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#3242744 - 01/09/14 11:15 AM AC Delco "Check Valve"
Peted Offline


Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 487
Loc: jupiter, florida
Hello, my truck, 2009 Sierra, is at the dealer for bad lifters. I have diagnosed the sound and even found the TSB on the issue where bad lifters were installed on various 5.3's from 2007-2011. I understand many vehicles have a tick sound. Mine has two ticks, the normal tick and the loud tick within the engine at start up. From listening to multiple videos my sound is clearly bad lifters and fits the TSB description perfectly. TSB #10-06-01-007B. I have attached the TSB PDF for your curiosity.

I had a Pennzoil Ultra filter on my truck. There is no mention of using only AC Delco parts in the manual. Only Dexos approved oils and such. As long as the filter is the recommended filter for said vehicle and not a knock off, then it is OK to use the filter.

Dealer said that the issue was with my Ultra filter because it does not have a "check valve." I have a saved voice mail saying that when my engine is shut off, the Ultra filter does not let oil fall back into the filter, thus causing the noise. Where as this AC Delco filter with the check valve allows the oil to fall back into the filter.

Which is odd because every time I change my oil filter it is completely full of oil.

Part numbers:
-these filters are the recommended filters for my vehicle-

Ultra: XG10060
AC Delco: PF48

I have seen cut-up filters of both the PF48 and Ultra filters. There is a core/mesh material, filter media, and an anti-drain back valve. Perhaps this ADV is what they were referring too?

As far as I understand this is nothing but a ploy to deny my warranty work and blame the filter. Which, without evidence, is against Federal law according to the Magnuson-Moss Act.

The dealership also wants to charge me $15.00 for the filter. Again, according to the Magnuson-Moss act they can not say a certain brand part has to be used, Unless they supply the parts free of charge. My truck is still at the dealer and I am planning on speaking to the service manager.

What is every one's opinions on the matter?

Is there such thing as a check-valve?

Thank you for your posts and time!

EDIT: It appears I can not attach a PDF. Here is a direct link to the PDF download. Thank you.

TSB #10-06-01-007B


Edited by Peted (01/09/14 11:19 AM)
_________________________
2003 Land Rover Discovery II- deceased
2006 Ford F150 Lariat 4x4- sold
2011 Chevrolet Camaro LS3- sold
2009 GMC Sierra 1500 4x4

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#3242754 - 01/09/14 11:32 AM Re: AC Delco "Check Valve" [Re: Peted]
Danno Online   content


Registered: 10/07/12
Posts: 801
Loc: Northern Ontario, Canada
A couple of thoughts.
The Fram cerainly has the check valve which is another name for ADBV (anti drain back valve).
I don't understand the $15 filter change question. If they want to charge $15 for the filter to prove that the filter causes the issue or not, I would go with the flow as the end result is what you want - to have the lifters changed out under warranty.
Make an offer that if the OEM AC-Delco filter does not correct the issue, that they eat the cost.

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#3242767 - 01/09/14 11:54 AM Re: AC Delco "Check Valve" [Re: Danno]
Peted Offline


Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 487
Loc: jupiter, florida
Okay thank you for your input. I will consider that offer. I was only stating how under the Magnuson-Moss Act a dealership can not deny a warranty claim because you are not using their parts, unless they can provide evidence that your part is the issue. Apologies for the confusion.

Yes, the changing of the lifters is what I want. Problem is, I only have a couple months left of warranty. I do not want to waste time playing these games with the dealership. *sigh*
_________________________
2003 Land Rover Discovery II- deceased
2006 Ford F150 Lariat 4x4- sold
2011 Chevrolet Camaro LS3- sold
2009 GMC Sierra 1500 4x4

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#3242769 - 01/09/14 11:55 AM Re: AC Delco "Check Valve" [Re: Peted]
sayjac Online   content


Registered: 10/13/08
Posts: 8228
Loc: The Old North State
Wow, 'if' I'm reading your post correctly seems like the stealership is shining you on with a bogus explanation.

I'm assuming by 'check valve' the dealer means adbv. If your truck spec's an adbv (only very rarely not the case) I'd be willing to say now the Ultra XG10060 has an adbv.

According to the Fram look up linked below, it not only does it spec an adbv but also an integral filter bypass.

http://www.framcatalog.com/PartDetail.aspx?b=F&pn=XG10060

Stealers love to blame the easiest target they can find, in this the non oem Ultra filter is an easy target.

Quote:
..I have a saved voice mail saying that when my engine is shut off, the Ultra filter does not let oil fall back into the filter, thus causing the noise. Where as this AC Delco filter with the check valve allows the oil to fall back into the filter.

If that is the exact explanation that's pretty funny as it makes no sense in describing the function of an adbv.

Good luck dealing with stealer, but get as knowledgeable as you can about the filter. If you let them pull the Ultra tell them you want it and then proceed to show them the Ultra's red/orange silicone adbv (check valve) visible through the inlet holes. Then have them pay for the ACDelco.

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#3242780 - 01/09/14 12:06 PM Re: AC Delco "Check Valve" [Re: sayjac]
Peted Offline


Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 487
Loc: jupiter, florida
Yes my truck specs an ADBV. I was just about to post the product page for the XG10060 ha. You beat me to it.

I have had trouble with this dealership before. I purchased a Camaro from them with factory installed aftermarket exhaust. I tracked my car and according to the manual, if you track your car you need to change the rear diff fluid at 5000mi. Problem was the exhaust the dearlership installed physically blocked the drain nut. I could not fit a wrench between the exahaust pipe and the nut. The dealer told me that I do not need to change the fluid until 100,000mi and that it is OK. I eventually spoke to the service manager who had a local muffler shop adjust the exhaust on the dealerships dime.

I agree, the non-oem filter was an easy target. Did not even think of putting in an AC Delco. Thought it would be a non issue. My mistake indeed.

Yep, that is nearly word-for-word of what my service rep told me through the voice mail.

Oh, great part is, they already pulled the Ultra filter and told me I owned them the $15.00. Did not even ask for my approval. Went in for bad lifters with TSB in hand and get a voice mail saying an oil filter change fixed the problem and that I owe them $15.00.
_________________________
2003 Land Rover Discovery II- deceased
2006 Ford F150 Lariat 4x4- sold
2011 Chevrolet Camaro LS3- sold
2009 GMC Sierra 1500 4x4

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#3242836 - 01/09/14 01:21 PM Re: AC Delco "Check Valve" [Re: Peted]
eljefino Offline


Registered: 06/15/03
Posts: 24168
Loc: ME
If $15 is all you pay for this you still win. Let them set their trap, where they are basically admitting to you that they do in fact hear a noise.

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#3242849 - 01/09/14 01:34 PM Re: AC Delco "Check Valve" [Re: Peted]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 7418
Loc: PNW
Originally Posted By: Peted

Dealer said that the issue was with my Ultra filter because it does not have a "check valve." I have a saved voice mail saying that when my engine is shut off, the Ultra filter does not let oil fall back into the filter, thus causing the noise. Where as this AC Delco filter with the check valve allows the oil to fall back into the filter.


Dealer is smoking something, as sayjac already eluded to. The Ultra has an ADBV. Did you get the old filter back from the dealer?

That Ultra filter probably has a better ADBV than the AC Delco filter has. The service manager (or whoever left you the voice mail) has no clue on what he's talking about. An ADBV does not "allow the oil to fall back into the filter", as he has said. It's actually the opposite of what he's trying to say. The ADBV prevents the oiling system from draining back into the oil pan due to gravity when the engine is shut off.

Let them run the Service Bulletin test for the start-up noise after you have verified it still has the start-up noise with the AC Delco filter (I'm betting the noise will still be there). If it does still make noise, and they verify that, then they have to replace the lifters under warranty as the Service Bulletin says. Tell them that, and make it very clear that if there is any start-up ticking with the AC Delco filter, you need new lifters.

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#3242864 - 01/09/14 01:43 PM Re: AC Delco "Check Valve" [Re: Peted]
Danno Online   content


Registered: 10/07/12
Posts: 801
Loc: Northern Ontario, Canada
Hyundai vehicles have had all kinds of noises by not using an OEM filter. Probably something to do with oil pressure allowed by OEM vs non-OEM filters.
If the $15 oil filter change did the job, I would say it was a rather inexpensive fix all around.

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#3242874 - 01/09/14 01:53 PM Re: AC Delco "Check Valve" [Re: Peted]
jeepman3071 Offline


Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 1759
Loc: Storrs, Connecticut
Interesting how when you are still within the warranty period they claim a $15 filter fixed the issue. I'm sure if it was out of warranty you would need an entire engine.
_________________________
2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport 4.0L (147k) - PYB 10w30, Napa Silver 31085, Magnefine trans filter

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#3242882 - 01/09/14 01:56 PM Re: AC Delco "Check Valve" [Re: Peted]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 7418
Loc: PNW
Note that the Service Bulletin (linked in the OPs 1st post) doesn't even mention anything associated with an oil filter as a possible cause. It says:

Aerated oil in the valve lifter body, resulting in the valve lifter being unable to purge the air quickly.
A low engine oil level or incorrect oil viscosity.
Dirty or contaminated oil.
A low internal valve lifter oil reservoir level.
Debris in the valve lifter.
A high valve lifter leak down rate.
_________________________
A filter's brand name doesn't matter ... what's inside does.

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#3242886 - 01/09/14 02:00 PM Re: AC Delco "Check Valve" [Re: Peted]
Danno Online   content


Registered: 10/07/12
Posts: 801
Loc: Northern Ontario, Canada
Let's let Peted tell us if the noise has been eliminated or not once he has had a chance to drive the truck.

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#3242896 - 01/09/14 02:06 PM Re: AC Delco "Check Valve" [Re: Peted]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 7418
Loc: PNW
^^^ My bet is the noise doesn't change with the AC Delco filter. That Fram Ultra flows better, and has a better ADBV than the AC Delco filter.

Only way that might not be true is if there was a major problem with that Ultra filter (which I doubt). That's why I asked if he got the Ultra back from the dealer so he might consider cutting it open for an inspection.

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#3242988 - 01/09/14 03:26 PM Re: AC Delco "Check Valve" [Re: Peted]
stchman Offline


Registered: 09/25/13
Posts: 517
Loc: St. Louis, MO
On my 2013 Silverado I normally run AC Delco PF48 oil filters, but I am currently using a Fram Ultra XG10060 and have noticed a slight tick upon start up. The tick has been here since the temperature has dropped (it has been VERY cold here in St. Louis).

I have never noticed the tick when using an AC Delco oil filter.
_________________________
2013 Chevrolet Silverado LTZ 2WD 5.3L
Mobil 1 5W-30
AC Delco PF48

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#3242990 - 01/09/14 03:26 PM Re: AC Delco "Check Valve" [Re: ZeeOSix]
sayjac Online   content


Registered: 10/13/08
Posts: 8228
Loc: The Old North State
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Note that the Service Bulletin (linked in the OPs 1st post) doesn't even mention anything associated with an oil filter as a possible cause. It says:

Aerated oil in the valve lifter body, resulting in the valve lifter being unable to purge the air quickly.
A low engine oil level or incorrect oil viscosity.
Dirty or contaminated oil.
A low internal valve lifter oil reservoir level.
Debris in the valve lifter.
A high valve lifter leak down rate.

Correct, read that myself before posting and nowhere is there a mention of any aftermarket filter issues. As Zee says, only way imo it's the Ultra is if it's somehow defective, which I also doubt. Too bad the OP doesn't have the filter to post.

My guess without looking at the ACDelco is it uses a nitrile adbv as opposed to the higher quality silicone adbv used on the Ultra. And there's Ultra's synthetic media vs cellulose for the ACDelco.

All that aside though, the dealer saying the Ultra didn't have an adbv (check valve), I'm willing to say now was untrue.

Bottom line imo, dealer "check valve" explanation doesn't pass the smell test.

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#3243011 - 01/09/14 03:53 PM Re: AC Delco "Check Valve" [Re: stchman]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 7418
Loc: PNW
Originally Posted By: stchman
I have never noticed the tick when using an AC Delco oil filter.


But have you used the AC Delco filter under the same temperature conditions?

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