Originally Posted By: Miller88
It'll wax my engines up
Think of that as extreme film strength and sacrificial protection layer.
It'll wax my engines up
Think of that as extreme film strength and sacrificial protection layer.
PQIA tests ten 5W-20s - one gets an Advisory
- Thread starter Tom NJ
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Originally Posted By: cheesepuffs
Originally Posted By: BrandonT
How do we know if the PYB on the shelf right now is this new formulation?
Yes, I also wanna know. If anybody here learns of date codes or something like that then please post them.
Do you guys think this possible GTL based PYB is across all viscosities or is it only 5w-20?
I'd say it's a little early to be jumping to conclusions based upon individual NOACK tests of a single grade. New formulation? We don't know that. Testing error? Mola's supposition? Temporary base stock change due to a shortage?
Originally Posted By: BrandonT
How do we know if the PYB on the shelf right now is this new formulation?
Yes, I also wanna know. If anybody here learns of date codes or something like that then please post them.
Do you guys think this possible GTL based PYB is across all viscosities or is it only 5w-20?
I'd say it's a little early to be jumping to conclusions based upon individual NOACK tests of a single grade. New formulation? We don't know that. Testing error? Mola's supposition? Temporary base stock change due to a shortage?
Originally Posted By: Norm Olt
Just a question: What was the 5W-20 NOAK spec for SL or (GF-4)?
For 5W-X oils:
SH/GF-1 = 25%
SJ/GF-2 = 22%
SL,SM,SN/GF-3,4,5 - 15%
Tom NJ
Just a question: What was the 5W-20 NOAK spec for SL or (GF-4)?
For 5W-X oils:
SH/GF-1 = 25%
SJ/GF-2 = 22%
SL,SM,SN/GF-3,4,5 - 15%
Tom NJ
I guess the insanely low NOACK's, less than maybe 8.7 (around there for Mobil 1 0w-40) or so can always help alert us when a company is using GTL.
How is GTL viewed? Is it viewed as an equal to previous Group IV or III+ ? Do we see any downsides to GTL based oils?
How is GTL viewed? Is it viewed as an equal to previous Group IV or III+ ? Do we see any downsides to GTL based oils?
Tom NJ:
Thanks, Tom!
If I was really concerned I'd mix it with some other 5W-20. It also would seem to me to be a situation where Valvoline might be "left holding the bag" if (REALLY, "IFF" as in "if and ONLY if")...
There was 1). a warranty claim denied 2). on an "oil-related" incident 3). that was somehow solely due to an oil whose NOAK spec was "22%" higher than required.
Maybe (and I think it would be stretching it) there could conceivably be an after-warranty situation in which an oil-related failure might be construed (and proved?) to be due to an oil "not meeting" a specific specification, but...
Much more likely that someone who has never been on this Forum (and can't spell "analysis") ran their car 15K and 3 quarts low with the oil light on for 6 months, etc. "had another problem"...
Probably like those pesky tires with 22 lbs. of air in 'em?
Cheers!
Thanks, Tom!
If I was really concerned I'd mix it with some other 5W-20. It also would seem to me to be a situation where Valvoline might be "left holding the bag" if (REALLY, "IFF" as in "if and ONLY if")...
There was 1). a warranty claim denied 2). on an "oil-related" incident 3). that was somehow solely due to an oil whose NOAK spec was "22%" higher than required.
Maybe (and I think it would be stretching it) there could conceivably be an after-warranty situation in which an oil-related failure might be construed (and proved?) to be due to an oil "not meeting" a specific specification, but...
Much more likely that someone who has never been on this Forum (and can't spell "analysis") ran their car 15K and 3 quarts low with the oil light on for 6 months, etc. "had another problem"...
Probably like those pesky tires with 22 lbs. of air in 'em?
Cheers!
I was thinking Nextgen synthetic was in my future. Now, I'm not sure…
Originally Posted By: bigt61
Can we retest the QSGB and PYB in the 5W-30 flavor?
+1
Can we retest the QSGB and PYB in the 5W-30 flavor?
+1
NOTE: per the PQIA data on SN 5W-30 QSGB & PYB they were in the 14.x range...
I still don't see how this one anecdotal test report affects any of the other weights or Synthetic NextGen or NextGen MaxLife, etc.
Maybe because my newest car is more than old enough to vote (and almost DRINK (hic!) in all the States)? I guess if we bought a new (as in 2013+) vehicle I'd just use another oil for a decade or so...
Cheers!
Cheers!
I still don't see how this one anecdotal test report affects any of the other weights or Synthetic NextGen or NextGen MaxLife, etc.
Maybe because my newest car is more than old enough to vote (and almost DRINK (hic!) in all the States)? I guess if we bought a new (as in 2013+) vehicle I'd just use another oil for a decade or so...
Cheers!
Cheers!
Originally Posted By: ChevyBadger
Originally Posted By: bigt61
Can we retest the QSGB and PYB in the 5W-30 flavor?
+1
And who's going to do the re-test? It certainly won't be PQIA, that's not in their mandate.
Ordering a typical VOA won't help since NOACK and CCS aren't tests that are provided. If you can find a lab that will do it, it will undoubtedly be expensive.
Originally Posted By: bigt61
Can we retest the QSGB and PYB in the 5W-30 flavor?
+1
And who's going to do the re-test? It certainly won't be PQIA, that's not in their mandate.
Ordering a typical VOA won't help since NOACK and CCS aren't tests that are provided. If you can find a lab that will do it, it will undoubtedly be expensive.
Regarding PQIA's test of Pennzoil 5W-30. The sample was purchased in 9/11 and Shell's Pearl GTL plant in Qatar didn't go on-line until 6/11, and didn't reach full capacity until the end of 2012 (according to Shells website). I think that the vast majority of Shell's GTL comes from this facility so it is not likely that GTL basestock was widely available when the Pennzoil 5W-30 sample was manufactured.
If Shell is currently using GTL in their Pennzoil 5W-20 I would assume that they are also using it in their Pennzoil 5W-30, however the only way to know for sure would be to test it.
If Shell is currently using GTL in their Pennzoil 5W-20 I would assume that they are also using it in their Pennzoil 5W-30, however the only way to know for sure would be to test it.
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I don't really think the Valvoline nextgen result is to be blamed on "nextgen." If you look at Valvoline PDS for *MOST* of the white bottles products (depending on viscosity) they simply say "less than 15."
However, Maxlife Nextgen has better Noacks listed, so I will keep using Maxlife Nextgen in old sedan I have, and not worry about the standard product I don't use.
Basically, VWB and standard Nexten just don't look very good on paper compared to all the other options out there.
Now, of course it's annoying they are going beyond the listed specs. I would only hope most of the time they are within the less than 14.5 or less than 15 specs and this was an odd batch.
However, Maxlife Nextgen has better Noacks listed, so I will keep using Maxlife Nextgen in old sedan I have, and not worry about the standard product I don't use.
Basically, VWB and standard Nexten just don't look very good on paper compared to all the other options out there.
Now, of course it's annoying they are going beyond the listed specs. I would only hope most of the time they are within the less than 14.5 or less than 15 specs and this was an odd batch.
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I received a reply from Valvoline:
"Thank you very much for contacting Valvoline pertaining to your concern with the information provided by PQIA. Valvoline is extremely committed to the quality of our products and has become aware that PQIA has published an advisory on our Valvoline NextGen SAE 5W-20 Motor Oil. Based on multiple data points generated at the time of manufacture, the sample in question met all the requirements for an SAE 5W-20 API SN/Resource Conserving, ILSAC GF-5 engine oil. The varied testing results bring to light the industry concern with the ASTM test (D5800) used to measure lubricant volatility and it's inherent variability. It is this variability that we feel may explain the differences in the test results. We very much appreciate PQIA's service to our industry and are working with them to resolve the matter to their satisfaction.
Once again, we greatly appreciate you taking the time to contact us and if you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us.
Thank you and have a great day!!
Valvoline Product Support
Thank you,
Valvoline Product Support"
"Thank you very much for contacting Valvoline pertaining to your concern with the information provided by PQIA. Valvoline is extremely committed to the quality of our products and has become aware that PQIA has published an advisory on our Valvoline NextGen SAE 5W-20 Motor Oil. Based on multiple data points generated at the time of manufacture, the sample in question met all the requirements for an SAE 5W-20 API SN/Resource Conserving, ILSAC GF-5 engine oil. The varied testing results bring to light the industry concern with the ASTM test (D5800) used to measure lubricant volatility and it's inherent variability. It is this variability that we feel may explain the differences in the test results. We very much appreciate PQIA's service to our industry and are working with them to resolve the matter to their satisfaction.
Once again, we greatly appreciate you taking the time to contact us and if you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us.
Thank you and have a great day!!
Valvoline Product Support
Thank you,
Valvoline Product Support"
Yeah but a 22% variability? That would be nearly 50% swing in either direction.
If that the case, the NOACK test is completely worthless.
If that the case, the NOACK test is completely worthless.
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
I received a reply from Valvoline:
"Thank you very much for contacting Valvoline pertaining to your concern with the information provided by PQIA. Valvoline is extremely committed to the quality of our products and has become aware that PQIA has published an advisory on our Valvoline NextGen SAE 5W-20 Motor Oil. Based on multiple data points generated at the time of manufacture, the sample in question met all the requirements for an SAE 5W-20 API SN/Resource Conserving, ILSAC GF-5 engine oil. The varied testing results bring to light the industry concern with the ASTM test (D5800) used to measure lubricant volatility and it's inherent variability. It is this variability that we feel may explain the differences in the test results. We very much appreciate PQIA's service to our industry and are working with them to resolve the matter to their satisfaction.
Once again, we greatly appreciate you taking the time to contact us and if you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us.
Thank you and have a great day!!
Valvoline Product Support
Thank you,
Valvoline Product Support"
Sounds a lot like "the test is unfair, wah!". How come only this one oil was so far over 15%, twice? I hope PQIA buys another sample, not accept one from them.
I received a reply from Valvoline:
"Thank you very much for contacting Valvoline pertaining to your concern with the information provided by PQIA. Valvoline is extremely committed to the quality of our products and has become aware that PQIA has published an advisory on our Valvoline NextGen SAE 5W-20 Motor Oil. Based on multiple data points generated at the time of manufacture, the sample in question met all the requirements for an SAE 5W-20 API SN/Resource Conserving, ILSAC GF-5 engine oil. The varied testing results bring to light the industry concern with the ASTM test (D5800) used to measure lubricant volatility and it's inherent variability. It is this variability that we feel may explain the differences in the test results. We very much appreciate PQIA's service to our industry and are working with them to resolve the matter to their satisfaction.
Once again, we greatly appreciate you taking the time to contact us and if you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us.
Thank you and have a great day!!
Valvoline Product Support
Thank you,
Valvoline Product Support"
Sounds a lot like "the test is unfair, wah!". How come only this one oil was so far over 15%, twice? I hope PQIA buys another sample, not accept one from them.
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
I'm not sure if this was written with a little bit of sarcasm, but hasn't it typically been the opposite, or at least SAID to be the opposite: oils with high VI also often have a high volatility number?
Here's a refresher from the previous batch:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3192144/PQIA_Tests_5W-20_Motor_Oils
Originally Posted By: martinq
Interesting how the lightest -30C oil tested, and second highest VI, also has the lowest NOACK.
I'm not sure if this was written with a little bit of sarcasm, but hasn't it typically been the opposite, or at least SAID to be the opposite: oils with high VI also often have a high volatility number?
Here's a refresher from the previous batch:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3192144/PQIA_Tests_5W-20_Motor_Oils
Originally Posted By: martinq
Interesting how the lightest -30C oil tested, and second highest VI, also has the lowest NOACK.
Originally Posted By: nepadriver
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
I received a reply from Valvoline:
"Thank you very much for contacting Valvoline pertaining to your concern with the information provided by PQIA. Valvoline is extremely committed to the quality of our products and has become aware that PQIA has published an advisory on our Valvoline NextGen SAE 5W-20 Motor Oil. Based on multiple data points generated at the time of manufacture, the sample in question met all the requirements for an SAE 5W-20 API SN/Resource Conserving, ILSAC GF-5 engine oil. The varied testing results bring to light the industry concern with the ASTM test (D5800) used to measure lubricant volatility and it's inherent variability. It is this variability that we feel may explain the differences in the test results. We very much appreciate PQIA's service to our industry and are working with them to resolve the matter to their satisfaction.
Once again, we greatly appreciate you taking the time to contact us and if you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us.
Thank you and have a great day!!
Valvoline Product Support
Thank you,
Valvoline Product Support"
Sounds a lot like "the test is unfair, wah!". How come only this one oil was so far over 15%, twice? I hope PQIA buys another sample, not accept one from them.
Actually, Valvoline is reasonable. If there is a high variability in the testing method, the only real way to ensure reliable results is to do a lot of test. While it is not good for Valvoline, the sample is too small to really get worrisome. If PQIA did hundreds... or at least 70 test from different locations, it would be a lot better.
Spot checking is good but not definitive.
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
I received a reply from Valvoline:
"Thank you very much for contacting Valvoline pertaining to your concern with the information provided by PQIA. Valvoline is extremely committed to the quality of our products and has become aware that PQIA has published an advisory on our Valvoline NextGen SAE 5W-20 Motor Oil. Based on multiple data points generated at the time of manufacture, the sample in question met all the requirements for an SAE 5W-20 API SN/Resource Conserving, ILSAC GF-5 engine oil. The varied testing results bring to light the industry concern with the ASTM test (D5800) used to measure lubricant volatility and it's inherent variability. It is this variability that we feel may explain the differences in the test results. We very much appreciate PQIA's service to our industry and are working with them to resolve the matter to their satisfaction.
Once again, we greatly appreciate you taking the time to contact us and if you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us.
Thank you and have a great day!!
Valvoline Product Support
Thank you,
Valvoline Product Support"
Sounds a lot like "the test is unfair, wah!". How come only this one oil was so far over 15%, twice? I hope PQIA buys another sample, not accept one from them.
Actually, Valvoline is reasonable. If there is a high variability in the testing method, the only real way to ensure reliable results is to do a lot of test. While it is not good for Valvoline, the sample is too small to really get worrisome. If PQIA did hundreds... or at least 70 test from different locations, it would be a lot better.
Spot checking is good but not definitive.
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