Recent Topics
photo testing
by supton
4 minutes 31 seconds ago
Fleet Farm Oil Sale
by bprat318
15 minutes 47 seconds ago
overfilled oil
by Stang40
54 minutes 3 seconds ago
PU 5w-30 API SN / 2,326 mi / 2012 Subaru WRX
by bicycle_wreck
54 minutes 45 seconds ago
Mobil 1 rebate is back
by Poohbah
Today at 09:41 AM
Penrite Enviro+ 5w30 dexos 1, Rav4 2.0, 9000km
by supercity
Today at 07:27 AM
Any reason NOT to run 0w20?
by buck91
Today at 07:15 AM
Strange electrical problem with '04 Corolla
by grampi
Today at 06:56 AM
New oil additive saves 2% on gas
by bigt61
Today at 06:52 AM
Pennzoil Ultra Platinum - HTHS and TBN
by vinu_neuro
Today at 06:15 AM
streaming live sports
by sleepery
Today at 05:23 AM
8/1-8/31 NAPA Dollar Days
by tenderloin
Today at 01:52 AM
Newest Members
bmb31, amadi35, jdoucet, jdfay, kaesees
50819 Registered Users
Who's Online
95 registered (A_Harman, AdmiralYoda, 29662, andrewp1998, 10 invisible), 1963 Guests and 220 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
50819 Members
64 Forums
217150 Topics
3419398 Posts

Max Online: 2862 @ 07/07/14 03:10 PM
Donate to BITOG

Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#3241209 - 01/07/14 09:39 PM Re: Troubling UOA [Re: JMarshall]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7003
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Try an hdeo. Or M1 0w-40.
Devlac makes a 0w-30 syn hdeo called devlac elite 222. I love the stuff.
Devlac also has a 0w-40 that is very stout too. I believe you need a stronger/thicker oil film since by looking at the report there is enough metal to make a jailhouse shiv
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

Top
#3241224 - 01/07/14 10:02 PM Re: Troubling UOA [Re: Clevy]
dparm Online   content


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 12367
Loc: Chicago, IL
Originally Posted By: Clevy

Devlac makes a 0w-30 syn hdeo called devlac elite 222. I love the stuff.
Devlac also has a 0w-40 that is very stout too. I believe you need a stronger/thicker oil film since by looking at the report there is enough metal to make a jailhouse shiv



We can't get that stuff in the US.
_________________________
2011.5 BMW M3 saloon ZCP
der stärkste buchstabe der welt
Castrol Edge Professional TWS 10w60 + Mahle OX 254D3

Top
#3241230 - 01/07/14 10:08 PM Re: Troubling UOA [Re: JMarshall]
2004tdigls Offline


Registered: 10/31/11
Posts: 247
Loc: maple ridge, bc
if your car has the dpf and egr on the car you MUST use a low ash engine oil or the particulate filter will plug in short order

as others have suggested cut your OCI in half to 5000 miles and take a sample.

My dad used to say "oil is cheap, engines are expensive, so change your oil often and never change your engine"

I suggest you try this oil

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_ESP_Formula_M_5W-40.aspx

although it does not meet VW 507, it is a low ash oil

Top
#3241235 - 01/07/14 10:10 PM Re: Troubling UOA [Re: JMarshall]
ram_man Offline


Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 1477
Loc: southern mo
Originally Posted By: JMarshall
Originally Posted By: ls1mike
What is cheaper? An engine or a couple of extra oil changes a year. I would not go 10K.


Definitely the oil. If I'm sitting on a ticking time bomb though, I want to trade it in before [censored] hits the fan.

Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
I don't know squat, but I'd do what B-S suggests; if a 5K interval produces 1/4 the wear...

I'd try to establish whether the wear is linear, or geometric etc.


Will do a couple shorter OCIs and see what it does.

Originally Posted By: volk06
Your engine has only had 3 oil changes in 30K. Thats about 3-5 less OCIs than the average person. While your wear is high its due to the long OCIs and the engine breaking in. If you want to see if you can get lower wear, do a few short OCIs and then sample. That oil looks WEAK as well. What oil is specified for this engine? It looks like it needs to move up to M1 0w40 if that is an approved oil. I'm assuming this is a diesel engine?


This is a 2011 VW Jetta TDI. I am running both the 10K mile oil changes specified by VW, as well as the Castrol SLX Pro LLO3 full synthetic 5W-30 that is both specified and factory.

Originally Posted By: spasm3
Did coolant somehow get in the oil? The K+ is lower but was really high initially.


I have had no coolant loss or leakage.

Originally Posted By: ram_man
3,000 mile oci never hurt anyone.


Actually, multiple UOAs have found that shorter intervals can actually increase wear in these VW TDIs


Funny you mention that when your engine is wearing the way it is. You show me one engine that failed because of 3,000 oil changes and ill back off my point. Just because a bunch of lab coat wearing scientist's say something doesn't mean its true. Ive seen uoa be very inconsistent with what they should be. Also werent scientists the same people who said pluto wasnt a planet and then it was and then it wasnt again? Like I said 3000 oci never hurt anyone.
_________________________
02 Saturn sl 131,000 miles
95 Dodge ram 1500 5.9l 183,000 miles



Top
#3241258 - 01/07/14 10:42 PM Re: Troubling UOA [Re: JMarshall]
Bandito440 Online   content


Registered: 02/13/12
Posts: 1439
Loc: Northern NY
Yikes. That's certainly not our typically boring UOA. I would get a baseline at 3,000 and see what's happening from there. 10,000 is obviously too long for your driving habits by a long shot.

Is this thing under warranty? I'd probably consider Pennzoil Euro 5w-40 or Mobil 1 0w-40, or a synthetic HDEO like Rotella T6 if warranty isn't an issue. I would only be concerned about the DPF if you're burning a considerable amount of oil.
_________________________
'13 Forester 2.5X 5MT - NAPA 0w-20 & Wix 57830
'97 R1100GS - RL 20w-50, KN-163, Shockproof Heavy

Top
#3241275 - 01/07/14 11:05 PM Re: Troubling UOA [Re: JMarshall]
Brybo86 Offline


Registered: 10/08/11
Posts: 633
Loc: Chicago, IL
I would contact vw and ask to speak with or have an engineer see these results
_________________________
08 Honda Accord EX-L 2.4L Amsoil 0w20 ASM w/EA15K13 filter
01 Kymco People 50
95 Yamaha Jog
86 Kawasaki 454Ltd Amsoil Frankenbrew w/Wix 51334

Top
#3241280 - 01/07/14 11:17 PM Re: Troubling UOA [Re: JMarshall]
Bandito440 Online   content


Registered: 02/13/12
Posts: 1439
Loc: Northern NY
One other note: if there is a severe service schedule in your owners manual, that's definitely where you need to be. 70% aggressive city driving does not a long OCI make.
_________________________
'13 Forester 2.5X 5MT - NAPA 0w-20 & Wix 57830
'97 R1100GS - RL 20w-50, KN-163, Shockproof Heavy

Top
#3241295 - 01/07/14 11:37 PM Re: Troubling UOA [Re: ram_man]
gathermewool Offline


Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 3440
Loc: CT
Originally Posted By: ram_man
Originally Posted By: JMarshall
Originally Posted By: ls1mike
What is cheaper? An engine or a couple of extra oil changes a year. I would not go 10K.


Definitely the oil. If I'm sitting on a ticking time bomb though, I want to trade it in before [censored] hits the fan.

Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
I don't know squat, but I'd do what B-S suggests; if a 5K interval produces 1/4 the wear...

I'd try to establish whether the wear is linear, or geometric etc.


Will do a couple shorter OCIs and see what it does.

Originally Posted By: volk06
Your engine has only had 3 oil changes in 30K. Thats about 3-5 less OCIs than the average person. While your wear is high its due to the long OCIs and the engine breaking in. If you want to see if you can get lower wear, do a few short OCIs and then sample. That oil looks WEAK as well. What oil is specified for this engine? It looks like it needs to move up to M1 0w40 if that is an approved oil. I'm assuming this is a diesel engine?


This is a 2011 VW Jetta TDI. I am running both the 10K mile oil changes specified by VW, as well as the Castrol SLX Pro LLO3 full synthetic 5W-30 that is both specified and factory.

Originally Posted By: spasm3
Did coolant somehow get in the oil? The K+ is lower but was really high initially.


I have had no coolant loss or leakage.

Originally Posted By: ram_man
3,000 mile oci never hurt anyone.


Actually, multiple UOAs have found that shorter intervals can actually increase wear in these VW TDIs


Funny you mention that when your engine is wearing the way it is. You show me one engine that failed because of 3,000 oil changes and ill back off my point. Just because a bunch of lab coat wearing scientist's say something doesn't mean its true. Ive seen uoa be very inconsistent with what they should be. Also werent scientists the same people who said pluto wasnt a planet and then it was and then it wasnt again? Like I said 3000 oci never hurt anyone.


To be fair, I'd like you to show me one engine that failed because of 5,000 mile oil change intervals; actually, show me one engine that failed because of 7,500 mile oil change intervals. 3,000 mile OCI's in MOST applications is a waste - moving on... Cheers2

IMO, you should change the oil to a stouter, approved oil, run two shorter intervals, and then sample after the third shorter interval. I'm going to go out on a limb and speculate that your engine is just fine, and only needs a proper oil at a proper interval.

Also, while you say you drive 70% city, you're also putting a lot of miles on the car - 10k miles in < 6 months doesn't sound like this engine spends too much time at low temps.


Edited by gathermewool (01/07/14 11:38 PM)
_________________________
14 Forester XT
Rotella T6 + Subie blue filter
08 Civic LX (Auto)
VWB 5W-20 + Fram Ultra Guard filter

Top
#3241303 - 01/07/14 11:48 PM Re: Troubling UOA [Re: JMarshall]
rhhsiao Offline


Registered: 01/13/12
Posts: 96
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Part of the problem may be a combination of your driving habits and the use of a biodiesel blend. There are definitely lots of instances where the use of biodiesel in the TDI increases the likelihood of fuel dilution of the motor oil. Fuel dilution is also a strong possibility when you're doing a lot of short trips. Do you have access to regular D2? I'd also shorten the OCI like everyone suggests to try to get the metals down/out. Once you isolate the problem you can start to extend the OCI back to the manufacturer interval.

Top
#3241326 - 01/08/14 12:52 AM Re: Troubling UOA [Re: gathermewool]
ram_man Offline


Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 1477
Loc: southern mo
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: ram_man
Originally Posted By: JMarshall
Originally Posted By: ls1mike
What is cheaper? An engine or a couple of extra oil changes a year. I would not go 10K.


Definitely the oil. If I'm sitting on a ticking time bomb though, I want to trade it in before [censored] hits the fan.

Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
I don't know squat, but I'd do what B-S suggests; if a 5K interval produces 1/4 the wear...

I'd try to establish whether the wear is linear, or geometric etc.


Will do a couple shorter OCIs and see what it does.

Originally Posted By: volk06
Your engine has only had 3 oil changes in 30K. Thats about 3-5 less OCIs than the average person. While your wear is high its due to the long OCIs and the engine breaking in. If you want to see if you can get lower wear, do a few short OCIs and then sample. That oil looks WEAK as well. What oil is specified for this engine? It looks like it needs to move up to M1 0w40 if that is an approved oil. I'm assuming this is a diesel engine?


This is a 2011 VW Jetta TDI. I am running both the 10K mile oil changes specified by VW, as well as the Castrol SLX Pro LLO3 full synthetic 5W-30 that is both specified and factory.

Originally Posted By: spasm3
Did coolant somehow get in the oil? The K+ is lower but was really high initially.


I have had no coolant loss or leakage.

Originally Posted By: ram_man
3,000 mile oci never hurt anyone.


Actually, multiple UOAs have found that shorter intervals can actually increase wear in these VW TDIs


Funny you mention that when your engine is wearing the way it is. You show me one engine that failed because of 3,000 oil changes and ill back off my point. Just because a bunch of lab coat wearing scientist's say something doesn't mean its true. Ive seen uoa be very inconsistent with what they should be. Also werent scientists the same people who said pluto wasnt a planet and then it was and then it wasnt again? Like I said 3000 oci never hurt anyone.


To be fair, I'd like you to show me one engine that failed because of 5,000 mile oil change intervals; actually, show me one engine that failed because of 7,500 mile oil change intervals. 3,000 mile OCI's in MOST applications is a waste - moving on... Cheers2

IMO, you should change the oil to a stouter, approved oil, run two shorter intervals, and then sample after the third shorter interval. I'm going to go out on a limb and speculate that your engine is just fine, and only needs a proper oil at a proper interval.

Also, while you say you drive 70% city, you're also putting a lot of miles on the car - 10k miles in < 6 months doesn't sound like this engine spends too much time at low temps.



well its not all out failure but the saturn s series if not given 3000 mile oci will burn oil. Alot get so bad its like every tank of gas add a quart. And the only fix is a rebuild.
to say 3,000 mile oci increase wear is insane is my point. Is it a waste in most applications ? Yes I think so. However having one uoa after another that is bad. I would go back to 3,000 and see how it looks if its good then let it go a little longer but I would rather run it a little short and waste a little oil versus running to long and decreasing engine longevity.
_________________________
02 Saturn sl 131,000 miles
95 Dodge ram 1500 5.9l 183,000 miles



Top
#3241402 - 01/08/14 05:04 AM Re: Troubling UOA [Re: JMarshall]
INDYMAC Offline


Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2324
Loc: Magnolia, TX
I won't comment on a diesel UOA, but did Blackstone switch to GC for fuel dilution determination.

If you value your TDI, then send your reports to Terry Dyson for interpretation and recommendation.
_________________________
2013 Toyota Tundra DC 4X4 5.7L FFV
2012 Toyota 4Runner 2WD SR5
2004 Honda S2000

Top
#3241447 - 01/08/14 06:44 AM Re: Troubling UOA [Re: INDYMAC]
DuckRyder Offline


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 1398
Loc: Atlanta
All of the approved oils for this car are 5/30, Castrol SLX Professional (gold bottle) is the dealer oil. It doesn't have a great reputation in TDi circles.

Mobil 1 has an approved oil (ESP) as does LiqiMoly they are probably the 3 easiest to find.

I'd probably sample at 5000 (not necessarily change) and see how it does.

Also might not be a bad idea to get it on record with VW.
_________________________
Robert
  • 1996 Acura 3.5RL
  • 2005 Honda Civic Sedan
  • 1972 Ford F100
  • 2012 Volkswagen Jetta TDi

Top
#3241463 - 01/08/14 07:01 AM Re: Troubling UOA [Re: rhhsiao]
JMarshall Offline


Registered: 01/07/14
Posts: 8
Loc: NW PA
Originally Posted By: rhhsiao
Part of the problem may be a combination of your driving habits and the use of a biodiesel blend. There are definitely lots of instances where the use of biodiesel in the TDI increases the likelihood of fuel dilution of the motor oil. Fuel dilution is also a strong possibility when you're doing a lot of short trips. Do you have access to regular D2? I'd also shorten the OCI like everyone suggests to try to get the metals down/out. Once you isolate the problem you can start to extend the OCI back to the manufacturer interval.


No, all diesel in PA is B5 by mandate

Top
#3241724 - 01/08/14 11:12 AM Re: Troubling UOA [Re: JMarshall]
rhhsiao Offline


Registered: 01/13/12
Posts: 96
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Originally Posted By: JMarshall
Originally Posted By: rhhsiao
Part of the problem may be a combination of your driving habits and the use of a biodiesel blend. There are definitely lots of instances where the use of biodiesel in the TDI increases the likelihood of fuel dilution of the motor oil. Fuel dilution is also a strong possibility when you're doing a lot of short trips. Do you have access to regular D2? I'd also shorten the OCI like everyone suggests to try to get the metals down/out. Once you isolate the problem you can start to extend the OCI back to the manufacturer interval.


No, all diesel in PA is B5 by mandate


I'd go with a short OCI, probably 5K miles, and do another UOA to see how things are shaping up. The one positive takeaway is that wear metals are trending down save for iron but definitely not fast enough.

Top
#3241887 - 01/08/14 01:56 PM Re: Troubling UOA [Re: simple_gifts]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14148
Loc: Midwest
Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
Quote:

Did coolant somehow get in the oil? The K+ is lower but was really high initially.


Saw that but the glycol test is 0. Wonder if that is a valid test for VW coolant.


The big question is, why is the Potassium trending downward?

Did the FF oil contain a lot of Potassium agent?

What does the VOA of this current oil show in terms of Potassium?



Edited by MolaKule (01/08/14 01:57 PM)
_________________________
If you are going to be weird, be confident about it! smile

Top
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >