Tractor fluid in a TH350

[Callies_Kustoms]

Hey everyone,

I'm going to run tractor transmission fluid in my TH350 this year. Basically the idea is, its a higher quality version of type F and the transmission will hook up better. Many drag racers use the John Deere HY-GUARD and Low Viscosity version. The Low Viscosity version is the one i'm interested in.

The Low Viscosity HY-GUARD is supposed to loosen up the torque converter 3-400 rpms and lock up better. However the specs show a flash point of only 180c. The standard HY-GUARD shows a flash point of 227c. I'm a little worried it may be an inferior product. The Chevron version "Arctic Drive Train Fluid" shows about the same viscosity but with a 244c flashpoint. Input would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[Rand]

thats 356F, I dont think its a inferior product, however it is formulated for use in tractor hydraulic systems(including transmission) I doubt they are getting over 300F

On the other hand if your transmission gets to 350F is it not going to melt down?

 

[Callies_Kustoms]

I am just figuring the higher flashpoint product is made with better base oils. Maybe it will never actually be an issue?

 

[FL_Rob]

I've used Napa tractor hydraulic,this is ISO 32 which really reduced the stall speed, so I went with 50/50 Dex VI and it worked great but this hyd fluid is not friction modified so the clutch packs grab better and really tightens up the trans.Line pressure went up also.

 

[Highline9]

I run the walmart tractor fluid in hyundai and jeep. I would run the standard hy guard. Or the walmart. Great choice of fluid. Transmission feel so much better with tractor fluid over atf.

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:
Basically the idea is, its a higher quality version of type F and the transmission will hook up better. Many drag racers use the John Deere HY-GUARD and Low Viscosity version. The Low Viscosity version is the one i'm interested in.


Who said it is a higher quality version of type F ATF?


Define, "Hook up better."

ATF and the hydraulic fluids are two entirely different formulations.

There at least two racing ATFs that would be better:

Amsoil Supershift Type F

If you want a low viscosity racing ATF then the Redline below is the one:

Redline Low Vis Racing http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=137&pcid=9

 

[Callies_Kustoms]

Who said it is a higher quality version of type F ATF?

Judging from the specs and talking to some racers who have burnt up standard type F and have not burned up Tractor fluid with the same setup.

I'm not going to be using Amsoil or Redline since its about 4 times the cost.

 

[Shannow]

Tractor Fluids like Agri424 (Mobil) state that they carry Dexron and Type F characteristics, but not to use them in passenger cars...

http://www.ulei-mobil.ro/pdf/MobilAutoDataSheet/Agri Fluid 424 pds.pdf

A lot of rodders are using it in Powerglides and 3 speeds to tighten up a torque converter that they ordered too high a stall.

 

[Whitewolf]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Quote:
Basically the idea is, its a higher quality version of type F and the transmission will hook up better. Many drag racers use the John Deere HY-GUARD and Low Viscosity version. The Low Viscosity version is the one i'm interested in.


Who said it is a higher quality version of type F ATF?


Define, "Hook up better."

ATF and the hydraulic fluids are two entirely different formulations.

There at least two racing ATFs that would be better:

Amsoil Supershift Type F

If you want a low viscosity racing ATF then the Redline below is the one:

Redline Low Vis Racing http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=137&pcid=9

I was wondering that!

 

[Whitewolf]

Now that I have thought about it maybe we could have given a better explanation. I think that you and I are on the same planet but I'm not sure that everyone else understands what we are talking about some of the time.
Let's try. Type F fluid is not heavily friction modified and therefore displays what we would call a negative friction slope. In other words the static friction is higher than the dynamic.
UTTOs (Universal Tractor Transmission Oils) tend to need a lower static friction than dynamic friction towards lock up (positive friction slope)in order to try to avoid brake shudder and associated noise.
Any of you that have ever driven a tractor will appreciate the sometimes hitting 120 dB at the end of a run is not fun and after an hour or so quite stressful not to mention the potential hearing loss risk.
When it comes to friction though one has to understand that it is difficult to make sweeping statements since the friction characteristic displayed is a function of not only the fluid but also the friction material and the reaction surface.

 

[MolaKule]

Here is a another explanation:

ATF Friction Modification

What we're saying is if you draw a graph of the coefficient of friction on the vertical scale, Mu(u) verses the RPM of relative rotating surfaces, (v), you will see a curve with different slopes for Type F and the other fluids which determines how much torque is transferred at various rpms.

Type F is best for racing because of the solid and quick transfer of torque when the clutches engage.

In my view, using a hydraulic fluid to compensate for some torque converter mis-specification is not good engineering.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: FL_Rob
I've used Napa tractor hydraulic,this is ISO 32 which really reduced the stall speed, so I went with 50/50 Dex VI and it worked great but this hyd fluid is not friction modified so the clutch packs grab better and really tightens up the trans.Line pressure went up also.


All fluids have some friction modification but they use different friction modification chemistries which will react differently.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: Callies_Kustoms
Who said it is a higher quality version of type F ATF?

Judging from the specs and talking to some racers who have burnt up standard type F and have not burned up Tractor fluid with the same setup.


Do you mean to say the fluid caught fire?

They may have been using a mineral oil-based type F which is inferior to synthetic type F formulations in racing applications.

Quote:
I'm not going to be using Amsoil or Redline since its about 4 times the cost.


SO how much does a rebuilt tranny cost? Sounds like a situation where these guys are shooting their feet in order to run faster.