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#3241906 - 01/08/14 02:20 PM Re: Troubling UOA [Re: MolaKule]
rhhsiao Offline


Registered: 01/13/12
Posts: 116
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
Quote:

Did coolant somehow get in the oil? The K+ is lower but was really high initially.


Saw that but the glycol test is 0. Wonder if that is a valid test for VW coolant.


The big question is, why is the Potassium trending downward?

Did the FF oil contain a lot of Potassium agent?

What does the VOA of this current oil show in terms of Potassium?



The first few UOAs of the common rail diesels from VW all tend to show high potassium. I believe it's from the EGR system or the use of a welding flux.

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#3242039 - 01/08/14 04:41 PM Re: Troubling UOA [Re: JMarshall]
JMarshall Offline


Registered: 01/07/14
Posts: 8
Loc: NW PA
What does anyone think of the plan of pulling a sample through the dipstick tube @ 4500 miles and seeing how it looks then?

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#3242046 - 01/08/14 04:44 PM Re: Troubling UOA [Re: demarpaint]
JMarshall Offline


Registered: 01/07/14
Posts: 8
Loc: NW PA
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
10K OCI is too long, forget the owners manual, cut the interval in half and see how thing pan out. Just out of curiosity do you have an OLM? If so how long before it triggers an OCI?


It doesn't have oil life sensors like say a GM product. It has a service indicator that comes on after a set mileage/time regardless of driving habit/etc

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#3242103 - 01/08/14 05:27 PM Re: Troubling UOA [Re: JMarshall]
gathermewool Online   content


Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 3565
Loc: CT
Originally Posted By: JMarshall
What does anyone think of the plan of pulling a sample through the dipstick tube @ 4500 miles and seeing how it looks then?


I'd say just drain it, obtaining a sample midway through. If money is an issue, then do a couple of shorter (5-6k) OCI's without sampling, and then send out a sample of the third drain for analysis. The reason I suggest this, is because residual wear-like metals will still be present from previous intervals, so even if the oil looks fine after this run to 4,500 miles, the "wear" metals may erroneously appear alarmingly high. They should, however, trend downward due to dilution, the end of break-in, and less run time.

Also, remember that most diesel guys that I've talked to (note, I am NOT a diesel guy) don't consider their engines broken in until well after a gasser would be.


Edited by gathermewool (01/08/14 05:28 PM)
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#3242111 - 01/08/14 05:34 PM Re: Troubling UOA [Re: gathermewool]
JMarshall Offline


Registered: 01/07/14
Posts: 8
Loc: NW PA
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: JMarshall
What does anyone think of the plan of pulling a sample through the dipstick tube @ 4500 miles and seeing how it looks then?


I'd say just drain it, obtaining a sample midway through. If money is an issue, then do a couple of shorter (5-6k) OCI's without sampling, and then send out a sample of the third drain for analysis. The reason I suggest this, is because residual wear-like metals will still be present from previous intervals, so even if the oil looks fine after this run to 4,500 miles, the "wear" metals may erroneously appear alarmingly high. They should, however, trend downward due to dilution, the end of break-in, and less run time.

Also, remember that most diesel guys that I've talked to (note, I am NOT a diesel guy) don't consider their engines broken in until well after a gasser would be.


These engines normally aren't "broken in" and hit their peak compression numbers until ~60K miles. So you would just change it a couple times without sampling? Money isn't really an issue. My thought was at 4500 miles, if this high number was a fluke from catching oil out of the bottom of the pan, etc, that sampling at 4500 would allow me to still run the oil if it is in good shape, or change it out if need be.

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#3242131 - 01/08/14 05:57 PM Re: Troubling UOA [Re: JMarshall]
rhhsiao Offline


Registered: 01/13/12
Posts: 116
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Originally Posted By: JMarshall
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: JMarshall
What does anyone think of the plan of pulling a sample through the dipstick tube @ 4500 miles and seeing how it looks then?


I'd say just drain it, obtaining a sample midway through. If money is an issue, then do a couple of shorter (5-6k) OCI's without sampling, and then send out a sample of the third drain for analysis. The reason I suggest this, is because residual wear-like metals will still be present from previous intervals, so even if the oil looks fine after this run to 4,500 miles, the "wear" metals may erroneously appear alarmingly high. They should, however, trend downward due to dilution, the end of break-in, and less run time.

Also, remember that most diesel guys that I've talked to (note, I am NOT a diesel guy) don't consider their engines broken in until well after a gasser would be.


These engines normally aren't "broken in" and hit their peak compression numbers until ~60K miles. So you would just change it a couple times without sampling? Money isn't really an issue. My thought was at 4500 miles, if this high number was a fluke from catching oil out of the bottom of the pan, etc, that sampling at 4500 would allow me to still run the oil if it is in good shape, or change it out if need be.


I personally like this idea of sampling mid-run from the dipstick. There definitely could also be the possibility of contamination if you were getting samples from the bottom. I personally have a suspicion the oil itself is fine but a combo of break-in wear, biodiesel, cold weather starts, and hard driving are giving you wear numbers that look bad this early in the life of the engine. But what do I know? It's all really conjecture at this point anyway.

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#3242175 - 01/08/14 06:50 PM Re: Troubling UOA [Re: JMarshall]
gathermewool Online   content


Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 3565
Loc: CT
More data is always better, so if you don't mind, we'd all love to see a sample at ~4,500 miles. If the results trend downward, then you can decide what your interval should be, based on how steep the trend is.

I wouldn't assume the numbers from the most recent analysis are bad - trust your indications. That doesn't mean to trust them blindly, which is why your verification sample isn't a bad idea at all. Worst case is, you drain the oil as soon as you receive the analysis results.
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#3242344 - 01/08/14 09:30 PM Re: Troubling UOA [Re: JMarshall]
Radiation_Joe Offline


Registered: 10/08/12
Posts: 23
Loc: PA
10k miles is not an unusual interval for an oil change on the current TDI diesels. There is certainly something else going on here. The VW TDIs don't perform forced regens of the the particulate filters so an excess of fuel in the oil is an indication of a fuel injection problem. I would take the car back to the dealer and ask them to confirm the injectors are performing properly.
What kind of fuel mileage are you getting? A current TDI should be seeing 30+ mpg city and nearly 40 on the highway at the least.


Edited by Radiation_Joe (01/08/14 09:31 PM)

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#3242523 - 01/09/14 06:58 AM Re: Troubling UOA [Re: Radiation_Joe]
JMarshall Offline


Registered: 01/07/14
Posts: 8
Loc: NW PA
I will pull a sample at 4500 and see what happens.

Originally Posted By: Radiation_Joe
10k miles is not an unusual interval for an oil change on the current TDI diesels. There is certainly something else going on here. The VW TDIs don't perform forced regens of the the particulate filters so an excess of fuel in the oil is an indication of a fuel injection problem. I would take the car back to the dealer and ask them to confirm the injectors are performing properly.
What kind of fuel mileage are you getting? A current TDI should be seeing 30+ mpg city and nearly 40 on the highway at the least.


I am getting the same mileage I always have, 33-35 in the city and 43 on the highway.

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#3245502 - 01/12/14 01:21 AM Re: Troubling UOA [Re: JMarshall]
A_Harman Offline


Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 4222
Loc: Michigan
Aluminum, Copper, and Potassium have been trending down since new.
Chromium has been steady.
Iron jumped in the last UOA, along with the fuel.
The KV100 is borderline 20-weight.
The flashpoint is 50F lower than the last UOA.
The Castrol SLX 5w30 looks weak in both anti-wear and detergency.

Go to a thicker oil with higher anti-wear and shorten the OCI.
Since your car has a particulate trap, M1 5w40 ESP Formula M on a 5000 mile drain may be good.
Since the fuel dilution just started, I would take the UOA result to the VW dealer, get the issue on the record, and see if there is anything they can do about it.


Edited by A_Harman (01/12/14 01:30 AM)
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#3245571 - 01/12/14 07:29 AM Re: Troubling UOA [Re: JMarshall]
Wilhelm_D Offline


Registered: 01/28/09
Posts: 818
Loc: Tacoma, WA
Originally Posted By: JMarshall
Latest UOA for my 2.0 CR Jetta TDI. Thoughts?


There have been some other UOAs for this same oil:

Jetta TDI 10302 miles

Jetta TDI 10183 miles

Jetta TDI 6934 miles

all of which show some of the same things your TDI is showing.

If it were mine I would try Mobil 1 ESP Formula M 5W-40 or Amsoil European Car Formula 5W-40 Synthetic Motor Oil with a 6,000 mile interval and see if the numbers improve.

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