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#3249621 - 01/15/14 07:59 PM Re: Upper cylinder lube vs. oil additives [Re: Challenger71]
OVERKILL Online   content


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 26379
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Challenger71
Because a taxi can run and achieve 500k miles is significant in it's own right and deserves some merit. However because vehicle gets that far does not mean it operates at optimum. All we know is that it runs well enough and thats about it. Especially with taxis I see around here with their shot valve seals. I try to achieve optimum as best that I can for my vehicles and when it comes to fuel I try to apply a buffer to ethanol with the use of a UCL for the entire fuel system.


Yeah but a UCL isn't going to prevent those valve seals from failing either wink

I'm not an engine guru, but I've torn a number of them down (or been involved in the tear down process) for performance upgrades and stuff, mostly SBF's but a buddy of mine has had a few SBC's that we've been into too. Even the very high mileage examples, run on just good oil and fuel, the SBF's still had visible cross-hatching on the walls, the pistons were pristine....etc. shrug I'm not sure what a UCL would have prevented in a situation like that, because it certainly wouldn't be wear, since there wasn't any, LOL!

Perhaps as Trav alluded to, there are some engines that benefit from it. My experience has shown that I've never owned or worked on one of those engines though wink
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#3249641 - 01/15/14 08:21 PM Re: Upper cylinder lube vs. oil additives [Re: OVERKILL]
Garak Online   content


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 11593
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
And it's important to note that taxis in my day (SBC engines) were on propane, which was considered substantially "worse" than unleaded fuel from a lubricating standpoint. There was no feasible way to use an UCL, and the vehicles went hundreds of thousands of kilometres.

I'm not going to say that a UCL is harmful. I'm sure the contrary is true. But, does it make a real difference?
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#3249696 - 01/15/14 09:06 PM Re: Upper cylinder lube vs. oil additives [Re: dino33]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 21301
Loc: NY
Anyone care to explain how an engine the consumed a qt. of oil every 1,500 miles goes to a qt. of oil every 1,800-1,900 miles and the only thing that changed was the addition of a UCL? Same oil, same filter, same PCV valve, same OCI. As Trav alluded to there are some engines that can benefit from it. hide


Edited by demarpaint (01/15/14 09:09 PM)
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#3249831 - 01/15/14 11:21 PM Re: Upper cylinder lube vs. oil additives [Re: dino33]
147_Grain Offline


Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 1311
Loc: USA
Perhaps the UCL helped loosen up the partially stuck oil control rings.
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#3249903 - 01/16/14 04:27 AM Re: Upper cylinder lube vs. oil additives [Re: OVERKILL]
Trav Offline


Registered: 11/20/06
Posts: 9935
Loc: MA, Mittelfranken.de
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Yes, and they have coated skirts on the pistons too.

We've never run a UCL in anything, not even our antique boat engines or Ford 8N tractor (which is still going). Just good oil changed at reasonable intervals.


I never used it either but i was thinking about these old cars (20's- 50's) that many people installed the inverse oilers on.

I dont know about the oil and fuels available back in those times and the effects they had on the top end.
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#3249944 - 01/16/14 06:58 AM Re: Upper cylinder lube vs. oil additives [Re: Garak]
dave5358 Offline


Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 669
Loc: North Bend
Originally Posted By: Garak
And it's important to note that taxis in my day (SBC engines) were on propane, which was considered substantially "worse" than unleaded fuel from a lubricating standpoint. There was no feasible way to use an UCL, and the vehicles went hundreds of thousands of kilometres.


Ehhh? Why no feasible way? I can't imagine an engine on which an oiler could not be installed. And, you could always add a UCL to the fuel tank, although that might be unlikely for a taxi.

As for taxis running propane, that was fairly unusual - a few very large cities with serious pollution issues. Taxis tend to rack up high mileage and last a long time because the engines rarely cools down, and most taxis are driven in a fairly conservative manner. Plus, fleet owners tend to take maintenance quite seriously.
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#3250804 - 01/17/14 12:17 AM Re: Upper cylinder lube vs. oil additives [Re: dave5358]
Garak Online   content


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 11593
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: dave5358
Why no feasible way? I can't imagine an engine on which an oiler could not be installed. And, you could always add a UCL to the fuel tank, although that might be unlikely for a taxi.

My fleet was on propane for most years, so dumping a little 2 cycle oil into the fuel tank wasn't an option. wink

Propane taxis were very common here at one time given how cheap the fuel was at the time.
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#3250830 - 01/17/14 02:36 AM Re: Upper cylinder lube vs. oil additives [Re: dino33]
Shannow Offline


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 26786
Loc: a prison island
I had an oiler on my propane vehicle...It already had valve seat recession when I got it, so I wanted it to not get worse.

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#3250844 - 01/17/14 04:32 AM Re: Upper cylinder lube vs. oil additives [Re: Shannow]
Garak Online   content


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 11593
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
How was such a thing set up on the propane vehicle? The LPG became big here when leaded fuel was being eliminated, so engines had been upgraded in regard to seats.
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#3250846 - 01/17/14 04:49 AM Re: Upper cylinder lube vs. oil additives [Re: dino33]
Shannow Offline


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 26786
Loc: a prison island
A bit like this kit...
http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/online-...rom=60402#Cross

I made a "T" piece out of brass tubing that fit in the PCV line to the Q-Jet, and fitted the oiler kit...worked on the premise that the carb manifold would be careful to distribute PCV fumes more evenly tan a hole drilled in the manifold.

You "tune" it to the number of drops per minute of UCL (flashlube is a lead replacement additive, we only lost lead in 1990ish, having unleaded and low lead since 1987).

Lubricates only while there is vacuum across the throttle plate, but that's most times in a car's life.

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#3250852 - 01/17/14 06:01 AM Re: Upper cylinder lube vs. oil additives [Re: Shannow]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 21301
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Shannow
A bit like this kit...
http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/online-...rom=60402#Cross

I made a "T" piece out of brass tubing that fit in the PCV line to the Q-Jet, and fitted the oiler kit...worked on the premise that the carb manifold would be careful to distribute PCV fumes more evenly tan a hole drilled in the manifold.

You "tune" it to the number of drops per minute of UCL (flashlube is a lead replacement additive, we only lost lead in 1990ish, having unleaded and low lead since 1987).

Lubricates only while there is vacuum across the throttle plate, but that's most times in a car's life.


That's exactly how my MMO Inverse Oiler works. A Tee fitting plumbed into the PCV vacuum line, dial in how many drips per minute you want it to feed and your gtg. It should consume about 1 qt. per 1,000 miles. It can also be set up on stationary engines or any engine that produces vacuum.

There are copies of it out there IIRC they all work the same way.
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#3250911 - 01/17/14 08:07 AM Re: Upper cylinder lube vs. oil additives [Re: Garak]
dave5358 Offline


Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 669
Loc: North Bend
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: dave5358
Why no feasible way? I can't imagine an engine on which an oiler could not be installed. And, you could always add a UCL to the fuel tank, although that might be unlikely for a taxi.

My fleet was on propane for most years, so dumping a little 2 cycle oil into the fuel tank wasn't an option. wink

Propane taxis were very common here at one time given how cheap the fuel was at the time.


Right, you can't easily dump an upper cylinder lube into a pressurized propane gas tank. But you could install a lubricator. All you need is a vacuum tap, preferably beyond the throttle body.

Propane conversions are normally done by professional shops on engines originally designed to run on gasoline. I'm surprised an oiler wasn't installed as part of the conversion. By comparison to propane, gasoline seem absolutely oily. When a UCL is used in a propane/cng conversion, the dosage rate can be very low.

You raised a good point that I had forgotten about - propane is really cheap. Our local gas-electric utility ran its vehicles on propane and operating economy was probably a big motivation. The $2000-4000 cost of a propane conversion would pay for itself in just a few years.
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#3250954 - 01/17/14 08:50 AM Re: Upper cylinder lube vs. oil additives [Re: dino33]
Mephy Offline


Registered: 04/01/08
Posts: 278
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: dino33
A lot of people have that opinion. What do you think about a good UCL?


If you want a good UCL I discuss this here:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...cep#Post3247925

Foget about Lucas Interceptor will cost you less as well.
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#3250957 - 01/17/14 08:52 AM Re: Upper cylinder lube vs. oil additives [Re: Shannow]
dave5358 Offline


Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 669
Loc: North Bend
Originally Posted By: Shannow
A bit like this kit...
http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/online-...rom=60402#Cross

I made a "T" piece out of brass tubing that fit in the PCV line to the Q-Jet, and fitted the oiler kit...worked on the premise that the carb manifold would be careful to distribute PCV fumes more evenly tan a hole drilled in the manifold.

You "tune" it to the number of drops per minute of UCL (flashlube is a lead replacement additive, we only lost lead in 1990ish, having unleaded and low lead since 1987).

An ideal way to insert a UCL is to drip it into the center of the air/fuel stream. Marvel and other oiler/lubricator makers made installation kits to accomplish this task for popular engines and carburetors.



This particular kit is just a throttle body spacer (silver piece, top of picture) with a small tube inserted - it appears to be soldered in. It drips the oil down two of the carburetor barrels. But less-than-perfect installations work quite well, such as using the PCV tap. The oil vaporizes in the manifold turbulence.

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Lubricates only while there is vacuum across the throttle plate, but that's most times in a car's life.

Most lubricators 'sense' the vacuum level because they are designed to insert oil inversely to the vacuum level. So, a heavily loaded engine - wide open throttle - gets more oil than just cruising down the boulevard. And, when the vacuum is very high - coasting down a hill on closed throttle - almost no UCL goes in. If you simply put the UCL into the gas tank, you get some of this variable rate benefit since more fuel is consumed with a wide open throttle. But a mechanical oiler can greatly accelerate this rate of oil input gain.

The UCL actually gets sucked into the engine based on Bernouli's Principle. So oilers work fine on turbo- or super-charged engines, because there is always air/fuel flowing into the engine, regardless of vacuum or pressure in the manifold. The tip of the UCL input point basically works like a unsealed Pitot tube.
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#3251485 - 01/17/14 06:20 PM Re: Upper cylinder lube vs. oil additives [Re: OVERKILL]
Ramblejam Offline


Registered: 11/05/13
Posts: 1006
Loc: Kentucky
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Ford's Modular engine seems to do just fine racking up obscene mileage without a UCL.


There are certainly many high-mileage ones out there.

I find it rather interesting though to park my idling, 225,00 mile F-150 farm truck next to another of the same vintage -- with the standard dosage of 1oz/5gal TC-W3, it's noticeably quieter in comparison.

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