Rupes LHR 21ES Polisher - thoughts?

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A local detailer from another forum invited me to his shop tonight for some instructional time. It was amazing how much I learned from a pro detailer after just a few short hours.

I was able to get some hands-on time with the Rupes 21 polisher. My time was spent doing a 1-step polish on a door and the rear quarter panel of a coupe. I was surprised by how much correction I attained on just speed 3 -- and despite how little pressure I was putting on the machine.

The biggest difference between my Flex 3401 and the Rupes 21 was how much smoother the Rupes was. With my Flex, it was very tiring to polish a few panels because of the machine's vibration and the "walking" that it tends to exhibit. The Rupes still "walks" a little, but the machine is so much smoother.

Is anyone else using the Rupes 21? The only disadvantage that I've seen is its tendency to stop spinning on certain curved panels. I am seriously reconsidering the idea of selling my Flex and going with the Rupes altogether.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
 
Tools and chemicals don't make a good detailer! I know, I have tried to amass bunch of tools and chemicals but I am still a lousy detailer.

Somebody needs to smack you a little and I am going to be that guy. You need to seek help for your OCD.

Seriously, you are asking these question in a wrong forum.

As far as the answer to your question is concerned?:- Is the polisher very expensive? If yes, then of course you need it. You have to have the tool which costs the most, otherwise you will NOT be happy.
 
I don't have direct experience with the Rupes line of polishers. However, my understanding is that they are NOT forced rotation, unlike the Flex that you have right now. This is probably why you noticed that the Rupes polishers tend to stop rotation on sharp transitions.

I think the main benefit to the Rupes is that it has a much longer throw in the oscillation pattern of the tool head, that's where the majority of the correction comes from. Frankly if you aren't a pro detailer, I'd just stick with the Flex. It's already a really good polisher, the Rupes is just the new thing right now. Not that there's anything wrong with the Rupes but, I don't think I'd plunk that kind of cash down unless I was making it back quickly doing details. Just my 2c.
 
I respectfully disagree, Vikas. I think that tools and chemicals CAN make you a better detailer. The right machine, the right product can make a difference, even if you are just pretty good. I can speak to this, as I purchased a new polisher a couple of years ago and it took my detailing up a notch. I was able to correct more in less time. Chemicals too. The right compound can make you a more effective detailer.

He might be OCD, but what's wrong with that? I am too, and so are a lot of people. My car needs to look good...period. Nothing wrong with that at all. Some are happy with a simple wax, others like Critic and I really put a lot of time into detailing our daily drivers. Not a thing wrong with that.

The Rupes are nice polishers, for sure. If you have a Flex, it might not be worth it, however. The Flex is a good machine!
 
This is not Bob is The Wax Guy! There are many places on the internet where hardcore detailers hang out. We have only handful professional detailers.

One thing is certain, TheCritic does seem to leap from one extreme end to other e.g. from NuFinish to Rupes.

And yes chemical can make a difference but we all know you don't have to buy the wax from a $1000 crystal jar!
 
Originally Posted By: Vikas


One thing is certain, TheCritic does seem to leap from one extreme end to other e.g. from NuFinish to Rupes.


lol.gif

I only posted the Nufinish thread because I was curious about the hype. I stated very clearly that I had no immediate plans to use it.
 
Originally Posted By: Vikas
This is not Bob is The Wax Guy! There are many places on the internet where hardcore detailers hang out. We have only handful professional detailers.

One thing is certain, TheCritic does seem to leap from one extreme end to other e.g. from NuFinish to Rupes.

And yes chemical can make a difference but we all know you don't have to buy the wax from a $1000 crystal jar!


$1000 that is an insult to Royale owners. It's $8,500. But with free refills for life* The ironic thing is that if you're a professional detailer you don't qualify for the free refills. Who else but a professional catering to uber wealthy clientele would buy Royale?

Anyone who is rich enough to buy this wax no doubt doesn't wax his own car. So I think the marketing scheme is such. You'd have to be rich, buy the wax for yourself and then have the professional wax only your cars with it.

And if you've ever had experience with Zymol's waxes you'd know they honestly don't add that much in terms of looks. It's always about your prep. In my experience NXT 2.0 and Ultimate Wax looks better than my little bottle of Zymol Carbon. And people complain about the longevity of NXT 2.0 and yet it has about the same service life as Carbon, if not a little shorter actually.

But side by side with the proper prep work, I'd still pick Collinite waxes vs NXT or Zymol. The benefit too with Collinite is durability that will easily get me a whole season without rewaxing, even more in reality, but I wax seasonally. I polish yearly with finishing polish. If really necessary I'll compound but that's maybe once or twice in my time of owning a car.

As for a Rupes, I'd still stick with a regular DA. The Rupes' longer stroke may be nice for aggressive correction but if you need aggressive correction there are better tools in my opinion. One that's often overlooked is the Makita BO6040 since it can work in both random orbit AND forced orbit mode like a Flex it's a very versatile tool good for heavy correction and easy finishing. It's my personal favorite, I've sold all my other polishers save for my Porter Cable, Wax Spreader and my Makita rotary.

But all the tools in the world can't replace skill and experience. The reason DA's are so popular is they're basically foolproof. The more you get into the more aggressive machines the more skill it takes. It goes in terms of paint damaging capability in the hands of inexperienced. Wax spreaders, DA polishers, then the specialized ones like the Rupes, Flex and BO6040, then the big bad rotary.

So I'd say get whatever polisher interests you for whatever reason. Learn to get the most out of it and you'll be much happier than just constantly buying equipment and chemicals thinking one of them will be a magic bullet.

The magic bullet isn't the machine or chemicals. It's the guy using them. Because for me even though I can show people how to polish their cars to showroom perfection with expensive equipment and waxes, but if you want that why not just go to Autopia and read up on the weekly posts of people doing exactly that? I particularly find it a point of pride that I can also show how to get 90% there with a dirt cheap wax spreader and OTC polish.
 
Either one is still better than my $50 HF DA polisher! Even that machine can turn out some good results in the hands of a somewhat skilled and determined user, though.

Remember, it's not about the equipment, it's the attitude. Equipment helps a considerable amount, and attitude gets you the rest of the way there.
 
Originally Posted By: qwertydude

But all the tools in the world can't replace skill and experience. The reason DA's are so popular is they're basically foolproof. The more you get into the more aggressive machines the more skill it takes. It goes in terms of paint damaging capability in the hands of inexperienced. Wax spreaders, DA polishers, then the specialized ones like the Rupes, Flex and BO6040, then the big bad rotary.

So I'd say get whatever polisher interests you for whatever reason. Learn to get the most out of it and you'll be much happier than just constantly buying equipment and chemicals thinking one of them will be a magic bullet.

The magic bullet isn't the machine or chemicals. It's the guy using them. Because for me even though I can show people how to polish their cars to showroom perfection with expensive equipment and waxes, but if you want that why not just go to Autopia and read up on the weekly posts of people doing exactly that? I particularly find it a point of pride that I can also show how to get 90% there with a dirt cheap wax spreader and OTC polish.

Thanks. I am getting better with the Flex, but the vibrations are terrible compared to the Rupes 21. Seriously, after a few panels, my hands would start getting numb.

Also, DAs are not quite foolproof - it's quite easy to haze paint with a DA.

With that said, I am always looking to find ways to improve (whether it's through training or improvement), which is why I discuss products as much as I do.
 
Why is Flex vibrating so much? Does it vibrate when NOT pushed on the panel? If it does, then you need to warranty it. If it only does it when pushed against the panel, then possibly it is your technique or the choice of pads/chemical which is causing it.

I mean when you look at the mechanics involved, the basic principle remains the same. Every machine is trying to replicate the "Karate Kid" motion in one form or other.

Even without being there, I can guarantee that your comparison was not a real A/B/A because
- The pads were not the same
- The chemical was not the same
- The car was not the same
- You did not have Flex with you when you tried Rupes

These are the basic requirements for doing a true A/B/A test and you probably missed all of them. Prove me wrong.
 
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Originally Posted By: Vikas
Why is Flex vibrating so much? Does it vibrate when NOT pushed on the panel? If it does, then you need to warranty it. If it only does it when pushed against the panel, then possibly it is your technique or the choice of pads/chemical which is causing it.


The Flex has some amount of vibration by design - but compared to the Rupes, it's a huge difference. There is nothing wrong with my Flex.

Originally Posted By: Vikas
I mean when you look at the mechanics involved, the basic principle remains the same. Every machine is trying to replicate the "Karate Kid" motion in one form or other.


Not at all - the Flex is a forced-rotation DA. The Rupes 21 is not.

Originally Posted By: Vikas
Even without being there, I can guarantee that your comparison was not a real A/B/A because
- The pads were not the same
- The chemical was not the same
- The car was not the same
- You did not have Flex with you when you tried Rupes

These are the basic requirements for doing a true A/B/A test and you probably missed all of them. Prove me wrong.


1) I've used the Flex with a variety of pads - Lake Country Orange, Lake Country White, Lake Country Black, Meg Soft Buff 2.0 Yellow, and most recently, the Uber Green. Of the group, the Flex was most pleasant to use with the Uber green. The Rupes was tested using a Rupes Yellow pad (as recommended by the mfg, no rec exists for the Flex). From a strict NVH standpoint, the Rupes combination was far superior while delivering equal performance.

2) The chemical should not have any effect on how much the Flex vibrates. Like I've said before, performance is not a concern - they're fairly comparable in my experience.

3) The car has no relevance, but the type of panel does.

4) Who cares? The difference between the two was significant enough that I can easily remember the difference.
 
I ordered the Rupes 21. Will report back with my findings. If anyone in the SF Bay Area wants to give it a spin, shoot me a PM.
 
Originally Posted By: Wheelzntoys
Did you get their pads and polishes?
5" backing plate?


I got the 5" backing plate and 4 Rupes pads. I think I'll be using the Meguiars MF finishing pads a lot with D300.
 
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Just got it.
grin.gif


It's one killer machine for sure, now do the washer mod and find something to polish. I remember many, many years back when I got my new Makita rotary, I couldn't wait, decided to compounded and polished my washer and dryer. Best looking washing machine on the block
grin2.gif
 
OK found a car to polish today. I did not polish the entire car, but I gave the hood a quick polish.

All I can say is wow. The machine is incredibly smooth and balanced, and makes polishing a joy compared to the Flex. No vibrations and far easier to control.

I used the Rupes White Pad, HD Polish and the Rupes 21 at speed 4 to remove some light marring from the hood (white Mazda 3). The finish came out excellent.

Lastly, with the 7" Rupes pads and the 21mm throw, I can shave off a significant amount of time. I usually need to split a hood into 4 sections, but now I can do one in 2 or 3.

For now, I think this machine is truly worth the money. The Flex still has its place, but for light to moderate paint correction duties, the Rupes 21 is the best choice IMO.
 
OK, I've had a bit more time with this polisher. Here's what I think so far.

1) NVH is best-in-class, period.

2) 21mm throw can provide a significant amount of cut, so be careful when using it with Meg MF pads…especially those cutting pads. You can do some damage.

3) The Rupes 7" pads are too big/thick for this polisher. As a result, the polisher stalls too easily on curved panels.

4) The 21 works best with the 5" backing plate and good 'ol 5.5" pads. The thinner the pad, the better. B&S pads are great, IMO. While the 5.5" pads do not completely eliminate the stalling issue, it's a significant improvement over the bulky 7" Rupes pads.

5) This machine does finish a bit better than the Flex 3401. Light cutting pad + finishing polish can yield significant defect removal and still finish out great on soft paints.

6) If you're only going to use the 5.5" pad, you may want to consider the Rupes 15 to save a few bucks. The Rupes 15 is a bit smoother on 5.5" pads (b/c it was designed for it) and still provides nearly the same correction ability.

7) It takes longer to break down certain polishes compared to the Flex 3401. For instance, I've noticed that Sonax Perfect Finish takes a bit longer to break down on the Rupes than the Flex.

Overall, I think it is a great tool that has its place on any detailers shelf. While it does not replace the Flex 3401 IMO, it is a very versatile machine that is a pleasure to use.
 
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Originally Posted By: JHZR2
So this gadget is substantially better than the standard PC RO machine?


Yes, they're not even in the same league. Think Corolla vs 5-series.

In fact, I had the opportunity to use a PC 7424xp last weekend, and I was seriously puzzled as to why people even buy those things...
 
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