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#3247130 - 01/13/14 03:12 PM Re: Running 0W-40 where 5W-30 is specified [Re: SHOZ]
CATERHAM Offline


Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 9563
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
I run 0w40 M1. Hit the pump bypass pressure quite a bit.

Exactly, which is why it's heavier than necessary for any Chevy including a track driven Corvette Z-06.
There simply isn't a scenario where anything heavier than M1 5W-30 is required for a Chevy.
_________________________
74 Lotus Europa 5W-50
86 Porsche 928S TGMO 0W-20 25%/M1 0W-40
96 BMW 328i Idemitsu/TGMO 0W-20 70%/M1 0W-40
94 Caterham 7 Sustina 0W-20 80%/0W-50

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#3247132 - 01/13/14 03:14 PM Re: Running 0W-40 where 5W-30 is specified [Re: CATERHAM]
OVERKILL Online   content


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 26373
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
I run 0w40 M1. Hit the pump bypass pressure quite a bit.

Exactly, which is why it's heavier than necessary for any Chevy including a track driven Corvette Z-06.
There simply isn't a scenario where anything heavier than M1 5W-30 is required for a Chevy.


GM uses M1 0w-40 in their corporate race program Corvette's. So it seems GM feels differently about that.
_________________________
Network Engineer
02 Expedition
01 BMW ///M5
06 Charger R/T

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#3247133 - 01/13/14 03:14 PM Re: Running 0W-40 where 5W-30 is specified [Re: Clevy]
novadude Offline


Registered: 01/16/03
Posts: 1350
Loc: mechanicsburg, PA
Originally Posted By: Clevy
The 0w-40 grade is something special. It meets many performance engine specs as well as the euro long drain specs and so on. I am not a Mobil fan at all however that oil is the one that would have me swallow my disdain for Mobil,especially if we could get it for the 25 a jug the American walmarts stock it for.


....and that is the whole reason why I am looking at this oil. It's a very robust product that would make me feel better about extended drains, and it doesn't cost a penny more than the M1 5W-30 I am running today.

Can't really believe that the pump would be in bypass all the time for such a minor change in Viscosity (Remember, it's a very light 40 wt).

Compare it to M1HM 5W-30:

Vis @ 40 = 69.2
Vis @ 100 = 11.7

M1 0W-40:

Vis @ 40 = 75 (8% higher)
Vis @ 100 = 13.5 (15% higher)

For comparison, M1HM 10W-30

Vis @ 40 = 78.1
Vis @ 100 = 12

Won't the 0W-40 shear down a bit in operation anyway?

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#3247139 - 01/13/14 03:21 PM Re: Running 0W-40 where 5W-30 is specified [Re: novadude]
CATERHAM Offline


Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 9563
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: novadude

Can't really believe that the pump would be in bypass all the time for such a minor change in Viscosity (Remember, it's a very light 40 wt).

What you're not comparing is the more relevant HTHSVs.
M1 0W-40 is 3.85cP vs 3.1cP for M1 5W-30. That's a big difference and it is HTHSV that correlates with oil pressure which is why the oil pump will still be in by-pass mode at elevated rev's at normal operating temp's in your engine.
_________________________
74 Lotus Europa 5W-50
86 Porsche 928S TGMO 0W-20 25%/M1 0W-40
96 BMW 328i Idemitsu/TGMO 0W-20 70%/M1 0W-40
94 Caterham 7 Sustina 0W-20 80%/0W-50

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#3247163 - 01/13/14 03:39 PM Re: Running 0W-40 where 5W-30 is specified [Re: CATERHAM]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 21301
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: novadude

Can't really believe that the pump would be in bypass all the time for such a minor change in Viscosity (Remember, it's a very light 40 wt).

What you're not comparing is the more relevant HTHSVs.
M1 0W-40 is 3.85cP vs 3.1cP for M1 5W-30. That's a big difference and it is HTHSV that correlates with oil pressure which is why the oil pump will still be in by-pass mode at elevated rev's at normal operating temp's in your engine.


Does oil pump remaining in by-pass mode at elevated rpm's at normal operating temps also apply to the 2014 Coyote Ford engine [calling for 5W50] with the track pack from another thread? The reason I ask is its sister engine w/o the track pack calls for 5W20 oil. Thanks.
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#3247168 - 01/13/14 03:49 PM Re: Running 0W-40 where 5W-30 is specified [Re: novadude]
aquariuscsm Offline


Registered: 12/30/06
Posts: 9888
Loc: South Texas,USA
How would one know if their car's oil pump is in bypass mode,and what exactly does it mean when that happens?
_________________________
1996 Nissan 300ZX 5-speed,Arctic Pearl(#175 of 300)
Syntec 10W40/Fram Ultra
Amsoil MTG(tranny)
Amsoil 80W90 GL5(rear diff)
Mobil 1 ATF
Redline Water Wetter

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#3247170 - 01/13/14 03:52 PM Re: Running 0W-40 where 5W-30 is specified [Re: novadude]
Shannow Offline


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 26783
Loc: a prison island
If you have a pressure gauge, it reaches a figure then stays pegged. You can rev it cold, and see where it tops out at.

If you aren't on it continuously, then no problem...if you are, then still no problem, you are wasting energy.

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#3247177 - 01/13/14 03:56 PM Re: Running 0W-40 where 5W-30 is specified [Re: demarpaint]
CATERHAM Offline


Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 9563
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: novadude

Can't really believe that the pump would be in bypass all the time for such a minor change in Viscosity (Remember, it's a very light 40 wt).

What you're not comparing is the more relevant HTHSVs.
M1 0W-40 is 3.85cP vs 3.1cP for M1 5W-30. That's a big difference and it is HTHSV that correlates with oil pressure which is why the oil pump will still be in by-pass mode at elevated rev's at normal operating temp's in your engine.


Does oil pump remaining in by-pass mode at elevated rpm's at normal operating temps also apply to the 2014 Coyote Ford engine [calling for 5W50] with the track pack from another thread? The reason I ask is its sister engine w/o the track pack calls for 5W20 oil. Thanks.

That's a very good point which I didn't want to get into in that thread. I'm sure it is in by-pass at normal operating temp's just like it almost certainly is with Bimmers running TWS 10W-60.
Which means the oil will likely run hotter which will further thin the oil out so that eventually it will be out of by-pass but at a higher oil temperature equilibrium.
The point being, if you're not seeing the higher oil temp's with the lighter oil it is counter-production to run anything heavier.
_________________________
74 Lotus Europa 5W-50
86 Porsche 928S TGMO 0W-20 25%/M1 0W-40
96 BMW 328i Idemitsu/TGMO 0W-20 70%/M1 0W-40
94 Caterham 7 Sustina 0W-20 80%/0W-50

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#3247191 - 01/13/14 04:03 PM Re: Running 0W-40 where 5W-30 is specified [Re: CATERHAM]
novadude Offline


Registered: 01/16/03
Posts: 1350
Loc: mechanicsburg, PA
I don't really care if the pump is in bypass at high revs. I don't spend a lot of time at high revs. Besides, ALL oil pumps go into bypass at high revs, even with 0W-20.

Higher HTHS generally means higher film strength too, right? Better protecion?

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#3247202 - 01/13/14 04:12 PM Re: Running 0W-40 where 5W-30 is specified [Re: Shannow]
novadude Offline


Registered: 01/16/03
Posts: 1350
Loc: mechanicsburg, PA
Originally Posted By: Shannow
If you have a pressure gauge, it reaches a figure then stays pegged. You can rev it cold, and see where it tops out at.



No you can't (not on all cars). From what I've observed, the bypass restriction is going to let the pressure go higher when the oil is cold and thick and in full bypass mode. When the oil is hot and the pump is in bypass mode, the oil can pass through the restriction easier, and you see the true bypass value determined by the calibrated bypass valve spring .

I see my pressure bump close to 60 psi on the gage in my other vehicle when cold. When hot, you can rev it until it blows, and that gage will never to 45 psi.

I don't know how many millions of Chevy V8s ever survived the 1960s with no overdrive, running down the highway at 3000 rpm with pumps at the full 45 psi bypass for 1000s of miles with SF or lower API oils?

You guys are making too much of this bypass deal. Pumps run in bypass in all engines. It is not going to overheat your oil if you run the pump in bypass mode at high revs, unless we are talking about a track car. Can't see it ever being a concern on the street.

So anyway - back to the question at hand... Assuming I don't care about running a thicker oil than required, are there any real negatives to using M1 0W-40? From what I see, it's a superior oil to 5W-30 at the same price? Am I right, or am I missing something?


Edited by novadude (01/13/14 04:14 PM)

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#3247206 - 01/13/14 04:19 PM Re: Running 0W-40 where 5W-30 is specified [Re: CATERHAM]
novadude Offline


Registered: 01/16/03
Posts: 1350
Loc: mechanicsburg, PA
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

The point being, if you're not seeing the higher oil temp's with the lighter oil it is counter-production to run anything heavier.


How do you know that? How can you tell that there is no temporary breakdown of the oil film at the piston/ring interface, etc? Maybe not enough to heat up the oil, but enough to initiate the wear process?

I am not saying go run 20W-50 in everything - I understand the benefits of thin oil (heat removal, less parasitic losses, etc, etc). However, there has GOT to be a reason why Ford, Mopar, BMW, etc all spec something heavier in their performance models that are going to take a beating.

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#3247217 - 01/13/14 04:32 PM Re: Running 0W-40 where 5W-30 is specified [Re: novadude]
CATERHAM Offline


Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 9563
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Using your example 60 psi is your effective by-pass point.
The fact that the thinned out hot oil only is seeing 45 psi at high rev's is because you are operating well below by-pass.

You're asking the wrong question. If you are in by-pass at normal operating temp's running the heavier than spec' oil there are a whole lot of disadvantages. The point is, there are NO advantages.
When you say "it's a superior oil to 5W-30" what is are you referring to specifically. Higher AW and TBN levels?
You probably don't need the former and I don't thick you've expressed a desire to extend your OCI so no advantage there either.
_________________________
74 Lotus Europa 5W-50
86 Porsche 928S TGMO 0W-20 25%/M1 0W-40
96 BMW 328i Idemitsu/TGMO 0W-20 70%/M1 0W-40
94 Caterham 7 Sustina 0W-20 80%/0W-50

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#3247226 - 01/13/14 04:49 PM Re: Running 0W-40 where 5W-30 is specified [Re: novadude]
SHOZ Offline


Registered: 06/28/03
Posts: 1785
Loc: Illinois
My Genesis Coupe hits 75 lbs easily when the oil is cold. Then after it is warmed up it will hit 75 lbs at high rpms. If it gets to over 200F I don't think it hits the 75 lbs but the oil is seldom at that temp.

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#3247263 - 01/13/14 05:26 PM Re: Running 0W-40 where 5W-30 is specified [Re: novadude]
aquariuscsm Offline


Registered: 12/30/06
Posts: 9888
Loc: South Texas,USA
My car came with a sticker under the hood that says "10W is preferred" and recommends 10W30 and 10W40. Is their any advantages to me running 10W40 instead of 10W30 "wear wise" and/or vise versa?
_________________________
1996 Nissan 300ZX 5-speed,Arctic Pearl(#175 of 300)
Syntec 10W40/Fram Ultra
Amsoil MTG(tranny)
Amsoil 80W90 GL5(rear diff)
Mobil 1 ATF
Redline Water Wetter

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#3247269 - 01/13/14 05:30 PM Re: Running 0W-40 where 5W-30 is specified [Re: SHOZ]
CATERHAM Offline


Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 9563
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
My Genesis Coupe hits 75 lbs easily when the oil is cold. Then after it is warmed up it will hit 75 lbs at high rpms. If it gets to over 200F I don't think it hits the 75 lbs but the oil is seldom at that temp.

What oil brand and grade are you running?
_________________________
74 Lotus Europa 5W-50
86 Porsche 928S TGMO 0W-20 25%/M1 0W-40
96 BMW 328i Idemitsu/TGMO 0W-20 70%/M1 0W-40
94 Caterham 7 Sustina 0W-20 80%/0W-50

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