... And let's just say that, even the good old guys down at O'reilly's will tell you that Caseys gas is (insert expletive word). I knew a guy whose check engine light would come on when he filled up at Casey's, but as soon as that tank was out, if he filled up at BP, the light went out and the truck ran noticeably better.



Actually the Lucas upper cylinder lube contains pib,and pib will improve gas mileage by helping fuel burn more completely.
There's lots of info on pib and fuel efficiency,google should bring something up for you.
As far as the cats are concerned tc-w3 shouldn't affect them at all because it's ashless and leaves no residue behind,right?
I use tc-w3 in every fuel burning machine I own,including my zoomboom and everything I use it in runs better with it.
Probably subjective but for the pennies it costs to dose I'm gonna keep on keeping on.
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#3264479 - 01/30/14 02:45 AM Re: Upper cylinder lube vs. oil additives [Re: Clevy]
Triton_330 Offline


Registered: 12/24/13
Posts: 294
Loc: Illinois, USA
Originally Posted By: Clevy

Actually the Lucas upper cylinder lube contains pib,and pib will improve gas mileage by helping fuel burn more completely.
There's lots of info on pib and fuel efficiency,google should bring something up for you.
As far as the cats are concerned tc-w3 shouldn't affect them at all because it's ashless and leaves no residue behind,right?
I use tc-w3 in every fuel burning machine I own,including my zoomboom and everything I use it in runs better with it.
Probably subjective but for the pennies it costs to dose I'm gonna keep on keeping on.


So, I took your advice and went out and bought some tcw3. Where I am right now it's cold... My face went numb just walking to my truck out in the parking lot... So I also bought some MMO for my oil haha. I tell you what, I can't stand Ford's dummy oil pressure gauge. Scares me when it shows no pressure, but then I remember that if its below something like 10, (or was is 5?) psi it just won't read anything. So I'm hoping the MMO will thin my oil enough to help me out on cold starts.
As for the tcw3, I bought the Quicksilver Premium Plus 2-Cycle Outboard Oil... Havn't used it yet since I had previously already had MMO in the tank, still about 3/4 a tank, so I'm gonna wait til the next fill up. Is the Quicksilver tcw3 good?
_________________________
'01 F-150 5.4L ~ 120k mi.
- Mag 1 syn 5w-30 w/MC filter
'89 Camaro RS 305 ~ 47k mi.
- PYB 5w-30 w/AC Delco filter

Top
#3264484 - 01/30/14 03:35 AM Re: Upper cylinder lube vs. oil additives [Re: Triton_330]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 21314
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Triton_330

Is the Quicksilver tcw3 good?


It sure is, you can also use a less expensive TCW3 oil if you'd like. I bought Pennzoil's version for about $10 a gallon on some sort of closeout a few years ago. You can also use Supertech TCW3 if there's a Walmart near you.
_________________________
GOD Bless our Troops


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#3264529 - 01/30/14 06:47 AM Re: Upper cylinder lube vs. oil additives [Re: demarpaint]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 33778
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Triton_330

Is the Quicksilver tcw3 good?


It sure is, you can also use a less expensive TCW3 oil if you'd like. I bought Pennzoil's version for about $10 a gallon on some sort of closeout a few years ago. You can also use Supertech TCW3 if there's a Walmart near you.


Yeah but that st stuff stinks, literally.

Made that mistake, thought I was slick buying cheapo ST oil to use as an additive, couldn't get past the odor!

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#3264743 - 01/30/14 10:28 AM Re: Upper cylinder lube vs. oil additives [Re: JHZR2]
Triton_330 Offline


Registered: 12/24/13
Posts: 294
Loc: Illinois, USA
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Triton_330

Is the Quicksilver tcw3 good?


It sure is, you can also use a less expensive TCW3 oil if you'd like. I bought Pennzoil's version for about $10 a gallon on some sort of closeout a few years ago. You can also use Supertech TCW3 if there's a Walmart near you.


Yeah but that st stuff stinks, literally.

Made that mistake, thought I was slick buying cheapo ST oil to use as an additive, couldn't get past the odor!


Most likely, if I see positive results from using this, I will just buy a gallon off Amazon. The prices on Amazon were cheaper than what I saw at Walmart. I just wanted to try a smaller container out first so I could verify that it helps my truck.
_________________________
'01 F-150 5.4L ~ 120k mi.
- Mag 1 syn 5w-30 w/MC filter
'89 Camaro RS 305 ~ 47k mi.
- PYB 5w-30 w/AC Delco filter

Top
#3264820 - 01/30/14 12:03 PM Re: Upper cylinder lube vs. oil additives [Re: Triton_330]
Ramblejam Online   content


Registered: 11/05/13
Posts: 1011
Loc: Kentucky
Originally Posted By: Triton_330
Is the Quicksilver tcw3 good?


I don't see why not.

I've been using Evinrude/Johnson Super Premium in my '03 F-150 as it carries TC-W3RL approval.

Let us know how it works out for you.

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#3264954 - 01/30/14 02:26 PM Re: Upper cylinder lube vs. oil additives [Re: Ramblejam]
Triton_330 Offline


Registered: 12/24/13
Posts: 294
Loc: Illinois, USA
Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: Triton_330
Is the Quicksilver tcw3 good?


I don't see why not.

I've been using Evinrude/Johnson Super Premium in my '03 F-150 as it carries TC-W3RL approval.

Let us know how it works out for you.


Sorry to be naive, but what does the "RL" part of that mean? I believe what I bought is just tc-w3, not tc-w3rl. Is there a difference?

P.S. Nice to see someone on here with the same Gen of F-150 as me. What oil do you use in it?
_________________________
'01 F-150 5.4L ~ 120k mi.
- Mag 1 syn 5w-30 w/MC filter
'89 Camaro RS 305 ~ 47k mi.
- PYB 5w-30 w/AC Delco filter

Top
#3264993 - 01/30/14 03:17 PM Re: Upper cylinder lube vs. oil additives [Re: Triton_330]
Ramblejam Online   content


Registered: 11/05/13
Posts: 1011
Loc: Kentucky
Originally Posted By: Triton_330
Sorry to be naive, but what does the "RL" part of that mean? I believe what I bought is just tc-w3, not tc-w3rl. Is there a difference?

P.S. Nice to see someone on here with the same Gen of F-150 as me. What oil do you use in it?


RL certification is supposedly the latest & greatest when it comes to TC-W3 oils -- Evinrude specifically states that if their XD100 oil (100:1 ratio) is unavailable, an RL product is to be used. Looking at ad copy alone: "It is certified RL which means it has high film strength for improved lubricity that results in increased engine efficiency, reduced bearing wear and cleaner emissions with less smoke."

Of course, if you browse over to the NMMA site, every single oil listed carries an RL number, so who knows: http://www.nmma.org/assets/cabinets/Cabinet456/2013%20TC-W3.pdf

As for the F-150, I've been running Mobil 1 High Mileage 5w-20 with a Motorcraft FL-820S.

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#3265011 - 01/30/14 03:39 PM Re: Upper cylinder lube vs. oil additives [Re: JHZR2]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 21314
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Triton_330

Is the Quicksilver tcw3 good?


It sure is, you can also use a less expensive TCW3 oil if you'd like. I bought Pennzoil's version for about $10 a gallon on some sort of closeout a few years ago. You can also use Supertech TCW3 if there's a Walmart near you.


Yeah but that st stuff stinks, literally.

Made that mistake, thought I was slick buying cheapo ST oil to use as an additive, couldn't get past the odor!


LOL Honestly the smell doesn't bother me, but then again I've been using up my stash of the $10/gallon Pennzoil TCW3 I bought.
_________________________
GOD Bless our Troops


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#3265022 - 01/30/14 04:06 PM Re: Upper cylinder lube vs. oil additives [Re: Ramblejam]
Triton_330 Offline


Registered: 12/24/13
Posts: 294
Loc: Illinois, USA
Originally Posted By: Ramblejam

RL certification is supposedly the latest & greatest when it comes to TC-W3 oils -- Evinrude specifically states that if their XD100 oil (100:1 ratio) is unavailable, an RL product is to be used. Looking at ad copy alone: "It is certified RL which means it has high film strength for improved lubricity that results in increased engine efficiency, reduced bearing wear and cleaner emissions with less smoke."

Of course, if you browse over to the NMMA site, every single oil listed carries an RL number, so who knows: http://www.nmma.org/assets/cabinets/Cabinet456/2013%20TC-W3.pdf

As for the F-150, I've been running Mobil 1 High Mileage 5w-20 with a Motorcraft FL-820S.


Well shoot, that's kind of confusing. It lists ALL of them as RL's...

It seems to me that it might just be the next gen API spec - like how tc-w2 went to tc-w3. But I could've sworn the bottle I bought only said tc-w3 and didn't say RL, but yet on that list it has the RL. Either way, even if what I bought isn't RL spec (which it could well be), it's not like the tc-w3 non-RL is going to hurt anything. Right?

As for our trucks, one thing I've always wondered is if there really is that big of a deal between running 5w-20 and 5w-30. We have the 2V version, and AFAIK, that (our) generation of F-150 didn't have the ticking problems that the next gen (the 3V) had. I read somewhere that, if not for CAFE (etc.), then the 97-03 F-150s would have been spec'd for 5w-30. There's been some debate on whether or not there was any change in tolerance between 2V and 3V, but honestly, I don't really care. I run 5w-30 and my 2V Triton has never given me troubles. I just wonder, after using 5w-30 for a while, if I could still put in 5w-20 if I wanted to.
_________________________
'01 F-150 5.4L ~ 120k mi.
- Mag 1 syn 5w-30 w/MC filter
'89 Camaro RS 305 ~ 47k mi.
- PYB 5w-30 w/AC Delco filter

Top
#3265062 - 01/30/14 04:57 PM Re: Upper cylinder lube vs. oil additives [Re: Triton_330]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7364
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: Triton_330
Originally Posted By: Clevy

Actually the Lucas upper cylinder lube contains pib,and pib will improve gas mileage by helping fuel burn more completely.
There's lots of info on pib and fuel efficiency,google should bring something up for you.
As far as the cats are concerned tc-w3 shouldn't affect them at all because it's ashless and leaves no residue behind,right?
I use tc-w3 in every fuel burning machine I own,including my zoomboom and everything I use it in runs better with it.
Probably subjective but for the pennies it costs to dose I'm gonna keep on keeping on.


So, I took your advice and went out and bought some tcw3. Where I am right now it's cold... My face went numb just walking to my truck out in the parking lot... So I also bought some MMO for my oil haha. I tell you what, I can't stand Ford's dummy oil pressure gauge. Scares me when it shows no pressure, but then I remember that if its below something like 10, (or was is 5?) psi it just won't read anything. So I'm hoping the MMO will thin my oil enough to help me out on cold starts.
As for the tcw3, I bought the Quicksilver Premium Plus 2-Cycle Outboard Oil... Havn't used it yet since I had previously already had MMO in the tank, still about 3/4 a tank, so I'm gonna wait til the next fill up. Is the Quicksilver tcw3 good?
as far as using mmo to thin your oil I've never,ever recommended it for that to anyone for that purpose.
I have recommended it for engines that may have deposits forming though.
And I'm using mmo in my inverse oiler on my charger.
I use a frankenbrew of either acetone/xylene/toluene and the cheapest tc-w3 I can find off the shelf.
Tc-w3 is a spec so all oils that meet it should perform exactly the same. And let's be honest,1 ounce per 5 gallons of fuel isn't a whole lot so any potential benefits aren't going to be seen right away.
Over time using it could lead to keeping the entire fuel system clean,the injectors maintaining the proper spray pattern for longer,on port injection designs the intake valve remains spotless and that minute leftover layer of oil may help seal the valve which means less potential compression loss.
My 99 chev Z-71 had a whiny fuel pump. Using tc-w3 stopped the whining.
I can't say whether tc-w3 will help on the exhaust side as far as valve cleaning or not.
I use the stuff in everything and have for years. Whenever I take something apart the fuel system is always perfect.
The carbs on my air compressors and generators never have little leaks where the ethanol has eaten away at it. They start easy,first pull most times. There's no cats to foul. They never have carb issues unless I've somehow done something.
I'm know millions of vehicles drive all their miles with just fuel in the tank and they ran great and I'm happy for those drivers however I figure for the pennies it costs to use I might as well.
I feel over time engine lose that little bit of responsiveness that new vehicles have. I feel that using tc-w3 may help keep that like new pep for longer.
I do piston/intake soak with mmo too every 20k too. Pour a whole bottle in the intake line so it completely soaks the intake tract,intake valves,piston crowns and the exhaust valve. I pour it fast so it stalls the engine then give it 20 minutes to soak,half hour if its the first time.
If you think sea foam puts on a smoke show its got nothin on mmo.
I then take the vehicle out for a spirited drive getting the rpm up high enough to suck all the mmo through,and in high gear at low rpm and full throttle to really expand the ring packs against the cylinder walls helping break loose deposits and re-creating that positive seal,which can. Cause oil consumption over time.
These little things rob the instant responsiveness from an engine.
PEA is great stuff for helping remove carbon deposits from the combustion chambers and the exhaust valve. It seems to be able to scrub carbon after being burned,or so it seems.
Anyways be sure to update with any observations. I'm interested in your results,and if any are noticeable.
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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