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#3220886 - 12/18/13 05:09 PM Cranking ? - 25HP Kohler Courage Pro
Bebop367 Offline


Registered: 12/08/06
Posts: 277
Loc: Louisiana
I have a ZT mower with Kohler Courage Pro 25 HP. Model SV830-0012

Does anyone know if this engine has automatic Compression release (ACR)?

It appears not to have ACR by comparing part Diagrams of Camshaft vs. Command model camshaft know to have ACR.

Starter having a time turning the engine over. Fresh Battery with high CCA, Cables seem OK etc. It did turn over and crank at 40F with M1 5w-30. Yesterday with my normal Rotella T5 10w-30 I have to jump start it.

It never been a great starter set up.

Any ideas?

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#3220889 - 12/18/13 05:20 PM Re: Cranking ? - 25HP Kohler Courage Pro [Re: Bebop367]
Ramblejam Offline


Registered: 11/05/13
Posts: 1326
Loc: Kentucky
http://www.kohlerengines.com/onlinecatalog/pdf/sm_32_690_01.pdf

Page 19: "These engines are equipped with an automatic compression release (ACR) mechanism."

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#3220913 - 12/18/13 06:00 PM Re: Cranking ? - 25HP Kohler Courage Pro [Re: Bebop367]
KB2008X Offline


Registered: 06/21/12
Posts: 509
Loc: St. Louis, MO.
Make sure, by removing and wirebrushing, that both ends of each battery cable is making good contact and is oil free. And make sure the surface at which they make contact is clean and oil free, also. Just looking at them isn't enough, take it apart.

Trying to diagnose a starting system issue without doing this simple and free check can be frustrating and perhaps lead to a needless expense. And make sure that the negative cable attaches to the block itself, not the mower frame. If it doesn't, try attaching a heavy duty jumper between the battery and starter to see if that is part of the problem.

Another trouble spot can be oil between the block and the starter itself. Oil is an insulator.
_________________________
04 Town Car 4.6 5w20 FL820S
92 Ram D150 3.9 10w30 MO-090
03 S-10 4.3 5w30 Puro L10111
above on TropArtic Synthetic Blend
10 Toyota Camry - undecided

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#3220942 - 12/18/13 06:46 PM Re: Cranking ? - 25HP Kohler Courage Pro [Re: Ramblejam]
Bebop367 Offline


Registered: 12/08/06
Posts: 277
Loc: Louisiana
Thanks...I looked right over it.....

Going to pull the valve covers and see if ACR is working

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#3220943 - 12/18/13 06:47 PM Re: Cranking ? - 25HP Kohler Courage Pro [Re: KB2008X]
Bebop367 Offline


Registered: 12/08/06
Posts: 277
Loc: Louisiana
I don't know where the negative cable connects......but I sure agree it could be a problem

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#3220960 - 12/18/13 07:12 PM Re: Cranking ? - 25HP Kohler Courage Pro [Re: Bebop367]
bubbatime Online   shocked


Registered: 03/18/08
Posts: 2560
Loc: South Florida
Sometimes when they are hard to crank up the valves need adjusted. Sooner rather than later so that you don't bend/damage some of the valve train.
_________________________
10 Acura TSX 2.4L Havoline Syn 5W20 Fram Ultra
09 Chrysler Town & Country 4.0L Chevron Supreme 10W30
06 GMC Sierra 4.8L QSGB 5W30 Delco PF46

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#3221000 - 12/18/13 07:57 PM Re: Cranking ? - 25HP Kohler Courage Pro [Re: Bebop367]
JTK Offline


Registered: 08/14/03
Posts: 7978
Loc: Buffalo, NY
Has this Courage Pro always cranked over slow? How many hours on it? (maybe a lash adjustment like suggested)

I had a 20hp Courage Pro V-twin on my Cub Z-Force. It always spun over and lit-off fast, but I only had it a few years and ~70hrs or so.
_________________________
2014 Subaru XV Crosstek 2.0L, 5spd, 2013 Dodge Grand Caravan SE (Babe magnet III)

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#3221432 - 12/19/13 09:23 AM Re: Cranking ? - 25HP Kohler Courage Pro [Re: JTK]
Bebop367 Offline


Registered: 12/08/06
Posts: 277
Loc: Louisiana
I have had cranking trouble.
275 hours.

The solenoid went out 2+- yrs. ago
Lube the Bendix so starter engage every time 1 yr. ago.
Always needs a fresh battery to crank well.
I am going to check valve lash and check to see the ACR is working next.
I runs great and has power to burn with the 52" deck.

The starter doesn't appear to be the quality of the Command engines to me.

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#3221548 - 12/19/13 10:59 AM Re: Cranking ? - 25HP Kohler Courage Pro [Re: Bebop367]
Click Offline


Registered: 03/24/04
Posts: 38
Loc: minnesota
I have that exact same engine in my Sears ZTS 50" mower. Never had any issues with starting it at all. Same original battery now for 4 years too. I bring the battery inside in the winters and I use Amsoil 0w-40 4stroke oil and our season is April to mid October and its always started up nicely. I agree to double check grounding points, those can really mess with starting.

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#3221990 - 12/19/13 06:49 PM Re: Cranking ? - 25HP Kohler Courage Pro [Re: Click]
Bebop367 Offline


Registered: 12/08/06
Posts: 277
Loc: Louisiana
Well she crank today with temps. up.

Valve lash is off. They were .008" to .012" (spec. .04" to .006"). Will adjust to spec.

Rolling engine by hand and watching valves either it has no ACR or the ACR is NOT working (ouch).

All wires and grounds were clean. I going to double check all wires ASAP.

Camshaft diagram in Service manual and online part suppliers don't show ACR mechanism attached camshaft.

At http://www.centraloutdoorpower.com/ I look-up camshaft parts for several different engines for comparison. Some camshafts show the ACR mechanism attached to camshaft others including my engine show plain looking camshaft. I don't know at this point what to think.

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#3222054 - 12/19/13 08:07 PM Re: Cranking ? - 25HP Kohler Courage Pro [Re: Bebop367]
JTK Offline


Registered: 08/14/03
Posts: 7978
Loc: Buffalo, NY
Man you're right about no info on the Courage V-twin ACR system. I can only find some info on the Command series system, but obviously the Command is different.

Maybe try a compression test. Full compression would indicate no automatic compression release I'd think.


Edited by JTK (12/19/13 08:08 PM)
_________________________
2014 Subaru XV Crosstek 2.0L, 5spd, 2013 Dodge Grand Caravan SE (Babe magnet III)

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#3222548 - 12/20/13 10:39 AM Re: Cranking ? - 25HP Kohler Courage Pro [Re: JTK]
Bebop367 Offline


Registered: 12/08/06
Posts: 277
Loc: Louisiana
Thanks Guys!

After adjusting valve lash to spec. it cranked up better than it ever has.
Valve lash was most likey wrong from factory.....China I guess.....

I will let you know how it does in cold weather (well Louisiana cold)later.

Thanks again

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#3222571 - 12/20/13 11:02 AM Re: Cranking ? - 25HP Kohler Courage Pro [Re: Bebop367]
JTK Offline


Registered: 08/14/03
Posts: 7978
Loc: Buffalo, NY
Good to hear!

These Courage series engines are made in the US. Only the push-mower Courages are "Chondas".

FWIW, I used to run 15w40 in my 20hp Courage V-twin, which was actually a Cub manual recommendation at the time. She lit off with authority, even with that in the sump, so my valve lash must have been good!

FWIW, I've never heard of a single Courage V-twin failure. Good engines. The single cyl had issues early on with crankcase bolts loosening up, etc. Not sure if those got better or not.
_________________________
2014 Subaru XV Crosstek 2.0L, 5spd, 2013 Dodge Grand Caravan SE (Babe magnet III)

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#3222643 - 12/20/13 12:22 PM Re: Cranking ? - 25HP Kohler Courage Pro [Re: Bebop367]
Bebop367 Offline


Registered: 12/08/06
Posts: 277
Loc: Louisiana
I plan to go back to the Rotella T5 10w-30 come spring.
Although the M1 5w-30 would most likely be fine for the Hot summer.

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#3338484 - 04/10/14 08:01 AM Re: Cranking ? - 25HP Kohler Courage Pro [Re: Bebop367]
Bebop367 Offline


Registered: 12/08/06
Posts: 277
Loc: Louisiana
Well I finally got to the true starting problem.
Adjusting valves and checking all connection it started better and then had starting trouble again.

It's was poor grounding of the solenoid. Solenoid grounds with 2 very small tapped screws into the frame.
I think vibration etc. it didn't ground very good.

I ran a 6 gauge ground wire from solenoid to battery.....Never started like that before.

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