Recent Topics
1997 Gand Marquis
by fordman65
02/11/16 03:50 AM
Better micron rating than a 40u for a 4967/14476?
by ziggy
02/11/16 02:59 AM
Weapon Shield
by Ws6
02/11/16 12:33 AM
Amsoil Euro 5W-40 92Benz 190E 2.3L 8V 3889 miles
by IllinoisSparky
02/10/16 09:11 PM
Which oil?
by SEMI_287
02/10/16 09:05 PM
Fluid change on my 2015 Accord
by dan_erickson
02/10/16 08:56 PM
Upgrading brakes
by ram_man
02/10/16 08:49 PM
Rear end sounds like an airplane
by mclasser
02/10/16 07:49 PM
GDI engine's and motor oils
by gabriel9766
02/10/16 07:42 PM
Old toyota Need shocks?
by ceast
02/10/16 07:27 PM
How to do a clean install
by Oldmoparguy1
02/10/16 07:21 PM
Troy Bilt Pony
by OSUFan86
02/10/16 06:43 PM
Newest Members
BlueKelah, threeeightteen, TOADchunks, Longo9596, Roadrunner77z
56889 Registered Users
Who's Online
25 registered (fc31964, dlundblad, Char Baby, car51, 5 invisible), 437 Guests and 202 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
56889 Members
66 Forums
244533 Topics
3982484 Posts

Max Online: 2862 @ 07/07/14 03:10 PM
Donate to BITOG
Topic Options
#3211762 - 12/09/13 09:55 PM Any value in getting TBN + TAN of trans oil?
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 12725
Loc: Chicago, IL
I am getting my car's dual-clutch fluid changed this Friday. The factory fill will have around 52k on the clock; it is Pentosin FFL-4, and is actually very similar to a Dexron/Mercon ATF, but with GL-4 protection.

Is there any value in getting the TBN and/or TAN measured?

FWIW, BMW classifies it as a lifetime fluid (yeah right).
_________________________
2011.5 BMW M3 saloon ZCP
Castrol Edge Professional TWS 10w60 + Mahle OX 254D3

Top
#3211771 - 12/09/13 10:04 PM Re: Any value in getting TBN + TAN of trans oil? [Re: dparm]
chubbs1 Offline


Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 4574
Loc: Merritt Island FL, USA
It would be nice to see how this "lifetime" fluid is holding up and TBN/TAN would be one of the only reasonable ways to check that. It is your money so it is easy for me to say. You are changing it anyway so it doesnt really benefit you to fork out the extra money.
_________________________
'12 Charger SXT
QSUD 5w30 OEM filter

'12 Charger SXT
Edge FST EP 5w30 OEM (Mine;)

'11 Hyundai Sonata GLS
QSUD 5w20 OEM Filter


Top
#3211792 - 12/09/13 10:30 PM Re: Any value in getting TBN + TAN of trans oil? [Re: dparm]
Raybo Offline


Registered: 02/14/09
Posts: 62
Loc: Clearwater ,Florida
Huge value. TAN is very important to see how hard the trans is on the fluid. Tell's you exactly how long that type fluid should stay in the trans before it gets acidic.

I like and have used many times:

wearcheck.com

There the big boys in the UOA business and TAN is always included in there UOA. $25.

Top
#3211857 - 12/09/13 11:50 PM Re: Any value in getting TBN + TAN of trans oil? [Re: dparm]
daves87rs Offline


Registered: 02/23/09
Posts: 15260
Loc: Michigan
Would be good to learn....
_________________________
“Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

Top
#3212005 - 12/10/13 07:23 AM Re: Any value in getting TBN + TAN of trans oil? [Re: dparm]
Donald Offline


Registered: 03/21/04
Posts: 16073
Loc: Upstate NY
You should get TAN for non engine lubricants.

Its included with tests from Polaris that are around $18.50 when you buy 10.
_________________________
2015 Subaru Forester 2.5 engine/CVT PP & M1
2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo 4.0 - PP & M1
1999 Dodge Ram 2500 w/Cummins - Rotella T6 & M1


Top
#3212011 - 12/10/13 07:27 AM Re: Any value in getting TBN + TAN of trans oil? [Re: dparm]
btanchors Offline


Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 675
Loc: Herndon, VA
TAN would be very valuable, but TBN not valuable. The reason is that a transmission is a "closed" environment. In an engine, one of the oil's jobs is to neutralize the acids that form as a result of combustion gasses "leaking" past piston rings into the oil. In a transmission or differential, the lubricant does not have this function as nothing "leaks in" that causes acid to form - so the lubricant doesn't need to neutralize acids.

However, if a lubricant is stressed due to being overheated, its acid level will rise. This is what TAN is designed to indicate.

So - you want TAN, but not TBN. TBN would be a waste of money.

Others more knowledgeable than I - did I get this right? I think I am on target but I defer to the experts out there...

Top
#3213567 - 12/11/13 03:37 PM Re: Any value in getting TBN + TAN of trans oil? [Re: dparm]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 16691
Loc: Iowegia - USA
Originally Posted By: dparm
I am getting my car's dual-clutch fluid changed this Friday. The factory fill will have around 52k on the clock; it is Pentosin FFL-4, and is actually very similar to a Dexron/Mercon ATF, but with GL-4 protection.

Is there any value in getting the TBN and/or TAN measured?

FWIW, BMW classifies it as a lifetime fluid (yeah right).


Being it is factory fluid left in that long, I doubt you are going to discover anything useful, except once you see the analysis, you may want to change the OCI.

For FF fluids, I would want to compare the UOA against the VOA in terms of changes in viscosity.
_________________________
Plan: Drink coffee, be awesome, and ignore negativity. smile

Top
#3213727 - 12/11/13 06:46 PM Re: Any value in getting TBN + TAN of trans oil? [Re: MolaKule]
martinq Offline


Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 1031
Loc: ON, Canada
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Being it is factory fluid left in that long, I doubt you are going to discover anything useful, except once you see the analysis, you may want to change the OCI.

For FF fluids, I would want to compare the UOA against the VOA in terms of changes in viscosity.

+1 and +1

Can you get a VOA while you're at it?

Top
#3214335 - 12/12/13 10:08 AM Re: Any value in getting TBN + TAN of trans oil? [Re: martinq]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 12725
Loc: Chicago, IL
Originally Posted By: martinq
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Being it is factory fluid left in that long, I doubt you are going to discover anything useful, except once you see the analysis, you may want to change the OCI.

For FF fluids, I would want to compare the UOA against the VOA in terms of changes in viscosity.

+1 and +1

Can you get a VOA while you're at it?


I don't have a bottle of FFL-4. It's expensive stuff ($25/L+). I'll dig around and see if anyone has already done a VOA.
_________________________
2011.5 BMW M3 saloon ZCP
Castrol Edge Professional TWS 10w60 + Mahle OX 254D3

Top
#3215937 - 12/13/13 08:57 PM Re: Any value in getting TBN + TAN of trans oil? [Re: dparm]
bruce381 Offline


Registered: 06/23/05
Posts: 3327
Loc: Millbrae, CA
TAN and TBN can be used in ATF but you must have a base line to work from

Top