Honda Pilot vs Toyota 4Runner vs VS Toureg

[ikolbyi]

My current 2004 Toyota Highlander 4WD is fast approaching time to replace due to excessive maintenance costs (~$4,000 in last 8 months with 100,000 miles). Another Highlander is not being considered, one of the primary reasons due to consistent poor traction in snow and poor weather conditions (sneakers/tires worn: OEM Toyto Transpath A11; Michelin CrossTerrain; Yokohama Geolandar H/T-S). In comparison my VW Passat 4-Motion, Audi A6, and Audi Q5 never had an issue with the snow and poor weather conditions.

That brings me to my question - of the 3 being considered: 2014
* Honda Pilot EX
* Toyota 4Runner Limited
* VW Toureg sport (base model)

What do current and past drivers recommend?

What will this car be used for? -> Primary family hauler and cargo (both roof and up to 1,000 lbs towing). The VW has a negative tick in this space for having the smallest trunk capacity and lack of 3rd row of seats. 3rd row is not required, but nice to have for the 2 times a year they have been used in the Highlander. The vehicle will get its rims dirty with minor off roading, but nothing these 3 can't handle (Highlander was fine in the minor dirt and gravel roads it traveled). Light to moderate snow fall is the largest fear since the Highlander fitted with the 3 mentioned tires receives a failing grade in every category possible whereas my VW/Audi's never had a single issue. In fact, my Audi had to tow out the Highlander one time when the Highlander got stuck in 4 feet of snow and the Audi was fitted with Michelin OEMs. We live in the North-East.

 

[bepperb]

I'm a little surprised someone would consider a 4runner and a Pilot, especially since you kinda know what you're getting with the crossover.

I'm surprised you were able to sink 4 grand into a decade old Highlander.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Ability in snow has VERY little to do with the vehicle itself, but the tires. Put a set of tires on a Pilot and Highlander, and you can not see a difference.

I don't think a Pilot and a 4 Runner are in the same class (even though they are). 4 Runner is a truck based, full frame SUV.

With that said, out of those three options and what you plan on using it for, I'd spend the extra money and get the 4 Runner. Can't go wrong with full frame and Aisin transmission!

 

[exploreco]

We love our Pilot, although we have the older version. Enough room for us. Don't use the third row all the time, but for the few times of year we do, it comes in handy. We tow a pop up camper with it and it does well. The ride is nice and comfortable. Don't expect great gas mileage. Average for an SUV of that size. I would recommend you spend some time visiting the Piloteers.org forum and read up on the current gen Pilot. There have been some newer generation owners that complain about vibration issues in their Pilot when the cylinder deactivation kicks in. Some owners have no issues at all and some have it worse than others. There are many threads over there that talk about it. The main recommendation is to thoroughly drive the Pilot you are going to buy. Not just any one and then pick another one. Some owners have done that and noticed no issues with the one they drove and then noticed issues with the one they took. Just go and read up

But, with that said, I love my Pilot and will probably buy a second newer one or we will get an Odyssey (someday), unless I get a truck, then it will be a new GMC. Good Luck

 

[bepperb]

Right, I don't know enough about the Toureg to comment on the AWD system, but there's no reason to think the Pilot would be any better than a current Highlander on the same tires/conditions.

Of course you could upgrade to a truck based SUV. You could also take the cash you would have spent on the extra gas that takes and get snow tires.

 

[ikolbyi]

I am aware of the uni-body construction (Pilot/Highlander/VW) vs body-on-frame (4Runner) and the differences which is why I listed the primary usage. Price wise they are all in the same range.

Regarding tire performance....yes I agree tire performance is key but after 3 attempts with the Highlander and they all yielded poor performance (granted they are not snow tires), the VW/Audi proved the vehicle does matter, especially when an Audi fitted with Michelin OEM tires pulls out a stuck Highlander fitted with Michelin CrossTerrains in the same snow depth.

 

[exploreco]

I ended up putting Michelin LTX MS/2 on my Pilot that replaced the GY's that came on it and wow, what a difference in all conditions. They do really good in the snow for being none snow tires.

 

[supton]

Out of the three, 4Runner, but I've become a Toyota fanboi. I'm not totally sold on the 4.0, I'd probably want the legendary 3.4, but those are getting kinda old and were never that fast&powerful (relatively speaking to today).

Me, I'd avoid the VW. As a VW owner, I'd only contemplate if I had another vehicle which I could depend upon. Hint, hint...

Honda's aren't bad, but Toyota seems to edge 'em out on transmissions. I think I could go either way in terms of Highlander vs Pilot. Where you are, I probably wouldn't consider a 4Runner, as it is seemingly overkill for your needs.

What is up with the Highlander? I'd think after $4k it'd be in great shape to go another 100k. Tires should make the difference, and it's the devil you already know. Actually, how do you hit $4k in maintance at the 100k mark? Seems rather high, unless if it was maintance for all 100kmiles or actual repairs or something.

 

[ikolbyi]

Originally Posted By: exploreco
I ended up putting Michelin LTX MS/2 on my Pilot that replaced the GY's that came on it and wow, what a difference in all conditions. They do really good in the snow for being none snow tires.


This thread: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2344134
reads like Ford vs Chevy.

I have another $1,600 pending in "maintenance" on the current Highlander (failing wheel bearings) so the Yoks sneakers current fitted will be its last with me. As for the 3 autos I am inquiring about, all 3 have been test driven and approved by the primary driver (spouse). What we are trying to not repeat is getting stuck in the snow...again.

I have read that the 2013 Pilots are plagued by engine issues: http://www.carcomplaints.com/Honda/Pilot/2013/engine/

Any verification with this in the 2014? How is the 'real world' reliability with the 4Runner? I am already familiar with VW/Audi.

 

[supton]

That's a repair, and that is indeed quite pricey. Seems kinda ridiculous though. I paid too much on my Jetta, but it was like $700 (albeit 6 years ago) for the fronts. Are they really that much worse on the Highlander?

 

[GenSan]

You've admitted that the poor winter traction in your '04 Highlander is a function of your all-seasons' poor winter traction so I would recommend you reconsider the 2nd Gen Highlander or even current 3rd Gen version. Its not the vehicle and whether it has a sophisticated 4WD/AWD you need to address, it's the tires. I bought my wife a 2013 Highlander Hybrid Limited that has abysmal winter traction, as in your case, due to all-season tires(19" Toyo A20s). Turning off traction control and skid control with the Toyo A20s allowed me to get to my tree stand through 6" of fresh snow without getting stuck. I since have outfitted the vehicle w/ dedicated snows(Yokohama Ice Guard IG51Vs) and it has excellent traction in all winter conditions.

Likewise I have a co-worker/fishing & hunting buddy who drives a Cayenne Turbo S who always complains that he's slipping & sliding around in the parking garage's steep entry/exit ramp at the hospital. I always remind him he should upgrade to winter tires to no avail. Meanwhile my ride to work is a 1997 Toyota 4Runner Limited w/ 2WD, no differential lock, and Bridgestone Blizzak DM-V1 tires that makes it up and down without any drama.

If the Honda Pilot has the same VTM-4 AWD system as the Ridgeline then that's what I would consider as I've driven my buddy's Ridgeline w/ near bald GY all-season's on snow and ice under WOT and it never slid.

In short blame your all-season tires for poor winter traction and not the vehicle, but I do like Honda's VTM-4 AWD system in winter.

 

[GenSan]

The following video confirmed the Honda Pilot uses the same VTM-4 AWD system as the Ridgline. So the Pilot would be my choice of the 3 you mentioned, for excellent winter traction even with all-season tires.

 

[ikolbyi]

Originally Posted By: supton
That's a repair, and that is indeed quite pricey. Seems kinda ridiculous though. I paid too much on my Jetta, but it was like $700 (albeit 6 years ago) for the fronts. Are they really that much worse on the Highlander?


Toyota makes you replace entire housing assembly. I was forced to fix 2 wheels already and I know I'm on borrowed time with the other 2.

Regarding another comment that this is 100% tires and only the tires....that is also somewhat false because the Michelin Energy tires on my Audi A6 pulled out the stuck Highlander with Michelin CrossTerrain in the same snow depth. I was never-ever in 10 years owning a Quattro system able to get my vehicle stuck or sleigh ride down a hill as I have with the Toyota Highlander. And the Quattro vehicles never had snow tires on them. I had a loaner 2013 Highlander and fishtailed it in the rain during a tight turn. I had a loaner 2014 4Runner and it seemed to hug the road decent.

My inexperience with the 4Runner and Pilot is why I am here asking for support.

 

[rjundi]

Your old Highlander has FWD+ not really AWD. It was very poor rendition of AWD. It explains your issues in snow. I personally observered at your family ski home stuck RX300, Sienna AWD and Highlanders that all share this system in the long drifted in driveway.

Pilots never an issue along with Toureag a friend has(2012).

As far as vehicles Pilot seems to be the most usable space(box) and roomy and likely best MPG. However not sure of the appeal.

 

[Trav]

Toyota then VW. Honda for me isn't even on the list. Personally I wouldn't want a Honda if you paid for it.
If you think the Toyota was expensive wait till you own one of these money sucking hounds, I mean Honda's.

I have another one of these scrap yard refugees outside right now as I post with all sort of problems. The question is is it worth fixing this 06 Honda or just scrap it.
It has VCM issues

, an 0.6 amp current draw on a major circuit, a slipping transmission and a noisy PS rack and pump along with a few other things.
I say call the wrecker and scrap it.

 

[R80RS]

Originally Posted By: supton


Me, I'd avoid the VW. As a VW owner, I'd only contemplate if I had another vehicle which I could depend upon. Hint, hint...



+1 speaking as a fellow VW owner.

 

[ikolbyi]

Originally Posted By: R80RS
Originally Posted By: supton


Me, I'd avoid the VW. As a VW owner, I'd only contemplate if I had another vehicle which I could depend upon. Hint, hint...



+1 speaking as a fellow VW owner.


Interesting - I've owned 2 VW's (well into 6-digit mileage) and 2 Audi's and they have been the most reliable. I even wrecked my 4-motion Passat on an interstate doing 70mph and walked away without a scratch. Toyota and Ford...I call tell stories.

My issue with the VW Toureg is it is on the small side for my needs and the Audi Q7 is too expensive. That leaves me with Pilot vs 4Runner discussion.

 

[JavierG]

If the Pilots are anything like my Ridgeline then I would opt for it. Drove my Ridge up to Yosemite during light snow weather and 60k miles on Michelin LTX and encountered no problems. Scenery was beautiful and never even had to use chains.

 

[CBR.worm]

If you are comfortable with VW/Audi, the touregs are supposed to have great AWD. Myself, being a two time, bought new, Audi owner, could never recommend a VW/Audi product. OTOH, my dad has a 9 year old Cayenne S that has only needed about $4k to get it to 70k miles, which is actually quite good. It has been extremely reliable aside from the cardan shaft/joints and the plastic plumbing.

Of those, I would recommend the 4-Runner. I have also bought and owned for many miles 3 Toyota trucks and can highly recommend them. They are more often hit than miss.

 

[DirtyMoe21]

4runner, you won't be disappointed.