Periodically starting a car in cold weather.

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Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
Fuel dilution. Added wear and tear. What a joke. Some of you are slaves to your vehicle instead of the other way around. I'll let mine idle overnight if that's what I gotta do to get in a warm vehicle and be comfortable.


I'm sorry that a scientific discussion upsets you so much. We have an "expert" suggesting that cars should be started every 5 to 6 hours in order to keep the battery warm enough to start up the next time. This of course, is bogus. Furthermore, doing that will actually cause more harm than good due to the things listed. Lastly, this thread has zero to do with an occupants comfort or warmth in their vehicle on a cold morning.
 
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Originally Posted By: spackard
In Kelly's Heroes, Oddball mentions it's routine for the Germans to run the Tiger tanks' engines for 20 minutes every few hours to keep them warm.
Maybe the news writer is a fan?


[censored] in the mid 80's it was stil the SOP in the 8th ID to have a crew in the motorpool every 2 hours to do just that if the ambient temp was below zero.
 
All this no idling is borderline idiotic...

Police forces will idle a vehicle ALL day at construction sites, accidents, etc and often rack up 6-8K hours or more(Ford claims each idle hour is equal to 33 miles)...I have seen retired Crown Vicks with serious idle time, yet they are snapped up by the taxi companys and generally rack up another 250-300K miles...

I've seen a two year old CV with 23K miles and over 1300 idle hours...
 
Originally Posted By: TFB1
All this no idling is borderline idiotic...

Police forces will idle a vehicle ALL day at construction sites, accidents, etc and often rack up 6-8K hours or more(Ford claims each idle hour is equal to 33 miles)...I have seen retired Crown Vicks with serious idle time, yet they are snapped up by the taxi companys and generally rack up another 250-300K miles...

I've seen a two year old CV with 23K miles and over 1300 idle hours...



Good points, but lets now introduce direct injection into the picture?
 
Originally Posted By: RamFan
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
Fuel dilution. Added wear and tear. What a joke. Some of you are slaves to your vehicle instead of the other way around. I'll let mine idle overnight if that's what I gotta do to get in a warm vehicle and be comfortable.


I'm sorry that a scientific discussion upsets you so much. We have an "expert" suggesting that cars should be started every 5 to 6 hours in order to keep the battery warm enough to start up the next time. This of course, is bogus. Furthermore, doing that will actually cause more harm than good due to the things listed. Lastly, this thread has zero to do with an occupants comfort or warmth in their vehicle on a cold morning.



This from a guy who's coldest temps might hit -10f

Ever had a battery freeze solid. I have. Ever been outside in cold so bad a cup of water thrown from your front door freezes before it hits the ground,I have.
You do whatever you gotta do where you are k but don't even think for a moment you have the slightest,most minute clue of what is possible,and not possible in cold so bad your skin freezes in seconds,not minutes.
Once you actually experience that kind of cold then please by all means help inform your fellow man what you've learned,til then your not even a tourist and you know less than squat about cold boy.
 
Originally Posted By: TFB1
All this no idling is borderline idiotic...

Police forces will idle a vehicle ALL day at construction sites, accidents, etc and often rack up 6-8K hours or more(Ford claims each idle hour is equal to 33 miles)...I have seen retired Crown Vicks with serious idle time, yet they are snapped up by the taxi companys and generally rack up another 250-300K miles...

I've seen a two year old CV with 23K miles and over 1300 idle hours...



That's idling when warm though. When it's not running in cold start enrichment and the oil is thin enough to get decent splash onto the cylinder walls and such at idle it's not much of an issue. When the oil and coolant temps are lower, idling becomes more of an issue.

If there were going to be an overnight cold snap that was enough to make me worry about coolant freezing or something along those lines (-30* F or colder), I'd probably just leave the Jeep running unless I could park it indoors or add a block heater, etc. Other than burning a solid 3/4 gallon of gas every hour, I'd be less worried about that than starting it up every few hours.
 
Let me know when it gets scientific, will you?

More harm than good? Show me scientific evidence idling this way or other ways does harm instead of your personal opinion.
 
Total nonsense here by the ton.

When you shut off your engine condensation occurs inside it. It is exactly the same as your exhaust!

NO ONE who owns a car collection will tell you to periodically start the cars. I used to work for a gentleman with a ton of classics and the iron clad rule was simple: if you can't DRIVE it for at least 20-30 minutes then do not even touch the key!

Idling an already warmed modern engine is nearly wear free if everything is up to snuff. But idling a frozen one for a few minutes and then shutting it down will condense water into the oil and encourage the acids that eat engines alive!
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Total nonsense here by the ton.

NO ONE who owns a car collection will tell you to periodically start the cars. I used to work for a gentleman with a ton of classics and the iron clad rule was simple: if you can't DRIVE it for at least 20-30 minutes then do not even touch the key!

Idling an already warmed modern engine is nearly wear free if everything is up to snuff. But idling a frozen one for a few minutes and then shutting it down will condense water into the oil and encourage the acids that eat engines alive!


Exactly. If you don't plan on giving the car a good run, IMO at least 30 minutes when its cold, don't bother starting it. It's real easy to slowly kill something with kindness.
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Total nonsense here by the ton.

When you shut off your engine condensation occurs inside it. It is exactly the same as your exhaust!

NO ONE who owns a car collection will tell you to periodically start the cars. I used to work for a gentleman with a ton of classics and the iron clad rule was simple: if you can't DRIVE it for at least 20-30 minutes then do not even touch the key!

Idling an already warmed modern engine is nearly wear free if everything is up to snuff. But idling a frozen one for a few minutes and then shutting it down will condense water into the oil and encourage the acids that eat engines alive!

Yup but you will never convince some.
 
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: RamFan
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
Fuel dilution. Added wear and tear. What a joke. Some of you are slaves to your vehicle instead of the other way around. I'll let mine idle overnight if that's what I gotta do to get in a warm vehicle and be comfortable.


I'm sorry that a scientific discussion upsets you so much. We have an "expert" suggesting that cars should be started every 5 to 6 hours in order to keep the battery warm enough to start up the next time. This of course, is bogus. Furthermore, doing that will actually cause more harm than good due to the things listed. Lastly, this thread has zero to do with an occupants comfort or warmth in their vehicle on a cold morning.



This from a guy who's coldest temps might hit -10f

Ever had a battery freeze solid. I have. Ever been outside in cold so bad a cup of water thrown from your front door freezes before it hits the ground,I have.
You do whatever you gotta do where you are k but don't even think for a moment you have the slightest,most minute clue of what is possible,and not possible in cold so bad your skin freezes in seconds,not minutes.
Once you actually experience that kind of cold then please by all means help inform your fellow man what you've learned,til then your not even a tourist and you know less than squat about cold boy.


As usual you enlighten the board with your vast superiority and knowledge. P.S. -16*F was the temp.
 
You take the time to extend childish banter but offer no scientific evidence proving harm as a result of idling.

Any BITOG member worth his salt already has optimized engine oil for the expected climate. I'll go out on a limb and add that every member on this board has a vehicle in a higher state of tune as compared to their neighbors. I'll go out even further and say that most of us drive modern vehicles.

In that light, what's a few ppm extra emissions in the air? You expel more toxic gas out your rear than a little prolonged idling creates. Fuel dilution? Please. You act as though we all are using Holley Dominators. It's called computer controlled fuel injection. It's been around for a while; you may have heard of it. Acids? Please. How many members here admit to changing their oil at 3000 miles? Lots. And the ones that do extend their intervals know what they are doing, so once again, non-issue.

Our vehicles were built and purchased by us FOR us. We all take care of our investments. You will crash the vehicle or someone will crash into you long before the engine tires of your extended idling. By all means take care of your vehicle but don't be a slave to it. That's crazy! Not me. It was 2F this morning. After idling for about a half hour it was toasty warm and the windows were clear. As a result I was a safe and comfortable driver. The engine is running like a champ. Too bad I'll never see the destruction you predict.

P.S. Back on your topic, a couple weeks ago, I changed out a frozen battery for an elderly neighbor who has a vehicle that sits outside that he does not drive often. Maybe if he ran it once in a while he wouldn't have had to replace what for all intents was a brand new battery. The temperatures a couple weeks ago were nothing like now.

Originally Posted By: RamFan
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: RamFan
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
Fuel dilution. Added wear and tear. What a joke. Some of you are slaves to your vehicle instead of the other way around. I'll let mine idle overnight if that's what I gotta do to get in a warm vehicle and be comfortable.


I'm sorry that a scientific discussion upsets you so much. We have an "expert" suggesting that cars should be started every 5 to 6 hours in order to keep the battery warm enough to start up the next time. This of course, is bogus. Furthermore, doing that will actually cause more harm than good due to the things listed. Lastly, this thread has zero to do with an occupants comfort or warmth in their vehicle on a cold morning.



This from a guy who's coldest temps might hit -10f

Ever had a battery freeze solid. I have. Ever been outside in cold so bad a cup of water thrown from your front door freezes before it hits the ground,I have.
You do whatever you gotta do where you are k but don't even think for a moment you have the slightest,most minute clue of what is possible,and not possible in cold so bad your skin freezes in seconds,not minutes.
Once you actually experience that kind of cold then please by all means help inform your fellow man what you've learned,til then your not even a tourist and you know less than squat about cold boy.


As usual you enlighten the board with your vast superiority and knowledge. P.S. -16*F was the temp.
 
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So as I'm driving this morning after letting my truck idle for about 30 minutes (Nice and warm when I got in; it was great!) before I left and look at the tach. Ambient temperature was -6F. I'm driving 45 mph because of icy roads. My RPM was 1200. Low idle is 800. I have a factory oil cooler. The wind chill on the radiator and across the oil pan at 45 MPH would be off the chart.

It took 20 minutes to get where I was going. How is that any better than letting it idle? Can you tell me my oil was hot enough to cure itself of all the doomsday prophecy from idling? 91,000 trouble-free miles idling it for extended periods in the winter for heat and A/C in the summer. Where is the damage?

I drove by a used car lot and a couple of guys were out starting all the cars. RamFan would have had a heart attack seeing that! I should have stopped and told them to knock a grand off each price for letting the vehicles idle!

I have a friend who lives to fish. He throws his lines in the water then gets in his truck for the air or heat. He lets it idle at times for up to eight hours! I have not seen nor has he said that he has ever had problems.

This fear of idling is typical BITOG paranoia, period.
 
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
Fuel dilution? Please. You act as though we all are using Holley Dominators. It's called computer controlled fuel injection. It's been around for a while; you may have heard of it.


Fuel dilution........ How about 5%?

This was last January.

M5UOA01January2013.jpg


In some vehicles it can be a real issue. SteveSRT8's 300C also does a similar number on the oil.
 
I know right now I'm not changing anyone's mind but I "abuse" my cars with idling etc. I'm on BITOG to try to mitigate (but not eliminate) that abuse.

Do we say people abuse performance tires and they should get hard-as-rocks all-seasons then drive sedately? No! If someone wants to abuse and comfort themselves by idling their cars, let them.

I feel comfortable that my car will start at -25'F so I don't take any of these precautions. I have a magnetic block heater I leave on the shelf b/c it's a hassle. If I were at some cabin in the woods with no phone line, no backup car, and, uh, a sick kid, you bet I'd be firing up my car every few hours.

So this question is would you trade long-term reliability for short-term reliability, eg wear out your engine with fuel dilution to be sure it starts so you can go to work/ hospital/ somewhere important tomorrow? And are you REALLY that important?
 
What was the cause? Wasn't idling. Steve says he doesn't do that. Even more telling was the remarks, "...no excessive wear..."

It's already well established heating the oil up to normal temperature will NOT burn off fuel. If that report is from your vehicle I bet you changed the oil. Where is the problem? Where's the water in the oil?

My '11 CR-V has fuel of about 2% on every sample I sent in. Other than that, the engine appears to be not wearing at all. Where's the problem?

Nothing in that report would be worth it to me to be shivering like a fool while trying to drive in these temperatures. I'd rather be focused on the driving not praying for heat.
 
I answer yes. I am that important. The vehicle isn't. Odds are that it will get smashed, rusted, or I will simply get bored with it L-O-N-G before there is any measurable wear because of idling.

Doesn't every manufacturer offer as an option from the factory a remote start? Do you think the designers don't know people are going to use these remote starters to idle their vehicle for extended periods?

Are you that much of a slave to your vehicle that you will suffer in the cold to help preserve an engine that will outlast your interest in it? Not me. You also can not prove your statement about long-term reliability as a result of idling
 
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
What was the cause? Wasn't idling. Steve says he doesn't do that. Even more telling was the remarks, "...no excessive wear..."


Certainly, I wasn't implying that wear was excessive or anything of that ilk. I don't idle the car much (it has heated seats that warm quickly), just usually for the time it takes the clear off the windows and the idle to settle.

The cause is the factory tune of the car. It has high compression and a relatively rich fuel map. Add that with cold winter operation where cold start enrichment is added to the mix and voila! We have 5% fuel, LOL
smile.gif


Quote:
It's already well established heating the oil up to normal temperature will NOT burn off fuel. If that report is from your vehicle I bet you changed the oil. Where is the problem? Where's the water in the oil?


Yes, I changed the oil. And it was well before the OLM (which still hasn't gone off BTW) wanted me to.

Quote:
My '11 CR-V has fuel of about 2% on every sample I sent in. Other than that, the engine appears to be not wearing at all. Where's the problem?

Nothing in that report would be worth it to me to be shivering like a fool while trying to drive in these temperatures. I'd rather be focused on the driving not praying for heat.


The point of showing this report was simply to demonstrate that the potential for significant fuel dilution still exists in a fuel injected engine, particularly those of the high performance variety with richer fuel maps. You don't need a Holley Dominator to get a good dose of fuel in the oil
wink.gif
 
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