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#3212012 - 12/10/13 07:30 AM Re: Are my habits harmful to this CVT? [Re: gr8gatzby]
The_Eric Online   content


Registered: 03/31/10
Posts: 3155
Loc: Iowa
Originally Posted By: gr8gatzby
Quote:
a. The injectors shut off in many autos while engine-braking downhill;


Engine braking is not a factor when revving at idle speeds

Quote:
b. The engine is braking, so you don't need to use your actual brakes to maintain downhill speed;


Engine braking should only be used as a method of deceleration in emergencies. Engines are more expensive to replace than brake pads.

Quote:
c. If an emergency arises, you have the vehicle in gear to provide acceleration.


I agree, that's why I only shift into neutral on a downslope when not surrounded by traffic, and risk is at an absolute minimum.


I think it's already been established that you're not gaining anything to take it out of gear while coasting and if you think that you are going to wear an engine out coasting down some random hill at 2000 rpm, then you have some pretty serious misconceptions about engines. That engine will be completely fine and more than likely outlast the car, barring some fluke failure. Stop worrying and splitting hairs, life is too short for trivial things like this and it won't gain you anything that you be able to quantify anyway.
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#3212015 - 12/10/13 07:34 AM Re: Are my habits harmful to this CVT? [Re: The_Eric]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 20771
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: The_Eric

I think it's already been established that you're not gaining anything to take it out of gear while coasting and if you think that you are going to wear an engine out coasting down some random hill at 2000 rpm, then you have some pretty serious misconceptions about engines. That engine will be completely fine and more than likely outlast the car, barring some fluke failure. Stop worrying and splitting hairs, life is too short for trivial things like this and it won't gain you anything that you be able to quantify anyway.


A little engine breaking is actually good for the engine. It can help keep the rings free from sticking.
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#3212046 - 12/10/13 08:32 AM Re: Are my habits harmful to this CVT? [Re: gr8gatzby]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 12374
Loc: Chicago, IL
Unsafe to put it in neutral, actually. If you need to take evasive action, you don't want the car out of gear. Also puts unnecessary wear and tear on the trans.
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#3212075 - 12/10/13 08:55 AM Re: Are my habits harmful to this CVT? [Re: gr8gatzby]
bigjl Online   content


Registered: 09/06/12
Posts: 1672
Loc: London, England
Originally Posted By: gr8gatzby
Quote:
a. The injectors shut off in many autos while engine-braking downhill;


Engine braking is not a factor when revving at idle speeds

Quote:
b. The engine is braking, so you don't need to use your actual brakes to maintain downhill speed;


Engine braking should only be used as a method of deceleration in emergencies. Engines are more expensive to replace than brake pads.

Quote:
c. If an emergency arises, you have the vehicle in gear to provide acceleration.


I agree, that's why I only shift into neutral on a downslope when not surrounded by traffic, and risk is at an absolute minimum.


Did you say you were an engineer?

I know nobody that would do as you suggest or even consider it a sensible course of action

The vehicle was engineered to run as it does when coasting down a hill

That is why it does it.

Or are you saying the engineers involved don't know what they are doing?
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#3212082 - 12/10/13 09:00 AM Re: Are my habits harmful to this CVT? [Re: gr8gatzby]
supton Offline


Registered: 11/09/08
Posts: 4283
Loc: NH
DBW, right? In engine over-run it likely isn't injecting any fuel, and it's possible that it's not pulling air over a closed throttle plate either. If it feels like it coasts without dragging then I'm not sure I'd worry about it.
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#3212087 - 12/10/13 09:01 AM Re: Are my habits harmful to this CVT? [Re: bigjl]
gr8gatzby Offline


Registered: 11/22/05
Posts: 583
Loc: Charlotte, NC
Originally Posted By: bigjl
Originally Posted By: gr8gatzby
Quote:
a. The injectors shut off in many autos while engine-braking downhill;


Engine braking is not a factor when revving at idle speeds

Quote:
b. The engine is braking, so you don't need to use your actual brakes to maintain downhill speed;


Engine braking should only be used as a method of deceleration in emergencies. Engines are more expensive to replace than brake pads.

Quote:
c. If an emergency arises, you have the vehicle in gear to provide acceleration.


I agree, that's why I only shift into neutral on a downslope when not surrounded by traffic, and risk is at an absolute minimum.


Did you say you were an engineer?

I know nobody that would do as you suggest or even consider it a sensible course of action

The vehicle was engineered to run as it does when coasting down a hill

That is why it does it.

Or are you saying the engineers involved don't know what they are doing?


I am saying the transmission is inherently flawed if it revs at 2k rpm when on a downward slope. As to whether the engineers know what they are doing is anyone's guess. I've seen this behavior in other CVTs, so I assume that it is an engineering obstacle inherent to the CVT design that has yet to be overcome.
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#3212125 - 12/10/13 09:36 AM Re: Are my habits harmful to this CVT? [Re: gr8gatzby]
mcrn Online   content


Registered: 11/30/05
Posts: 2351
Loc: FL
Doesn't this put more wear on the transmission and possibly engine mounts?

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#3212159 - 12/10/13 10:17 AM Re: Are my habits harmful to this CVT? [Re: gr8gatzby]
Rolla07 Offline


Registered: 11/05/11
Posts: 1620
Loc: MTL, CANADA
Id figure there is no true benefit to it. If your foot is off the gas pedal, I doubt there is much difference whether its in neutral or drive. So why bother doing it?
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#3212197 - 12/10/13 10:46 AM Re: Are my habits harmful to this CVT? [Re: gr8gatzby]
gathermewool Offline


Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 3441
Loc: CT
Originally Posted By: gr8gatzby
Quote:
a. The injectors shut off in many autos while engine-braking downhill;


Engine braking is not a factor when revving at idle speeds

Quote:
b. The engine is braking, so you don't need to use your actual brakes to maintain downhill speed;


Engine braking should only be used as a method of deceleration in emergencies. Engines are more expensive to replace than brake pads.

Quote:
c. If an emergency arises, you have the vehicle in gear to provide acceleration.


I agree, that's why I only shift into neutral on a downslope when not surrounded by traffic, and risk is at an absolute minimum.


a. Exactly, so why idle at 0.3 gph fuel burn rate when you can engine-brake at 0.000000 gph? I don't get your logic.

b. Engine braking should be used as often as possible; it does no harm to your engine, and the high vacuum is usually seen as helpful during break-in.

c. See above comments
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#3212203 - 12/10/13 10:51 AM Re: Are my habits harmful to this CVT? [Re: eljefino]
Vikas Offline


Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 7880
Loc: NorthEast
Originally Posted By: eljefino
You've made up your mind! Go for it.
why don't other participants here understand this simple concept? I believe I am the one who owns the patent on this though :-)

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#3212204 - 12/10/13 10:52 AM Re: Are my habits harmful to this CVT? [Re: gr8gatzby]
gathermewool Offline


Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 3441
Loc: CT
Also, engine braking often is how I was able to get mixed to highway mpg in my previous vehicle, a WRX STI. Every night after work, I keep it in second gear, rev up to 3k RPM and coast down the hill until I turn into my condo complex; I do the same when coming off the bridge that ends on a big downhill, off-ramp, and an always-red stop light (I rev-match and shift to third and engine-brake for a good 30 seconds) These are only minor examples, but for the time that I'm engine-braking, I'm burning zero fuel.
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#3212215 - 12/10/13 11:01 AM Re: Are my habits harmful to this CVT? [Re: gr8gatzby]
JTK Offline


Registered: 08/14/03
Posts: 7176
Loc: Buffalo, NY
I really like ATs with grade-logic. It should only come into play when accelerating with your foot off the go-pedal and a lot of them will disable if they have a "sport mode" button. My 2002 Isuzu Rodeo had this (4L30E trans) and my 2008 Honda Odyssey had it. IIRC, the Ody would only kick down if you were picking up speed on the down-hill and apply the brakes.

FWIW, the CVT drivetrain on my 2012 Subaru Legacy offers noticeable compression braking when you let off the gas. I like it.

OTOH, the 6spd in our new Dodge Grand Caravan will coast on forever. No slowing down unless you brake.


Edited by JTK (12/10/13 11:02 AM)
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#3212249 - 12/10/13 11:36 AM Re: Are my habits harmful to this CVT? [Re: gr8gatzby]
Kuato Offline


Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2873
Loc: Northeastern MT
Wait, this is your Mom's car, right? If she doesn't care (or even notice!) then no worries.

And since you hate cvt transmissions, avoid driving and all is well.
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#3212365 - 12/10/13 01:41 PM Re: Are my habits harmful to this CVT? [Re: gr8gatzby]
CBR.worm Offline


Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 1390
Loc: Jupiter, Fl
BTW, assuming your mom lives in the same state that you do, it is illegal to coast there as well. I got a ticket coasting down a hill in NC (with a manual tranny). I don't remember the exact wording of the ticket - it was pretty vague but apparently illegal.
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#3212379 - 12/10/13 01:50 PM Re: Are my habits harmful to this CVT? [Re: gr8gatzby]
gr8gatzby Offline


Registered: 11/22/05
Posts: 583
Loc: Charlotte, NC
You got a ticket for speeding, or for coasting in neutral? How would a cop know if a vehicle is in neutral in either transmission?
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