Post bailout, who came out on top?

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Originally Posted By: RamFan
My vote, Chrysler. GM has done great with the Cruze, 'Vette, SS, Regal, and ATS. But I think they've fallen short on evolving the looks of their cars, technology in their cars, and performance of their vehicles. Chrysler I think has by far the most attractive lineup.....

My opinion is complete opposite. I have been a loyal Dodge owner for longtime, but they are not progressing with new technologies. In fact I rented a Dodge Avenger twice, and I thought it felt inferior to my old 97 model. (Felt cheap & plasticy & no exciting tech under the hood.) That's why I bought my first Honda..... they have a hybrid and Dodge does not. I watched a Dart review and I was like, "Meh." Just an upgraded Neon or Stratus. Not interesting to me

Chevrolet is the car company that I am watching:
- unlimited range EV (Volt)
- CruzeEco to save gasoline
- Cruze Diesel to challenge the idea "Americans don't like oil burners"

Watching Chevy reviews is far more interesting for me..... I don't even bother with Dodge or Chrysler reviews.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
General Motors still wants my money...

http://www.news.com.au/technology/design...h-1226779214737

"hand over da money or da worker gets it !!!" has been GMs motto for ages downunder (and Ford, and Chrysler, and Mitsubishi)

The taxpayer could have paid every worker $200k severance pay over the last few years, and still had the same end result...


Actually a much better result. Odds are a lot of that would have been spent right into the economy. "Bottom up" is always better than "top down" stimuli. Imagine if instead of spending 600+ million for a [censored] healthcare website that won't even be finished for ages we had simply sent each person in America a check for 2 million dollars!

Might have been quite significant...
 
Originally Posted By: blackman777
I'm hearing Alex jones say GM used bailout/taxpayer money to close and relocate factories overseas. If true that's certainly not good


Absolutely agreed. As is typical when the crony capitalism kicks in. GM should have been left to die. Investors would have quickly reorganized it into several smaller companies, who knows where that could have gone?

It was all a payback to the unions...
 
Did Fox News forget to mention that GM is investing 1.3 billion in US plants and will be hiring thousands? Chrysler too is going like crazy.

Amazing how good news is spun into a negative here on BITOG for purely political reasons.
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: blackman777
I'm hearing Alex jones say GM used bailout/taxpayer money to close and relocate factories overseas. If true that's certainly not good


Absolutely agreed. As is typical when the crony capitalism kicks in. GM should have been left to die. Investors would have quickly reorganized it into several smaller companies, who knows where that could have gone?

It was all a payback to the unions...


The unions so far as I know, were the only private lenders willing to put their money in the company, at least without a loan guarantee. I don't understand why the only people to put private money into GM are villified, with Fiat and its 16% debt to buy Chrysler right behind. In the meantime, we practically turn a firehose of federal money loose on the financial industry for six straight years with no questions asked.

There was no private financing available because of the financial collapse. Even Mitt Romney in his "Let General Motors go Bankrupt" article argued that the federal government should back all warranty expense for GM and guarantee the loans to private investors. (i.e. Mitt Romney). Talk about crony capitalism.

I expect I would have paid an extra $1,000 or more likely $2,000 for my Ford without competition from GM on the scene.


Who came out ahead? I would say Michigan, where unemployment dropped five percent. Second would be Fiat. No one would have predicted that the merger would have worked as well as it has. U.S. profits have supported Fiat which continues to operate in a more difficult environment in Europe. Third would be Ford, which reaped the benefit of being the last man standing when the collapse came.

I'm very glad we bailed out GM, and I've never owned a GM car in my life.
 
Yeah but at what cost? If it costs $1 million to save a $50,000/year job, that's bad financing. ALSO it required printing trillions of dollars, which devalues every dollar already circulating (your savings are worth less). The dollar is only worth 1/95th what it was when the Fed was created, and it just keeps dropping, because they keep printing more of them.

Sorry but I don't support the redistribution of wealth from the poor (that's us) to the rich (megacorps & corporate officers). Or the slow destruction of the dollar/personal savings.

Nobody should have been bailed out.
 
Originally Posted By: blackman777
Yeah but at what cost? If it costs $1 million to save a $50,000/year job, that's bad financing. ALSO it required printing trillions of dollars, which devalues every dollar already circulating (your savings are worth less). The dollar is only worth 1/95th what it was when the Fed was created, and it just keeps dropping, because they keep printing more of them.

Sorry but I don't support the redistribution of wealth from the poor (that's us) to the rich (megacorps & corporate officers). Or the slow destruction of the dollar/personal savings.

Nobody should have been bailed out.


I'd say the effect on the economy has been excellent, starting with the 5% drop in the Michigan unemployment rate, and probably similar effects throughout the upper midwest. Then there is the ripple effect across the entire economy. We've quietly been undergoing an export boom, with many of those exports being from those areas.

More directly, the bailouts saved a million jobs, at a time when an increase in monthly employment in the 200K range is thought to be excellent. GM has generated $30 billion in profits during that time, and invested over $10 billion in the U.S. economy. While GM was not directly profitable to the government, its loss loss was small and represented about three weeks worth of our wars when they were going full tilt. Chrysler was a very small loss to the government.

Remember, its pure dumb luck that Ford was still standing. They had mortgaged everything to raise cash at the time of crash. Not a normal circumstance. Normally they would have been swept away too, with no domestic auto industry left, save for some transplants.
 
Honda, Toyota, and others would still be supplying domestic-built cars, so that last statement is not accurate. Also I'm not really convinced Ford, GM, et al are truly American anymore..... not when half their cars are foreign parts, and they have more employees in foreign lands than U.S. workers.

F, GM, etc are multinational companies with no allegiance to any one country.

Also my "trillions" was referring to the complete bailout across the whole U.S. which blew a lot of taxpayer cash. (Plus the other negative effects I mentioned: Inflation, devaluing of your savings, etc.) Some of that cash also was used to bailout European companies or banks, which makes no sense to me. Why should Americans bail-out foreign companies/banks?
 
Jim, take a close look at Michigan again. Then let me know how well you think those "top down" policies work.

They simply don't.

You might also want to talk to the Delphi folks who were completely left out to die in the cold!

Political payola, and with borrowed money!
 
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Originally Posted By: Nayov
Did Fox News forget to mention that GM is investing 1.3 billion in US plants and will be hiring thousands? Chrysler too is going like crazy.

Amazing how good news is spun into a negative here on BITOG for purely political reasons.


Did MSNBC forget to mention it was borrowed money? Or perhaps that Detroit is dead, bankrupted beyond belief or salvation? Or how we spent MILLIONS per job 'created'?

Absolutely amazing how seriously poor policy is spun around here into something "positive".
 
The USA needs to change its trade policies so that it benefits this country. GM is part to blame, but this would have never happened if big money influence was not in our gov't.
 
I don't watch either FOX or NBC..... both heavily biased. Infowars.com is the best news source..... a bit extremist but at least nothing is censored, like how FOX and NBC censor news they don't want you to hear. (For example did you know the last 3 gunshooters were NOT "rightwing conservatives"? And yet the news media lets you think they were.) (The most-recent was a strongly devout & loyal Obama democrat. i.e. leftwing extremist.)

CEO says "no repayment" because He says the taxpayers took a risk like any other investor. Yeah except we had no choice in the decision. Most of us would have said "no" rather than take a loss.
 
^^^Absolutely agreed. Too many folks here simply eat what they are fed.

Our media are just as bad for what is omitted as for what is reported with their favorite slant.

IMO no single source is 'the one', you need to get out there and see 'em all...
 
Originally Posted By: 4ever4d
The unions!


lol
crazy.gif
 
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