Powerstroke 6.0 oil : Rotella T6 or Delo 5w-40?

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NattyBoh

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first and foremost, I have an 06 6.0 powerstroke with only 41900 on the clock. When I bought it, it only had 38k on it. I went right away with OEM filters and Rotella T6.

I can now get the Delo syn locally. What I was wondering is, being the powerstrokes are hard on the oil and shear it down so fast, does the Delo hold up any better? Im trying to do a search but its a PITA on my cell.

I did remember reading that being that the 5w-40 oil is so far apart ( the span between the numbers ) that causes the esters to get shear more readily versus something like 10w-30. I live in Md, so it does get cold here at times during the winter, so I know the 5w-40 will help there, But still unsure on whats what with the other oils out there. [censored] even the Valvoline stuff I can get. Im running a bypass using the EABP100 to just help trap some soot and keep the oil cleaner, and not extend my OCIs.

I did notice quieter injectors when using the 5w-40 Rotella T6. I also threw some Archoil oil additive in there just because. I dont think the added boron and potassium would hurt anything. Is it worth adding Archoil to the oil again? I wasnt experiencing any issues but I thought the added stuff in the Archoil would be beneficial to the injectors.

I may just do 8oz per oil change versus the 16oz that they call for... Anyway, any input is appreciated.

Thanks fellas.
 
Several things to note here ...

1) Nowhere in MD does it so cold that you "need" a syn; just doesn't happen.
2) I know that T6 is not ester based, and I'm fairly sure neither is Delo syn. They are both essentially group III, IIRC.
3) Thinner lubes generally shear less in a PSD with HEUI. While a 40 grade will shear down quickly, a 30 grade fed to HEUI simply does not seem to shear much at all.
4) Syns are great products for greatly extended OCIs; if you're not planning on such runs, it won't pay off
5) Injector issues are often blamed on lube with the PSD, but I've never seen sustained and substantial real proof; most all of it is regurgitated from website to website. Sluggish injection is often a result of FICM trouble related to low voltage damage, but the lube gets the hatred. While many tout products such as RevX, the math and data behind those products is non-existent in support of the claims.


The problems that face your PSD (most of which have their root cause in the blocked oil cooler) are far more concerning than what oil you use, frankly. Concentrate on those fixes first. With the low mileage you have, the sooner you flush the coolant, and then install a coolant filter, the better. That will go a LONG way to helping your engine last.

All that said, of those to lubes you mention, either will more than suffice, and neither is proven "better" than the other. To do so would take hundreds of thousands of miles to prove one over the other, and that would only be unique to a particular application. I've never seen such a study done and published.
 
With the truck being so young, I think I'll have a good run with. I installed an IPR coolant filter, EBAP oil bypass and Im using OEM filters.

I also use Opti-lube in the fuel as well.

The T6 did have a dramatic change in the start up on cold days, the sound and the revving of the engine. Does that mean anything? Im not sure, but it sounds like its doing something...

My FICM is at 49-48v all the time. Normally 48.5v. My oil cooler is in GREAT health at a delta of only 6-8 MAX ( crusing 65mph on highway for over 20 mins ) I flushed the coolant and went with a CAT-1 ELC, and new thermostat.

Dont the Syns generally have a better package on them? Im just weary about running the 15w40 in it, because of how it sounded before to how it sounds now. The injectors are even more quiet with the T6. Again that doesnt mean much as you know...

I only plan on running 5000-7500 OCI absolute max.

There has been proof that the dino oils are causing a weird varnish or build up on the spools in the injectors. That has been proven across the board on several forums. People that are running the T6 arent having those issues.. Thats the reason IM here, to learn and to figure out whats best based off of other people's runnings.
 
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There was one poster on here that posted several good UOAs from using a high quality 10w-30 engine oil. We recently bought an 04 F550 to use as a service truck on our farm and I changed the oil to a Delo 10w-30 and even though we've only had the truck through the spring/summer months, it does seem to start easier/smoother now than it did before. We've purchased a couple pieces of farm equipment with Caterpillar engines in them that use the HEUI system and they've all come from the factory with 10w-30 in them. I realize the 6.0L is not a Cat engine but I figure there has to be something to using a lighter oil with HEUI injectors. I also used some of the Rev-X additive after reading a lot of good things about it on various Ford sites. Our F550 has about 165,000 miles on it and starts and runs awesome yet so I figure something must be going right. This winter when things slow up a little I'm hoping to add head studs. I've seen Youtube videos of people doing it without removing the cab so I figure it can't be that bad.
 
The oiis you mentioned will work for your application, along with a host of others.
In my 6.0 I run 10w-30, and have now for about 100,000 mi., and its all I will run in it until I sell it.

There are several UOA's posted in the HDEO section with 10w-30 in the 6.0, along with several with the lube you mentioned.
You could spend some time there to "comparison shop" one brand to the other, but quite honestly I've been driving a 6.0 since late '03 and 10w-30 is by far going to be your most economical choice.
 
Yeah I've seen a few but ill be looking into it more later. But what I'm saying is I know T6 works wonders in these from the people that I've talked to. From better start ups to better sounding engine etc. I figured that I only change the oil twice a year, so the T6 isn't putting me out of the bank. Its what 30 bucks more?

I'll have to look up the delo syn and the 10w30 oil too. Does the 10w30 come in syn too? I know its not needed but it sure can't hurt and for the little bit extra cost wise, why not?
 
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I have several UOA's posted with 10w-30 Deere Plus 50 II, its not synthetic, and oil & filter I change for less than 50 bucks at 7,500 mi. intervals.

The "proof is in the pudding" so to speak, theres no need for synthetic in these engines.
 
True.. But what about build up in the injectors? There's proof in that as many are starting to find that. Maybe run some Archoil or RevX for the extra lube and cleaning

I'm still on my cell can you link me to some of your Blackstone's..
 
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Given your absolute 7.5k mile max, you will be wasting money on syns, and really for no benefit.

You claim there is "proof" about syns, dinos and varish; please link the proof. Be forewarned; I'm very specific about I consider as proof. I don't want sales hype or internet rhetoric about what folks think. Please show direct, statistical, analytical factual proof.

The "romp" of HEUI is just as easily tamed by using an 10w-30 as a 5w-40. I've seen this firsthand with my neighbors F350 PSD 6.0L.

Sounds like your FICM is in good shape; don't let your batteries get weak and the FICM will stay in good shape.

Sounds like your delta T is fine; you oil cooler is likely not plugged. Stay up on coolant changes and use the bypass and you'll probably not have an EGR or oil related issue.


As for the varnish on the injectors, I'll offer this:
I think this issue is overblown. First of all, it's very hard to discern and diagnose properly. Only a teardown will really confirm/deny the issue. Second, before you start putting in all kinds of additives, why not establish a baseline for comparative purposes? Don't make a witch's brew out of your sump. Ford tried to cure this issue of "stichion" with the famous injector buzz, and it really didn't change much. The two lubes you are interested in (T6 and Delo syn) are not even PAO/ester based lubes; to the best of my knowledge they are group III hydrocracked syns. So the base stock advantages (PAO/ester combo) you're seeking don't even exist in those. This is exactly why I always ask folks to "prove" to me why T6 is so successful at resisting varnish. How can it be so great over a dino when it is, in essence, a glorified dino? I'm not bashing the T6 lube (or Delo for that matter). What I'm calling into question is the common practice of folks adoring T6 as if it's some magical fluid, when the reality is that it's a group III and not PAO/ester based. It is a great fluid that submits strong UOAs, but it's not a magical fluid. So the "success" of T6 keeping injectors clean in all in the mind of folks who are biased based upon a word on a bottle label ("synthetic") and not the actual base stock. If T6 is so great at keeping injectors in good shape, as you and the rest of the internet claim it is, then 10w-30 HDEO dino oil should do just about as good.

I will concede that dino may submit to extreme oil temps a bit sooner than a true syn, but if the oil cooler is in as good shape as you claim (and you keep it that way), then any oil should stay cool. Hence, low oil delta T should be easily safe for a dino. Therefore, varnish should never occur because the dino oil is not being usurped! Keep the oil cool and there is no need for syn. If you "need" syn, then your other maintenance issues are overcoming the oil.

I suggest you review some VOAs and UOAs for a large variety of HDEOs, (of various base stock groups) and then you show me what it is EXACTLY that you think makes T6 so successful at injector health, where others fail. I don't want to hear a peep about other opinions from other websites; I want YOU to show ME the exact formulation and additives and base stock combination that makes T6 succeed and dino fail, in HEUI applications.

To summarize:
want to cure romp? use a thinner lube
want to avoid shearing? use a thinner lube
want to avoid wear? use any CI-4 or CJ-4 lube
want to avoid injector stichion? blame a dino

Three of those four can be tangibly proven; one is rhetoric. I'll let you decide which is which.

Do as you see fit; it's only appropriate that you manage your equipment that makes you happy. You have all the information available to make a wise, or foolish, choice.
 
Thanks man. I understand 100% where you come from. Ive seen posts on powerstroke.org that show techs that are working in the field that have diassembled the injectors to find varnish on the spool valves. And those people were people that ran dino oil. Sure there could be other outlaying terms on why the varnish is there but its seems that everyone that runs T6 has zero issues. I know I know thats not good enough for proof or to say this is better then that w.o evidence.

I guess its hard to go against the grain when you see so many people doing it. And not on ALL things in life, Im talking about truck related here only. Its mainly because the injectors are so [censored] expensive, I dont want to take a chance. Ive been trying to locate threads where people ran 10w30 exclusively and how many miles they have.

Plus I seen the new supplemental oil chart insert for the tech manual and its says 10w30 is only good up to around 50 degrees.. Here in Md is can get over 100 at times. That would be another thing that has me weary about running it... I know Roadrunner here is also on the powerstroke.org forum and he preaches his 10w30 use 100%.




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Here is one thread where he polished the spool valves and the problem went away http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/6-0l-pe...-polishing.html

And another: http://www.powerstrokearmy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32933http://www.powerstrokearmy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32933

There is an issue with the varnish or whatever on the spool valves, but from what..
 
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Okay so Ive been poking around on the net reading about oils.. I know you say the Syns are not needed, ( I know T6 isnt a true syn ) but with that aside... Do you think the 10w-30 would pose better in the PSD?

Questions as followed, if you dont mind...

1. Since the PSD shears 5w40 down to a 30w, using 10w30 pretty much eliminates the shear? As in the oil wont go much lower then 30 since its already there, right?

2. Ive seen, 5w40, 5w30, 10w30.. Which one of those would be best in MD? The 5w40 has a far span between cold and hot weights and that can cause issues with shearing right? What about this, you can get the better cold pour of the 5w with the 5w30 but still not have to worry about the shearing that the 40w would get, because of the 30w hot weight right?

3. This is where I think Im geting confused. The use of syns is pretty much to keep the oil stable longer right? The additives is what is going to prevent stiction, varnish, keep the engine cleaner right? Its not the fact that its synthetic right?
 
First off the issue of "shear" is over-blown as far as engine wear. Yes the 15w-40 does shear into 30 wt., some worse than others, but it doesn't really have an adverse effect in engine wear.

My issue with my short 3 oil changes using 5w-40 were they sheared into a low 30 wt., and it was more expensive, so why not just use a 30 wt. to begin with? As per my own UOA's the 5w-40 sheared lower than the 10w-30.

In my personal opinion your average temp in MD isn't much different than here in northern OH, so we should be able to compare usage.
My 6.0 is my work truck, we load it up to 4,000 lbs. in the bed everyday and drive 150 mi. down the highway in 90f+ heat. My UOA's have shown that this just isn't an issue for me.

The use of syn. had its greatest advantage in high-heat situations, and in a properly functioning 6.0 this just isn't an issue. UOA evidence has shown that the HEUI system beats up just about any oil, syn & dino.

The oil I use, Deere Plus 50 II, is an CJ-4 oil designed and marketed as an extended drain oil. The "Plus 50" means 50% over Deeres recommended OCI. It has a very robust additive package designed for heavy equipment, tractors, marine, and on-road use.

My point is this, don't fear using a 10w-30, it is working in my application just fine. But in the end you will have to make the final decision on oil choice, and your truck isn't going to care, its going to have to be what makes you sleep worry-free through the night.
 
Thanks man. I can't get that oil locally. So I would have to get another brand, same flavor.

But you see the chart ford has in their manual. It says that the 10w30 wouldn't work for my or our climates
 
Originally Posted By: NattyBoh
But you see the chart ford has in their manual. It says that the 10w30 wouldn't work for my or our climates


Don't be afraid, I run Amsoil HDD 5w30 in my 6.0L PSD, never ran better; I'm in Louisiana...much hotter summers.
 
The spec sheet for the oil states 10w-30 is good up to 104 f, but high air temp isn't really an issue with our trucks as they have an oil to coolant oil cooler.
 
Originally Posted By: NattyBoh
With the truck being so young, I think I'll have a good run with. I installed an IPR coolant filter, EBAP oil bypass and Im using OEM filters.

I also use Opti-lube in the fuel as well.

The T6 did have a dramatic change in the start up on cold days, the sound and the revving of the engine. Does that mean anything? Im not sure, but it sounds like its doing something...

My FICM is at 49-48v all the time. Normally 48.5v. My oil cooler is in GREAT health at a delta of only 6-8 MAX ( crusing 65mph on highway for over 20 mins ) I flushed the coolant and went with a CAT-1 ELC, and new thermostat.

Dont the Syns generally have a better package on them? Im just weary about running the 15w40 in it, because of how it sounded before to how it sounds now. The injectors are even more quiet with the T6. Again that doesnt mean much as you know...

I only plan on running 5000-7500 OCI absolute max.

There has been proof that the dino oils are causing a weird varnish or build up on the spools in the injectors. That has been proven across the board on several forums. People that are running the T6 arent having those issues.. Thats the reason IM here, to learn and to figure out whats best based off of other people's runnings.

Sounds like you have the basics down. I have an 03 F350 with the 6.0 . 102k on the clock, still running very well, but it does need to go to the shop for a cracked up pipe replacement. I've run both the Shell T5 10w30, and the Delo 10w30. I tow a 9600lb travel trailer, and am not concerned in the least about running a 30 weight. There are too many UOA's here and that I have done, that show these engines run on a 30 weight just fine, either by starting with one, or shearing a 40 to 30. I personally stay closer to 5000 than 7500, but if your UOA's are coming up good, extend yours out to what you are comfy with. Valvoline makes a Premium Blue in 10w30, and Brad-Penn makes a 10w30 diesel oil also. You'll have zero issues running a 30 weight, even in the summer months.
As far as oil additives, I've only tried Scheaffers moly supplement, but the talk on the town is the offering from Archoil. 36. and change for one oil change, supposedly helps the injectors, and cold starts. I personally think the majority of injector issues on these engines are FICM related. I do try and help the fuel by adding Power Service to each fill up for some lubricity and a little cetane boost.
I have not issues starting on a 10 weight vs the 5w40 that is so highly regarded, until last Monday. The truck had set for 2 months without being cranked over, and it was 5 degrees outside. It cranked, but bucked and nailed, and would not keep running. The holidays and life had just caught up with me, I hadn't even added an ant-gel to the fuel for winter. I plugged the truck in for 4 hours, and it fired right up.
 
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