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#3215143 - 12/13/13 04:27 AM Re: Oil in medium size 4 cycle outboards? [Re: callbay]
rokwldr Offline


Registered: 01/22/12
Posts: 57
Loc: dania bch, fl USA
I am using NAPA 15-40 universal fleet oil in my Yamaha f115 with no problem. It is a diesel rated oil, plenty of zinc, and combats fuel dulition. Cost is about 3.50 a qt on the high side. Have done an analisis at Blackstone at 50 hrs twice, just fine. I change at 50 hrs because that is a year for me. This engine lives at 5 to 5500 rpm 80% of the time.

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#3218466 - 12/16/13 01:04 PM Re: Oil in medium size 4 cycle outboards? [Re: sr17]
Phishin Offline


Registered: 05/01/12
Posts: 2032
Loc: Indiana
Originally Posted By: sr17
I still would very much like to know if the marine oil is really that much better.


There is NOTHING special about FC-W rated oils. The "corrosion" test they have to pass is so simple and easy....any oily substance could pass the test required for FC-W approval....from cooking spray (Pam) to engine oil to ear wax.

And what can an engine oil to do combat fuel dilution? Nothing. Can an oil magically make fuel disappear? I don't care what kind of "additive" you have. The only thing that's gonna get rid of fuel in your oil is running it WOT for a long run.

My two brothers and I have a fleet of 6 boats. From a fully restored 1968 18' Starcarft to 36' Tiara. Outboards and inboards. We have about $250,000 wrapped up into boats. I take care of them all, which includes these 4-stroke outboards: 2006 Yamaha 115HP, 2010 Suzuki 225, and Mercury 250.

I would never put Yamalube or Mercruiser oil in any of these engines. NEVER. They all get the same oil: Rotella T6 5w40. We run our boats when it's below freezing for at least a month. Air temps are usually -10 to 20 degrees F for the last few weeks until Lake St. Clair finally freezes over. This is the oil we run in our 4-stroke outboards. The big block chevy's in the Tiara run on dino 15w40.

You gotta be uneducated or scared to run OEM oil in your outboards...those are the only two reasons I could think anyone would. You don't know any better....or you're afraid you're gonna screw something up if you don't run what the dealer told you to run.


Edited by Phishin (12/16/13 01:05 PM)
_________________________
2010 Accord-LX K24: PU 5w30
2009 Subaru Forester 2.5X: M1 TDT
1990 Chevy K1500 350TBI: Frankenbrew
2008 Ruckus 50ccGET: M1R Mix

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#3219536 - 12/17/13 11:31 AM Re: Oil in medium size 4 cycle outboards? [Re: callbay]
Doc_Stressor Offline


Registered: 03/31/12
Posts: 5
Loc: Homosassa, FL
You guys are missing the major points for FC-W rated oils.

Modern automotive oils rated at 30 weight or below are generally blended at the bottom of their viscosity range for fuel efficiency. So even a little fuel dilution will bring the oil below the recommended viscosity rating. To meet FC-W specs, the oil must be blended to a higher viscosity. This will buffer the effects of fuel dilution up to a point.

Automotive oils rated at 30 weight or less must conform to low limits for phosphate content in order to protect catalytic converters. This limits the amount of ZDDP additive that can be used. This is fine for cars, which have roller type tappets. However, all 4-stroke outboards uses sliding tappets, which require higher levels of ZDDP (or an equivalent anti-wear additive)for optimal protection. Every FC-W oil analysis I've seen has shown >1000 ppm phosphate, which indicates a strong dose of ZDDP.

Most any diesel rated oil and likely many xW-40 weight automotive oils would likely meet or exceed FC-W standards. Many People have had good results running diesel oils in 4-stroke outboards.

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#3221330 - 12/19/13 07:40 AM Re: Oil in medium size 4 cycle outboards? [Re: Doc_Stressor]
Ramblejam Offline


Registered: 11/05/13
Posts: 2215
Loc: Kentucky
Originally Posted By: Doc_Stressor
You guys are missing the major points for FC-W rated oils.

Modern automotive oils rated at 30 weight or below are generally blended at the bottom of their viscosity range for fuel efficiency. So even a little fuel dilution will bring the oil below the recommended viscosity rating. To meet FC-W specs, the oil must be blended to a higher viscosity. This will buffer the effects of fuel dilution up to a point.


Can you show us anything where the NMMA stipulates a higher viscosity for FC-W approval?

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#3222597 - 12/20/13 11:28 AM Re: Oil in medium size 4 cycle outboards? [Re: callbay]
Doc_Stressor Offline


Registered: 03/31/12
Posts: 5
Loc: Homosassa, FL
HTHS viscosity must be 3.3 at a minimum. Most automotive 30 weight oils are closer to 3.0. See page 21.

http://www.nmma.org/assets/cabinets/Cabinet456/FCW_Product_Approval_System.pdf

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#3222624 - 12/20/13 11:53 AM Re: Oil in medium size 4 cycle outboards? [Re: Doc_Stressor]
Ramblejam Offline


Registered: 11/05/13
Posts: 2215
Loc: Kentucky
Originally Posted By: Doc_Stressor
HTHS viscosity must be 3.3 at a minimum. Most automotive 30 weight oils are closer to 3.0. See page 21.


Yes, but that's different than what you stated earlier ("to meet FC-W specs, the oil must be blended to a higher viscosity"). Know what meets the FC-W specification? Pennzoil Ultra 10w-30, with a HT/HS of 3.3cP that comes in at 10.5cSt @ 100C.


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#3223628 - 12/21/13 12:18 PM Re: Oil in medium size 4 cycle outboards? [Re: Ramblejam]
Doc_Stressor Offline


Registered: 03/31/12
Posts: 5
Loc: Homosassa, FL
There are several automotive oils that would meet the FC-W standard for film strength. But most 30 weights do not. This would only be a factor in engines where fuel dilution is a problem. Some engines make oil, others do not.

But even a good oil like PU likely doesn't have the mixed boundary lubrication protection recommended for sliding tappets. Most high performance cam manufacturers recommend at least 1100 ppm zinc/phosphorous as ZDDP. Any diesel rated oil would meet this spec.

At least with FC-W rated oils, you know that what you're using meets the manufactures specs.

Lot of folks run automotive oil in 4 stroke outboards without problems. In most cases, difference in mean time before failure would only become apparent after thousands of hours. Outboards rarely fail from oil related wear issues. Most eventually fail from internal corrosion problems or fuel related issues that cause cylinders to run lean. Interestingly, these type of failures are often the result of infrequent usage rather than running time.

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#3237134 - 01/04/14 12:37 PM Re: Oil in medium size 4 cycle outboards? [Re: Doc_Stressor]
OVERKILL Online   content


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 31515
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Doc_Stressor

But even a good oil like PU likely doesn't have the mixed boundary lubrication protection recommended for sliding tappets. Most high performance cam manufacturers recommend at least 1100 ppm zinc/phosphorous as ZDDP. Any diesel rated oil would meet this spec


There are plenty of cars still using sliding tappets. Ford Focus, many Honda and Toyota models....etc.

None of these requires a special oil.

shrug
_________________________
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#3262985 - 01/28/14 06:28 PM Re: Oil in medium size 4 cycle outboards? [Re: callbay]
Tuffy1760 Offline


Registered: 10/25/12
Posts: 491
Loc: upstate NY mohawk valley
In a perfect world with a good wallet, i would use AMS or RP marine oil. If I had an older motor, I would play around with different oils... I would also be bored some and change the oil alot... I've used auto gear lube for years in my lower units, no problems.
My Friend hss a 250 SHO on his bassboat and he uses auto oil, no problems...
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#3300541 - 03/03/14 06:31 PM Re: Oil in medium size 4 cycle outboards? [Re: callbay]
rokwldr Offline


Registered: 01/22/12
Posts: 57
Loc: dania bch, fl USA
As I said I have been using NAPA 15-40 diesel oil in a Yamaha 115, with no issues at all. Had my oil get a little dilution, noticed the dipstick over the high mark, after a 45 min run at 5 grand everything was fine. That is the only time it has ever done that. I am considering going to Mobil 1 5-40 diesel not sure which one, there are two. I was worried about the 5 part but Yamaha's new syn is a 5-30. They say it can be used in all their engines. No thanks at $10-12 a qt.

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