Headlight Restoration Issue

[The Critic]

Hey guys,

I did a headlight restoration tonight. This is probably the second one that I have ever done. While the owner is very happy with the results, I am not.

After I was done, there was still a very faint haze that I can see under bright overhead florescent lights. I am not sure if the haze can be seen in daylight.

Here was my process. I started with the 3M headlight kit, but I ultimately went to hand-sanding using Meguiars Unigrit sandpaper.

L/F Headlight:
- Dry sand with 3M 500 grit disc w/drill
- Dry sand with 3M 800 grit disc w/drill
- Wet sand with Meg 1500 unigrit by hand
- Compound with rotary, LC purple foam wool and Meguiars M105
- Found traces of 800 grit marks and pigtails…so wet sanded with Meg 1000 unigrit by hand
- Wet sand with Meg 1500 unigrit by hand
- Compound with rotary, LC purple foam wool and Meguiars M105
- Compound with rotary, B&S orange cutting foam pad and Menzerna FG400
- Final polish with Flex 3401, B&S green polishing pad and Sonax Perfect Finish

R/F Headlight:
- Wet sand with Meg 1500 unigrit by hand
- Compound with rotary, LC purple foam wool and Meguiars M105
- Compound with rotary, B&S orange cutting foam pad and Menzerna FG400
- Final polish with Flex 3401, B&S green polishing pad and Sonax Perfect Finish

The L/F headlight turned out a hair clearer than the R/F. However, both of them still have a very faint haze -- they're definitely not as clear as brand-new OE headlights.

Any ideas as to what the issue may be? I do not see any sanding pigtails or sanding marks. Perhaps plastic without a clear coat, is supposed to have a very small amount of haze?

Thanks.

 

[ram_man]

You may laugh but tooth paste and a buffer made mine look like brand new. Maybe worth a shot?

 

[genynnc]

A few questions for you before I can give advice...if I can give any:

How many miles are on the car?

Regarding paper, do you have anything finer than 1500?

Why did you change from a rotary to Flex for final machine step?

Why did you go from M105 to FG400 on the 2nd machine step?

Do you have M205 or another polish?

 

[Sayjac]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
....While the owner is very happy with the results, I am not....

Holy cow, reading your process makes me wonder how long one headlight took. I've done a fair number of headlight restorations myself using Crystal View kits and most recently some with the Rain X kit from Advance so I have some experience and I prefer the hand sand to the drill kits, but that's just me and I digress.

The only two things that 'might' improve the haze some, is trying another finer grit step like 2000. But that also may do nothing considering all the final compounding type steps you did.

The other is, both kits mentioned have clear coat like/UV protectant step to fill the fine scratches and help the job last longer. You could try something like that or some clear coat to reduce the haze some.

All that said, IME the job is not going to be like a new factory headlight and some slight hazing is par for the course. The key is quoted at the top, and really what's important, the owner is very happy. There's another quote from you I read awhile back about learning not to sweat the 'small stuff' since joining this site. Something to keep in mind here, imo. My.02

 

[JHZR2]

What's to say they aren't hazed from the inside as well? Lots of heat and probably uv as well.

 

[Rolla07]

The way I did mine I could of spent alot longer on it for better results. As you go through from coarsest to mildest sanding i would recommend progressively spending more time on the finer grades. Also, i think spending a good amount of time on the harshest grade to wipe off the contamination. Finally, i would go for a final sanding with something even finer, I think they call it trizac sanding paper. 2000 than 3000 wet sand. Thats likely the reason for the remaining haze. Spent a good amount of time with the 2000 and 3000 paper.

 

[Trav]

I use 2000 and water with a drop of dawn, when it looks good and uniform rub 2 small pieces of 2000 together to make it even finer and finish wet sanding with that.
Polish with Novus.

http://www.amazon.com/NOVUS-PC-208-Plastic-Scratch-Remover/dp/B000ABANKQ/ref=pd_sim_auto_7

Wipe it down good with prepsol, prep all or SEM plastic prep, remove all traces with a fine microfiber then use this..

http://www.tcpglobal.com/AutoBodyDepot/I...CFeYWMgodzxoA-w

This is the most important part of the restoration. You will need a UV light source to dry the clear.

 

[440Magnum]

I've never had a set that didn't stay with the slight haze you describe. I think, as others have said, that UV damage extends fairly deep into, if not all the way through, the plastic. Its getting bombarded from both sides- the sun from the outside, and halogen bulbs produce a non-trivial amount that works on the inside.

What I wouldn't give for carmakers to go back to using single and quad standard-format headlamps on all vehicles, and pouring all the research and optimization into those. But with the advent of LEDs, I don't see that happening. We'll still have a mix of good and bad optics and materials in vehicle-specific headlamps forever.

 

[spasm3]

They can be too far gone to be restored. As others mentioned on both sides or all the way through, i have seen this. i even used 1000 grit sand paper and could not restore some.

 

[bepperb]

If I had spent the amount of effort you have and still did not get satisfactory results I'd be considering replacing the entire assembly. Sometimes, though, it makes a lot more sense to live with imperfections if you're the only person who can tell they exist (this is speaking as a woodworker, but I think it carries over to this situation.)

 

[The Critic]

genynnc, please see below. Thanks!

Quote:

How many miles are on the car? Acura RSX, 170k. I think it's a 2002.

Regarding paper, do you have anything finer than 1500? I do, I have 2500. But I figured that wool/M105 or FG400/rotary should easily remove 1500 grit marks.

Why did you change from a rotary to Flex for final machine step? No particular reason.

Why did you go from M105 to FG400 on the 2nd machine step? Less cut with the FG400/B&S Orange combination, wanted to refine any marks that the wool pad left behind.

Do you have M205 or another polish? Sonax Perfect Finish takes the place of M205


Now that I think about it, I think I went back over the lenses a final time, using a LC Hybrid Blue 5" pad and Sonax Perfect Finish once more just to see if the haze changed- but it did not.

Thanks a lot to everyone for their feedback so quickly. I am starting to think that the haze may be from the inside of the lens.

The lenses are getting sealed with Optimum Opti-Lens on Monday for UV protection. I did not have a chance to apply it last night because the car needed to be washed and driven immediately afterwards.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: sayjac
Originally Posted By: The Critic
....While the owner is very happy with the results, I am not....

Holy cow, reading your process makes me wonder how long one headlight took.

Thanks. The L/F took me about 75 minutes, due to the different things I tried.

I taught the owner to do the R/F himself, and that one went a lot faster since only 1500 grit was used.

 

[genynnc]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
genynnc, please see below. Thanks!

Quote:

How many miles are on the car? Acura RSX, 170k. I think it's a 2002.

Regarding paper, do you have anything finer than 1500? I do, I have 2500. But I figured that wool/M105 or FG400/rotary should easily remove 1500 grit marks.

Why did you change from a rotary to Flex for final machine step? No particular reason.

Why did you go from M105 to FG400 on the 2nd machine step? Less cut with the FG400/B&S Orange combination, wanted to refine any marks that the wool pad left behind.

Do you have M205 or another polish? Sonax Perfect Finish takes the place of M205


Now that I think about it, I think I went back over the lenses a final time, using a LC Hybrid Blue 5" pad and Sonax Perfect Finish once more just to see if the haze changed- but it did not.

Thanks a lot to everyone for their feedback so quickly. I am starting to think that the haze may be from the inside of the lens.


A few thoughts...

1.) 170K is a lot of miles... the 'haze' may be from the inside as mentioned previously.

2.) I usually try to refine with paper further than 1500... remember, you are dealing with a plastic and not a painted surface, so it's going to react different when polishing. Yes, a compound/ wool should remove 1500 sanding marks on painted sheet metal... I wouldn't say it absolutely will with a clear plastic.

3.) I usually follow wool/ compound with orange pad and SAME compound... but that's just me.

However, I believe your efforts would have been just fine if the car had 80K miles on it. 170K is a lot of time for clear plastic(s) to 'wear'.

 

[The Critic]

Thanks. You do raise a good point about plastic being a different material than paint --- I had not thought about the applicability of the 1200 grit removal claims.

Here are pictures of the lights. Note the very slight haze:

 

[KitaCam]

I just removed some initial crust buildup to my neighbor's 5-year old Corolla...they look showroom fresh.

I used this effective product line:
Sumner Labs Plus 210 Plastic Scratch Remover and 201 Plastic Cleanser and Polish (sealant)

 

[KitaCam]

Here's another Sumner Lab product job...done only by hand and elbow grease...

 

[Tzu]

I just bought new ones for my '00 Impala LS off ebay because they were clouded on the inside too. I spent at least an hour each side sanding and polishing, but it only made it smoother but still a clouded looking lens. The new ones were $108.00 and actually look nicer with black accents and all new bulbs included. Hope to put them on when the road salt chip season is nearly done.
Originally Posted By: spasm3
They can be too far gone to be restored. As others mentioned on both sides or all the way through, i have seen this. i even used 1000 grit sand paper and could not restore some.

 

[Silverado12]

A quick way of doing this is flitz polish and a Mother's Powerball or Flitz Buffball. If needed, wet sand w/ultrafine paper. Then finish off with Plexus cleaner.

 

[Oldmoparguy1]

This is an interesting discussion. On our 2000 GC the left headlight asm. was replaced. I refinished the right headlight and it came out well, but it still had that slight haze.

My question now is, what can I do to protect the headlights on our 2013 GC? Maybe I should start a new thread?

Wayne

 

[Smokescreen]

Originally Posted By: Oldmoparguy1
This is an interesting discussion. On our 2000 GC the left headlight asm. was replaced. I refinished the right headlight and it came out well, but it still had that slight haze.

My question now is, what can I do to protect the headlights on our 2013 GC? Maybe I should start a new thread?

Wayne


The UV from the sun breaks the coating down faster than anything else so park facing headlights away from the sun or out of it entirely. Good wax coat regularly is about all you can do. I have done this and I have had no hazing on any car that I have, some of them are older.