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#3241209 - 01/07/14 09:39 PM Re: Troubling UOA [Re: JMarshall]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 9777
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Try an hdeo. Or M1 0w-40.
Devlac makes a 0w-30 syn hdeo called devlac elite 222. I love the stuff.
Devlac also has a 0w-40 that is very stout too. I believe you need a stronger/thicker oil film since by looking at the report there is enough metal to make a jailhouse shiv
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#3241224 - 01/07/14 10:02 PM Re: Troubling UOA [Re: Clevy]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 12725
Loc: Chicago, IL
Originally Posted By: Clevy

Devlac makes a 0w-30 syn hdeo called devlac elite 222. I love the stuff.
Devlac also has a 0w-40 that is very stout too. I believe you need a stronger/thicker oil film since by looking at the report there is enough metal to make a jailhouse shiv



We can't get that stuff in the US.
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#3241230 - 01/07/14 10:08 PM Re: Troubling UOA [Re: JMarshall]
2004tdigls Offline


Registered: 10/31/11
Posts: 298
Loc: maple ridge, bc
if your car has the dpf and egr on the car you MUST use a low ash engine oil or the particulate filter will plug in short order

as others have suggested cut your OCI in half to 5000 miles and take a sample.

My dad used to say "oil is cheap, engines are expensive, so change your oil often and never change your engine"

I suggest you try this oil

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_ESP_Formula_M_5W-40.aspx

although it does not meet VW 507, it is a low ash oil

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#3241235 - 01/07/14 10:10 PM Re: Troubling UOA [Re: JMarshall]
ram_man Offline


Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 2573
Loc: southern mo
Originally Posted By: JMarshall
Originally Posted By: ls1mike
What is cheaper? An engine or a couple of extra oil changes a year. I would not go 10K.


Definitely the oil. If I'm sitting on a ticking time bomb though, I want to trade it in before [censored] hits the fan.

Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
I don't know squat, but I'd do what B-S suggests; if a 5K interval produces 1/4 the wear...

I'd try to establish whether the wear is linear, or geometric etc.


Will do a couple shorter OCIs and see what it does.

Originally Posted By: volk06
Your engine has only had 3 oil changes in 30K. Thats about 3-5 less OCIs than the average person. While your wear is high its due to the long OCIs and the engine breaking in. If you want to see if you can get lower wear, do a few short OCIs and then sample. That oil looks WEAK as well. What oil is specified for this engine? It looks like it needs to move up to M1 0w40 if that is an approved oil. I'm assuming this is a diesel engine?


This is a 2011 VW Jetta TDI. I am running both the 10K mile oil changes specified by VW, as well as the Castrol SLX Pro LLO3 full synthetic 5W-30 that is both specified and factory.

Originally Posted By: spasm3
Did coolant somehow get in the oil? The K+ is lower but was really high initially.


I have had no coolant loss or leakage.

Originally Posted By: ram_man
3,000 mile oci never hurt anyone.


Actually, multiple UOAs have found that shorter intervals can actually increase wear in these VW TDIs


Funny you mention that when your engine is wearing the way it is. You show me one engine that failed because of 3,000 oil changes and ill back off my point. Just because a bunch of lab coat wearing scientist's say something doesn't mean its true. Ive seen uoa be very inconsistent with what they should be. Also werent scientists the same people who said pluto wasnt a planet and then it was and then it wasnt again? Like I said 3000 oci never hurt anyone.
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#3241258 - 01/07/14 10:42 PM Re: Troubling UOA [Re: JMarshall]
Bandito440 Offline


Registered: 02/13/12
Posts: 2853
Loc: The County of Dr. Moreau
Yikes. That's certainly not our typically boring UOA. I would get a baseline at 3,000 and see what's happening from there. 10,000 is obviously too long for your driving habits by a long shot.

Is this thing under warranty? I'd probably consider Pennzoil Euro 5w-40 or Mobil 1 0w-40, or a synthetic HDEO like Rotella T6 if warranty isn't an issue. I would only be concerned about the DPF if you're burning a considerable amount of oil.
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#3241275 - 01/07/14 11:05 PM Re: Troubling UOA [Re: JMarshall]
Brybo86 Offline


Registered: 10/08/11
Posts: 1750
Loc: Chicago, IL
I would contact vw and ask to speak with or have an engineer see these results
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#3241280 - 01/07/14 11:17 PM Re: Troubling UOA [Re: JMarshall]
Bandito440 Offline


Registered: 02/13/12
Posts: 2853
Loc: The County of Dr. Moreau
One other note: if there is a severe service schedule in your owners manual, that's definitely where you need to be. 70% aggressive city driving does not a long OCI make.
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#3241295 - 01/07/14 11:37 PM Re: Troubling UOA [Re: ram_man]
gathermewool Online   content


Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 4507
Loc: New England
Originally Posted By: ram_man
Originally Posted By: JMarshall
Originally Posted By: ls1mike
What is cheaper? An engine or a couple of extra oil changes a year. I would not go 10K.


Definitely the oil. If I'm sitting on a ticking time bomb though, I want to trade it in before [censored] hits the fan.

Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
I don't know squat, but I'd do what B-S suggests; if a 5K interval produces 1/4 the wear...

I'd try to establish whether the wear is linear, or geometric etc.


Will do a couple shorter OCIs and see what it does.

Originally Posted By: volk06
Your engine has only had 3 oil changes in 30K. Thats about 3-5 less OCIs than the average person. While your wear is high its due to the long OCIs and the engine breaking in. If you want to see if you can get lower wear, do a few short OCIs and then sample. That oil looks WEAK as well. What oil is specified for this engine? It looks like it needs to move up to M1 0w40 if that is an approved oil. I'm assuming this is a diesel engine?


This is a 2011 VW Jetta TDI. I am running both the 10K mile oil changes specified by VW, as well as the Castrol SLX Pro LLO3 full synthetic 5W-30 that is both specified and factory.

Originally Posted By: spasm3
Did coolant somehow get in the oil? The K+ is lower but was really high initially.


I have had no coolant loss or leakage.

Originally Posted By: ram_man
3,000 mile oci never hurt anyone.


Actually, multiple UOAs have found that shorter intervals can actually increase wear in these VW TDIs


Funny you mention that when your engine is wearing the way it is. You show me one engine that failed because of 3,000 oil changes and ill back off my point. Just because a bunch of lab coat wearing scientist's say something doesn't mean its true. Ive seen uoa be very inconsistent with what they should be. Also werent scientists the same people who said pluto wasnt a planet and then it was and then it wasnt again? Like I said 3000 oci never hurt anyone.


To be fair, I'd like you to show me one engine that failed because of 5,000 mile oil change intervals; actually, show me one engine that failed because of 7,500 mile oil change intervals. 3,000 mile OCI's in MOST applications is a waste - moving on... Cheers2

IMO, you should change the oil to a stouter, approved oil, run two shorter intervals, and then sample after the third shorter interval. I'm going to go out on a limb and speculate that your engine is just fine, and only needs a proper oil at a proper interval.

Also, while you say you drive 70% city, you're also putting a lot of miles on the car - 10k miles in < 6 months doesn't sound like this engine spends too much time at low temps.


Edited by gathermewool (01/07/14 11:38 PM)
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#3241303 - 01/07/14 11:48 PM Re: Troubling UOA [Re: JMarshall]
rhhsiao Offline


Registered: 01/13/12
Posts: 200
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Part of the problem may be a combination of your driving habits and the use of a biodiesel blend. There are definitely lots of instances where the use of biodiesel in the TDI increases the likelihood of fuel dilution of the motor oil. Fuel dilution is also a strong possibility when you're doing a lot of short trips. Do you have access to regular D2? I'd also shorten the OCI like everyone suggests to try to get the metals down/out. Once you isolate the problem you can start to extend the OCI back to the manufacturer interval.

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#3241326 - 01/08/14 12:52 AM Re: Troubling UOA [Re: gathermewool]
ram_man Offline


Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 2573
Loc: southern mo
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: ram_man
Originally Posted By: JMarshall
Originally Posted By: ls1mike
What is cheaper? An engine or a couple of extra oil changes a year. I would not go 10K.


Definitely the oil. If I'm sitting on a ticking time bomb though, I want to trade it in before [censored] hits the fan.

Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
I don't know squat, but I'd do what B-S suggests; if a 5K interval produces 1/4 the wear...

I'd try to establish whether the wear is linear, or geometric etc.


Will do a couple shorter OCIs and see what it does.

Originally Posted By: volk06
Your engine has only had 3 oil changes in 30K. Thats about 3-5 less OCIs than the average person. While your wear is high its due to the long OCIs and the engine breaking in. If you want to see if you can get lower wear, do a few short OCIs and then sample. That oil looks WEAK as well. What oil is specified for this engine? It looks like it needs to move up to M1 0w40 if that is an approved oil. I'm assuming this is a diesel engine?


This is a 2011 VW Jetta TDI. I am running both the 10K mile oil changes specified by VW, as well as the Castrol SLX Pro LLO3 full synthetic 5W-30 that is both specified and factory.

Originally Posted By: spasm3
Did coolant somehow get in the oil? The K+ is lower but was really high initially.


I have had no coolant loss or leakage.

Originally Posted By: ram_man
3,000 mile oci never hurt anyone.


Actually, multiple UOAs have found that shorter intervals can actually increase wear in these VW TDIs


Funny you mention that when your engine is wearing the way it is. You show me one engine that failed because of 3,000 oil changes and ill back off my point. Just because a bunch of lab coat wearing scientist's say something doesn't mean its true. Ive seen uoa be very inconsistent with what they should be. Also werent scientists the same people who said pluto wasnt a planet and then it was and then it wasnt again? Like I said 3000 oci never hurt anyone.


To be fair, I'd like you to show me one engine that failed because of 5,000 mile oil change intervals; actually, show me one engine that failed because of 7,500 mile oil change intervals. 3,000 mile OCI's in MOST applications is a waste - moving on... Cheers2

IMO, you should change the oil to a stouter, approved oil, run two shorter intervals, and then sample after the third shorter interval. I'm going to go out on a limb and speculate that your engine is just fine, and only needs a proper oil at a proper interval.

Also, while you say you drive 70% city, you're also putting a lot of miles on the car - 10k miles in < 6 months doesn't sound like this engine spends too much time at low temps.



well its not all out failure but the saturn s series if not given 3000 mile oci will burn oil. Alot get so bad its like every tank of gas add a quart. And the only fix is a rebuild.
to say 3,000 mile oci increase wear is insane is my point. Is it a waste in most applications ? Yes I think so. However having one uoa after another that is bad. I would go back to 3,000 and see how it looks if its good then let it go a little longer but I would rather run it a little short and waste a little oil versus running to long and decreasing engine longevity.
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#3241402 - 01/08/14 05:04 AM Re: Troubling UOA [Re: JMarshall]
INDYMAC Offline


Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2338
Loc: Magnolia, TX
I won't comment on a diesel UOA, but did Blackstone switch to GC for fuel dilution determination.

If you value your TDI, then send your reports to Terry Dyson for interpretation and recommendation.
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#3241447 - 01/08/14 06:44 AM Re: Troubling UOA [Re: INDYMAC]
DuckRyder Offline


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 2429
Loc: Atlanta
All of the approved oils for this car are 5/30, Castrol SLX Professional (gold bottle) is the dealer oil. It doesn't have a great reputation in TDi circles.

Mobil 1 has an approved oil (ESP) as does LiqiMoly they are probably the 3 easiest to find.

I'd probably sample at 5000 (not necessarily change) and see how it does.

Also might not be a bad idea to get it on record with VW.
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#3241463 - 01/08/14 07:01 AM Re: Troubling UOA [Re: rhhsiao]
JMarshall Offline


Registered: 01/07/14
Posts: 8
Loc: NW PA
Originally Posted By: rhhsiao
Part of the problem may be a combination of your driving habits and the use of a biodiesel blend. There are definitely lots of instances where the use of biodiesel in the TDI increases the likelihood of fuel dilution of the motor oil. Fuel dilution is also a strong possibility when you're doing a lot of short trips. Do you have access to regular D2? I'd also shorten the OCI like everyone suggests to try to get the metals down/out. Once you isolate the problem you can start to extend the OCI back to the manufacturer interval.


No, all diesel in PA is B5 by mandate

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#3241724 - 01/08/14 11:12 AM Re: Troubling UOA [Re: JMarshall]
rhhsiao Offline


Registered: 01/13/12
Posts: 200
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Originally Posted By: JMarshall
Originally Posted By: rhhsiao
Part of the problem may be a combination of your driving habits and the use of a biodiesel blend. There are definitely lots of instances where the use of biodiesel in the TDI increases the likelihood of fuel dilution of the motor oil. Fuel dilution is also a strong possibility when you're doing a lot of short trips. Do you have access to regular D2? I'd also shorten the OCI like everyone suggests to try to get the metals down/out. Once you isolate the problem you can start to extend the OCI back to the manufacturer interval.


No, all diesel in PA is B5 by mandate


I'd go with a short OCI, probably 5K miles, and do another UOA to see how things are shaping up. The one positive takeaway is that wear metals are trending down save for iron but definitely not fast enough.

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#3241887 - 01/08/14 01:56 PM Re: Troubling UOA [Re: simple_gifts]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 16679
Loc: Iowegia - USA
Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
Quote:

Did coolant somehow get in the oil? The K+ is lower but was really high initially.


Saw that but the glycol test is 0. Wonder if that is a valid test for VW coolant.


The big question is, why is the Potassium trending downward?

Did the FF oil contain a lot of Potassium agent?

What does the VOA of this current oil show in terms of Potassium?



Edited by MolaKule (01/08/14 01:57 PM)
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