Air bubbles in engine oil??

[Bob69]

I started a thread in another section; linking here to get more responses. Mostly interested in mechanical causes of air bubbles and how much of a problem it may be.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...il?#Post3212620

 

[NHGUY]

Air bubbles in oil...sounds like Lucas additives.

 

[gregk24]

If too much oil is in the sump the crankshaft will whip it all up and make air bubbles, and we all know air is not a good lubricant, the bearings would probably be the first to go.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: NHGUY
Air bubbles in oil...sounds like Lucas additives.



Hehehe.
Yep

 

[MolaKule]

Foaming is caused by entrained gas such as air or combustion gases.

Foaming of a lubricant will reduce its effectiveness and needs to be minimized and at best stopped from building up during engine operation.

Here is something everyone who uses third party additives should be aware of:

The stability of foams increases as more additives are added to the lubricant.

What this means is as more additives are added or additives become a higher percentage of the fully formulated oil, it is more difficult to "burst the bubbles."

This is why fully formulated oils are such a balancing act.

To maximize foam (bubble) breakup some foam inhibitors that are used are:

Dimethylsiloxane polymers
Acrylate copolymers


Anti-foamers and Defoamers

 

[chubbs1]

Get rid of the Ceratec in the next run. Use a good oil and that is all you need.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: chubbs1
Get rid of the Ceratec in the next run. Use a good oil and that is all you need.



Who mentioned cera-tec.
If that was for me I've already drained the cera-tec additized sump load. That stuff only needs to be done every 30000 miles.

 

[spasm3]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: chubbs1
Get rid of the Ceratec in the next run. Use a good oil and that is all you need.



Who mentioned cera-tec.
If that was for me I've already drained the cera-tec additized sump load. That stuff only needs to be done every 30000 miles.


The op mentioned using cera-tec in another thread of the same topic. He said he noticed the bubbles only after using the product.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: spasm3
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: chubbs1
Get rid of the Ceratec in the next run. Use a good oil and that is all you need.



Who mentioned cera-tec.
If that was for me I've already drained the cera-tec additized sump load. That stuff only needs to be done every 30000 miles.


The op mentioned using cera-tec in another thread of the same topic. He said he noticed the bubbles only after using the product.


Sorry spasm. I clued in after I followed the link.

 

[Challenger71]

Bob, the origin of the "bubbles" may actually be from the oil itself. Not bubbles perse but active additive. I've noticed that recently with both Amsoil SS and M1 high-mileage oils that I use as primary. I was concerned after seeing bubbles recently on the dipstick everytime I checked it on my Forester and convinced myself that I was overfilling the crankcase (I was'nt). It occurred to me to peak into the oil containers and sure enough there they were..in the case of Amsoil it was an empty bottle but I keep a few around just in case I need it for something. There was the "bubbles" at the bottom, container was practially empty of content but I could still see the active additive in there. Same with my last bottle of M1 high-mileage 5w30...had a 3/4 quart left and took a peak in there with a flashlight and there was the "bubbles" again. It's just additives and not sure which one but they do appear to me to be slightly metallic and of the shape and consistency of a small air bubble if looked at in certain light angles. As for your Ceratec, it's not causing any issues and may actually be preserving the additive in the oils since CT is doing such a good job of friction reduction by itself.

Originally Posted By: Bob69
I started a thread in another section; linking here to get more responses. Mostly interested in mechanical causes of air bubbles and how much of a problem it may be.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...il?#Post3212620

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Foaming is caused by entrained gas such as air or combustion gases.

Foaming of a lubricant will reduce its effectiveness and needs to be minimized and at best stopped from building up during engine operation.

Here is something everyone who uses third party additives should be aware of:

The stability of foams increases as more additives are added to the lubricant.

What this means is as more additives are added or additives become a higher percentage of the fully formulated oil, it is more difficult to "burst the bubbles."

This is why fully formulated oils are such a balancing act.

To maximize foam (bubble) breakup some foam inhibitors that are used are:

Dimethylsiloxane polymers
Acrylate copolymers


Anti-foamers and Defoamers


Good info. What is happening with Amsoil and Mobil 1 EP here where no third party additives are being used? He claims to see bubbles on his dipstick with both products. Are they bubbles or active additives? Thanks!

Originally Posted By: Challenger71
Bob, the origin of the "bubbles" may actually be from the oil itself. Not bubbles perse but active additive. I've noticed that recently with both Amsoil SS and M1 high-mileage oils that I use as primary. I was concerned after seeing bubbles recently on the dipstick everytime I checked it on my Forester and convinced myself that I was overfilling the crankcase (I was'nt). It occurred to me to peak into the oil containers and sure enough there they were..in the case of Amsoil it was an empty bottle but I keep a few around just in case I need it for something. There was the "bubbles" at the bottom, container was practially empty of content but I could still see the active additive in there. Same with my last bottle of M1 high-mileage 5w30...had a 3/4 quart left and took a peak in there with a flashlight and there was the "bubbles" again. It's just additives and not sure which one but they do appear to me to be slightly metallic and of the shape and consistency of a small air bubble if looked at in certain light angles. As for your Ceratec, it's not causing any issues and may actually be preserving the additive in the oils since CT is doing such a good job of friction reduction by itself.

Originally Posted By: Bob69
I started a thread in another section; linking here to get more responses. Mostly interested in mechanical causes of air bubbles and how much of a problem it may be.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...il?#Post3212620

 

[Bob69]

Bringing this back; still have the super fine air bubbles so getting ready to change the oil. I've also seen a fine black residue (early on it also had some white flecks in it) on the dipstick that I haven't seen before; this also started immediately after adding the Ceratec. My assumption is that the Ceratec (Boron Nitride and Moly) either wasn't ground fine enough and/or it just clumped up and/or reacted in a bad way with the Mobil 1 TDT 5W-40.

I picked up a bottle of Amsoil Engine and Transmission Flush; figure that it might help remove any excess Ceratec?

I'll report back after I change this oil, going to Mobil 1 0W-40 European formula.

 

[Bob69]

Ok, changed the oil after first using AMSOIL Engine and Transmission Cleaner with a new filter then drained the oil, changed the filter again, then added 0W-40 Mobil 1 but no extra additives. The crankcase is not overfilled (left it ~1/2 quart low) but I still found the bubbles present on a cold engine (after a couple minutes of running) and a fully warmed up engine after 30 minutes of driving. Came out this morning and looked at the dipstick again and there were still a few bubbles in the oil on the dipstick. I'm now wondering if it isn't the additive package as mentioned above, but what has me confused is that I've been using Mobil 1 for years and never saw bubbles of any kind, never. On the other hand this is the first time I've used the newer formulations of Mobil 1 in 0W-40 or 5W-40, so maybe the newer formulations have more/different additives or less anti-foaming additives?? Sending out another oil sample for analysis.